Give It A Rest, Paul Williams is NOT a "Slick" Fighter

Just because Williams got knocked the **** out by Martinez (who happens to be a pretty slick fighter) does not in any way disprove the whole theory brought forward by Hopkins and others that Pacquiao wont fight a Slick African American fighter, nor does it give any reason why he still shouldn't. First of all Paul Willams got knocked out by Sergio Martinez not by Manny Pacquiao. Second of all just because Paul Williams is African American doesn't automatically make him a the "Slick African American style fighter" that these people were referring to. There are guys from different races that now fight in this style though most still happen to be African American as the style originated with them, but many African Americans do not fight in this slick style. Third, just because Williams (who by the way does NOT fight in a "Slick" style) got K.O'd by Martinez, does not in any way make an excuse for Pac not to fight a slick African American style fighter. Let's just say for the sake of argument that Williams was a slick style fighter, how in any way would that excuse Pacquiao from fighting a guy like that when Martinez was the one to beat him not Pacquiao? Slick fighters get beat all the time, but the reality is that they do give many fighters fits, therefore I can see why someone might want to avoid them. Certain fighters can neutralize that slick style and some cannot. Here some examples of a slick style... Muhammad Ali Roy Jones jr. Hector "Macho" Camacho Sugar Ray Leonard Zab Judah Floyd Mayweather jr. Andre Direll Pernell Whitaker Andre Berto And to prove my point, in comparison to style of fighter I listed above, here are some notable African American fighters who DO NOT fight with a slick style... Joe Louis George Foreman Marvin Hagler Tommy Hearns Meldrick Taylor Jermain Taylor Vernon Forest Bernard Hopkins Iran Barkley The point is there's a difference. Just because someone is African American does not mean they fight with this slick style that Pacquiao has been avoiding. Does it make one style better over the other, not at all. but my point is that some guys can handle it, while others would rather avoid it.

Comments (20)

all blacks are slick boxers according to hopkins. I think it's fair to say that you're taking his words out of context.

15y ago

Pullcounter7451

all blacks are slick boxers according to hopkins.

15y ago

El_Prieto

Nobody's bitching over here, just stating the obvious that Paul Williams is not slick, and that him losing does not justify or take a way the fact that Manny Pacquiao has not fought a slick fighter.

15y ago

brick_wall

black fans should get on with the times and let go of their fantasy $hits. if you can't accept that pac is a great fighter then that's your problem. you can hate all you want but it won't diminish whatever pac has accomplished. pac rocked your world...deal with it, just keep it real and stop bitching.

15y ago

deejd

so ur point would be? Baldomir is greater than Pac, correct? because he was able to beat "slick african american" fighter, am i correct? so you're saying Manny CANT beat Zab? Manny beat better than the"slick african american" boxer u were reffering. he beat the likes of Barrera, Morales, Marquez, Cotto, Hatton, CLottey etc etc. and will pretty soon give a beating to Mosley or Berto. where was this "slick african american" boxers when Manny was fighting in 118, 122, 126, 130, 136, 140 and 147? my answer? NOWHERE! because its a BIG MYTH. if they were so "slick" they should be ranked in those weight divisions right? You're stating that just because Baldomir, who happens to walk around at 190, who beat Zab Judah who weighed in the day of his last fight at 143 with his clothes on, means that Pacquiao can beat a slick African-American fighter. If that's what you're saying, than it can be argued that some nobody in the sport can beat Pacquiao. With that being said, I take it you've never heard of the saying "styles make fights"..? Again, look up Gainer, Too Sharp, Jones, Raheem, these guys may not have been in their prime but they were great competition and former champs in those lighter division, and all happened to be "slick."

15y ago

MindBat

Paul has shown he can box as well as brawl. He just rolled the dice one too many times with the brawling. He felt confident enough to believe his chin would hold up after going through the first war with Martinez. And who wouldn't? Especially when the fans and your handlers are convinced your chin's made of stone?

15y ago

Biolink

Who said pwill was a slick fighter besides his size ,his heart and work rate was the only thing that defines him.bhop was talking bout boxers hard to hit ,known for their defense an not a mexican style toe to toe . Nobody was saying that Williams was slick, they were just saying that they wanted to see him fight Pac and that he would be a big challange. But now that he got his ass knocked out all the Flomos are hiding behind" Williams was never a slickboxer" comment now that Williams is gonna be taken to the scrap heap. http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=441131&highlight=paul+williams+slick Meh, that was one of the one's I found, but people have been calling Paul a slick fighter in threads. I don't bother responding most of the time

15y ago

deejd

Jones and Johnson were past it. Slick, I will give you. But let's be honest. Do you honestly think that if those fights had made financial sense, Pacquiao would have avoided them? Once again, they fall into the not important category. Not to mention, they were past it and would have been no real challenge for Pacquiao. You also have to keep in mind that Jones had lost around three times around 2000, which is when Pacquiao bEGAN to rise. Gainer suffers from much of the same. It'd be ridiculous to assume Pacquiao would face relatively low-draw slick fighters when he's on his way up after having big wins. I completely understand what you're stating, trinity. Though everything didn't make financial sense then... did Senrima, Ledwaba, Julio, or Rakkiatgym make financial sense? I also understand that, then, those guys were past their prime and winding up their careers, but it still remains that they were available to fight, but didn't and had Marquez lost to Gainer, who knows, Maybe Gainer wins against Pac, maybe he doesn't. Superb post though, man. In hindsight, you say it's financial, I tend to match making, eerily similar business themes that occur in the sport.

15y ago

joelab75

The staying point is that you, specifically, cannot attest to the fact that Pacquiao can beat a slick African-American fighter because he has yet to actually fight one. Saying "if Baldomir can, so can Pacquiao" doesn't count because if that's the case, any cab driver can beat Pacquiao, correct? so ur point would be? Baldomir is greater than Pac, correct? because he was able to beat "slick african american" fighter, am i correct? so you're saying Manny CANT beat Zab? Manny beat better than the"slick african american" boxer u were reffering. he beat the likes of Barrera, Morales, Marquez, Cotto, Hatton, CLottey etc etc. and will pretty soon give a beating to Mosley or Berto. where was this "slick african american" boxers when Manny was fighting in 118, 122, 126, 130, 136, 140 and 147? my answer? NOWHERE! because its a BIG MYTH. if they were so "slick" they should be ranked in those weight divisions right?

15y ago

El_Prieto

that's why there's no point in hyping up black american fighters. just get to the point...if you mean slick fighters then just say slick fighters. but then that style is not even exclusive to black americans so just drop the race bait because it makes no fucking sense. I agree about the race thing. Though the style is still going to be referred to as an "African American Style" as it originated with them. As I pointed out earlier it is no longer exclusive to them, nor does it mean every one of them fight in that style as shown on the list as well.

15y ago

deejd

you guys said the same thing when Judah was like 27-0. he was a slick african american until he lost to Kotsza.. you guys think Manny cant fight slick fighters. if Baldomir can beat a "slick african american" i dont know why Pac cant. you guys act like slick african americans are the best in boxing. BREAKING NEWS!!! Asian dude who has the fastest combination with the best footwork is the best in the boxing world right now. The staying point is that you, specifically, cannot attest to the fact that Pacquiao can beat a slick African-American fighter because he has yet to actually fight one. Saying "if Baldomir can, so can Pacquiao" doesn't count because if that's the case, any cab driver can beat Pacquiao, correct?

15y ago

THe_TRiNiTY

Smoke Gainer was suppose to fight Pacquiao had Marquez not spoiled it. Not stating Gainer would have won, not stating Gainer would have lost, but he was there to fight. Junior Jones was floating around '22-'30 from '94. Mark Johnson had fought from 112-120 his whole career. Anyway, you could have at least relayed that last part to Morales. Jones and Johnson were past it. Slick, I will give you. But let's be honest. Do you honestly think that if those fights had made financial sense, Pacquiao would have avoided them? Once again, they fall into the not important category. Not to mention, they were past it and would have been no real challenge for Pacquiao. You also have to keep in mind that Jones had lost around three times around 2000, which is when Pacquiao bEGAN to rise. Gainer suffers from much of the same. It'd be ridiculous to assume Pacquiao would face relatively low-draw slick fighters when he's on his way up after having big wins.

15y ago

brick_wall

15y ago

El_Prieto

We can agree to disagree on that. Nonetheless, he stands no real chance, could deliver a bad PPV buy-rate and Pacquiao stands to make more money with other names. Aside from Berto, there is no black fighter that's semi-slick that could face Pacquiao. (Obviously, aside from Mayweather.) Mosley isn't slick. Berto is only partially slick at best. Pacquiao faces and beats the best and biggest names in the sport. Period. There is no reason for Pacquiao to risk anything against guys who can't sell. You wouldn't expect Mayweather to do that, why should Pacquiao? As a boxing fan I expect the BOTH to do that. That is why when people want to compare them with the ATG's I cringe. That was not the mentality back in the day. Fighters would risk there records as well as their life to fight the best, period.

15y ago

deejd

Pacquiao If the PPV does well this time, you get paid more next time. Sure, Pacquiao could have been paid the same for fighting Berto or Margarito. However, that PPV doesn't draw well. At all. And the next check is what COULD suffer. Especially if he faces Mayweather, who could use a bad PPV buy-rate as negotiating leverage. Maybe it's more of a challenge, but Berto doesn't have the greatest chin and he's also not African American OR slick. He's Haitian and he squares himself up, doesn't use head movement or keep his hands up at all times. He also can get tripped up at times. No fighter worth anything at the weight, besides Floyd Mayweather has a SLICK African American style of fighting, exists for Pacquiao. Berto isn't slick. Quick, fairly impactful. Not really slick. Slick is Sergio Martinez, Lucian Bute, Devon Alexander at times, Ivan Calderon in his prime. Berto is a fast fighter with a decent punch. True indeed

15y ago

El_Prieto

you guys said the same thing when Judah was like 27-0. he was a slick african american until he lost to Kotsza.. you guys think Manny cant fight slick fighters. if Baldomir can beat a "slick african american" i dont know why Pac cant. you guys act like slick african americans are the best in boxing. BREAKING NEWS!!! Asian dude who has the fastest combination with the best footwork is the best in the boxing world right now. Last time I checked Kostazu is not Manny Pacquiao, therefore Pac need to prove that he can do it against and elite Slick African American fighter.

15y ago

THe_TRiNiTY

He falls in line with the theory as he's slick. Maybe then we should include "black" American as he is of Haitian decent, but he grew up in the states. And he is elusive and fast enough to qualify in my book as slick. Is he the greatest? By no means, I'm not saying that, I even said Pac would beat him, but Berto can easily be mentioned in that category. We can agree to disagree on that. Nonetheless, he stands no real chance, could deliver a bad PPV buy-rate and Pacquiao stands to make more money with other names. Aside from Berto, there is no black fighter that's semi-slick that could face Pacquiao. (Obviously, aside from Mayweather.) Mosley isn't slick. Berto is only partially slick at best. Pacquiao faces and beats the best and biggest names in the sport. Period. There is no reason for Pacquiao to risk anything against guys who can't sell. You wouldn't expect Mayweather to do that, why should Pacquiao?

15y ago

deejd

Manny Pacquiao was in the lighter weights. There were NO slick fighters that were black. The only fighter with a name at the higher weights for Pacquiao was Mosley and he didn't fight him for two reasons. More money fighting Hatton and Cotto. And Mosley has a lot of power. Pacquiao needed to test the waters more. Regardless, it wouldn't matter. The only big name that's black is Mosley and he isn't a slick fighter. He's on his toes, he punches hard and he's fast. But... he's not slick. Not a great defense, no great head movement. He's not slick. Regardless, why the hell should Pacquiao fight ANYONE slick for less money? That's ridiculous. Smoke Gainer was suppose to fight Pacquiao had Marquez not spoiled it. Not stating Gainer would have won, not stating Gainer would have lost, but he was there to fight. Junior Jones was floating around '22-'30 from '94. Mark Johnson had fought from 112-120 his whole career. Anyway, you could have at least relayed that last part to Morales.

15y ago

joelab75

15y ago

El_Prieto

Nobody was saying that Williams was slick, they were just saying that they wanted to see him fight Pac and that he would be a big challange. But now that he got his ass knocked out all the Flomos are hiding behind" Williams was never a slickboxer" comment now that Williams is gonna be taken to the scrap heap. I'm not a flomo, I think Mayweather has been cherry picking all of his fights for the last 10 years just like Pac has been doing lately. I'm not hiding behind anything, but the fact remains that Paul Williams was never this Slick fighter that people are referring to.

15y ago