Quote: "Manny Pacquiao is great. Marquez is just as great."

i know it's just your opinions if you really want to give heart that much credit in terms of greatness then danny williams would be the GOAT beating srr by a mile... for me personally, i value resume above all else. all these jmm would beat hatton, drained odlh, clottey crap are all just fantasies. sure it can happen, but it didn't, while pac actually fought and beat them to a pulp. alot of people here like to talk skill this, skills that, but when it come down to it... but what matters most is how you make most of those skills in combination with your own natural gifts. having speed and power with you shouldn't be credited against you when comparing against someone who didn't have them in the first place... that's my opinion, at least. that's a good point, focusing on the resume. since Pacman faced the better opposition, he deserves a greater position than Marquez. Marquez DID NOT fight the tougher opposition. My argumentation was that Marquez's management sucked, but that doesn't change the resume's, facts are facts.

well if you're doing a p4p comparison, then does the weights really matter? and like i said before: the fact that he could hang with a big overweight Mayweather (over the contracted weight i mean) shows his heart, being that he can't gain size like Pacquiao can. that's why he's equal in greatness, i think. i know it's just your opinions if you really want to give heart that much credit in terms of greatness then danny williams would be the GOAT beating srr by a mile... for me personally, i value resume above all else. all these jmm would beat hatton, drained odlh, clottey crap are all just fantasies. sure it can happen, but it didn't, while pac actually fought and beat them to a pulp. alot of people here like to talk skill this, skills that, but when it come down to it... but what matters most is how you make most of those skills in combination with your own natural gifts. having speed and power with you shouldn't be credited against you when comparing against someone who didn't have them in the first place... that's my opinion, at least.

Ahh, u being thick headed he mean pac is better athlete, he can add muscle and fat to his body and still have the speed and more power. and we all know marquez can't do that. but marquez is more skillfull than pac. here i give u the table of the tape Skill pacman marquez handspeed 9,8 9,5 footwork 9,8 8,5 accuracy 9 10 headmovement 9,5 9 combo 9,5 10 doublecover 8,5 9,5 intel 9 9,8 final score 65,1 67,3 there u get it?? becoz pac is better athlete with bigger power he won those two fight. how the f**k does marquez have 9.8 intel???? HE DRINKS HIS OWN PISS FOR CRYING OUT LOUD! how about "chin" Pac 10, Marquez 5 Stamina Pac 10, Marquez 7 Punching Power Pac 10, Marquez 5 Toughness Pac 10, Marquez 8 Drink Pissing Ability Pac 0, Marquez 10

LOL, he'd get his ass beat by Cotto at 147. Marquez just can't do great at the higher weight clases, he's a natural 135 pounder*at the most. It's hard for Marquez to keep up with Pacquiao's accomplishments in moving up in weight and beating top fighters in those weight classes because Marquez body was just not built to be for those weight classes. well if you're doing a p4p comparison, then does the weights really matter? and like i said before: the fact that he could hang with a big overweight Mayweather (over the contracted weight i mean) shows his heart, being that he can't gain size like Pacquiao can. that's why he's equal in greatness, i think.

you are bullshiit and i never said jmm didt win more rounds then pac because he did and pac won those fights because of boxing politics not because he beat jmm.yes i do agree with you cocksucker jmm wont beat those guys at 147 he is just to small for 140 and up except for hatton i think he beats hatton. talk about getting a cock up their ass these pactards need a reality check.:bottle: let's just stick to the valid arguments in this thread, cool? just ignore the bs talkers man.. if it gets too much, i'll just let this thread go.

i think this thread is starting to hit a downward slope reading a few posts at the end.. lol

Ahh, u being thick headed he mean pac is better athlete, he can add muscle and fat to his body and still have the speed and more power. and we all know marquez can't do that. but marquez is more skillfull than pac. here i give u the table of the tape Skill pacman marquez handspeed 9,8 9,5 footwork 9,8 8,5 accuracy 9 10 headmovement 9,5 9 combo 9,5 10 doublecover 8,5 9,5 intel 9 9,8 final score 65,1 67,3 there u get it?? becoz pac is better athlete with bigger power he won those two fight. i guess your scoring makes sense somewhat, but where'd u get those scores from?

now your creating a fake version of marquez to equal a version of pac today :/// so your saying pac won those fights just coz of his conditioning and not his skills? :thinking: so a guys who is really in good condition without skills can win fights right? heres the thing when pac fought marquez yah their equal or marquez a little ahead skillwise but after that PAC > MARQUEZ by skillwise and resume Ahh, u being thick headed he mean pac is better athlete, he can add muscle and fat to his body and still have the speed and more power. and we all know marquez can't do that. but marquez is more skillfull than pac. here i give u the table of the tape Skill pacman marquez handspeed 9,8 9,5 footwork 9,8 8,5 accuracy 9 10 headmovement 9,5 9 combo 9,5 10 doublecover 8,5 9,5 intel 9 9,8 final score 65,1 67,3 there u get it?? becoz pac is better athlete with bigger power he won those two fight.

the only thing marquez is greater than pacquaio at is hitting the canvas and drinking piss

i give marquez alot of props because where he lacks in speed he makes up in skill and ability. marquez is a way better boxer than manny but manny is much more athletic fast and i believe stronger. its like jordan vs magic or bird. finesse over athletic ablility or vice versa. when it comes to the ring marquez is jsut as great. when it comes to accomplishments no.. but i believe marquez beats the oscar and hatton that manny beat and goes to war with cotto as well. Thats remain to be seen while Pac already beat them in one sided fashion treated them like a bum. JMM skills won't matter against Oscar and Cotto at welterweight. He been knocked down by Mayweather who is safe first fighter. Without the speed and power to hurt them, Oscar, Hatton, Cotto will just eat his feather punches like tomato at welterweight and ko him in early round.

i give marquez alot of props because where he lacks in speed he makes up in skill and ability. marquez is a way better boxer than manny but manny is much more athletic fast and i believe stronger. its like jordan vs magic or bird. finesse over athletic ablility or vice versa. when it comes to the ring marquez is jsut as great. when it comes to accomplishments no.. but i believe marquez beats the oscar and hatton that manny beat and goes to war with cotto as well.

Even if Juanma was as great as Pacquiao...it would only be known by the serious boxing fan. Marquez lacked the marketing team and the fighting style to stand above his peers.

bottom line jmm= better boxer and higher ring iq, jmm already beat pacs ring iq and boxing skills in their two fights. pac acheivements is what sets them apart but pac wins are in question with all the catchweight,past prime,and weight drained fighters he has fought.Makes them equal in a way. but in the end thier is no way in hell pac is a better boxer then jmm you take pac speed away and he becomes a tomato can. loll! Get your fact straight! On the record, JMM won more rounds in his two fights against Pac but he lose both because of the knockdowns. So being a better boxer/higher ring IQ/boxing skills like Sasakul, Ledwaba, Barrera and JMM sometimes are not good enough to beat the speed and power. Speaking of Pac fighting past his prime weight drained opponents. I don't think JMM can win against past prime weight drained Oscar, Hatton, Cotto, Clottey, and now Margarito if he fights them. So your argument holds no water and just pure bullshiit! One more thing, Pac beats all the boxers in JMM resume with ease but he can't do the same to Pacquiao. Talking about taking away Pac speed, you take away JMM boxing skils and he becomes a piss can. lol!

I'm impressed with how close the pole is bravo both guys have been in classic fights and defeated top flight prime fighters more importantly their two fights were on a nearly even keel. one fighter clearly isnt leaps and bounds over the other. I went with pacman simply because of the depth of his resume in many weight classes you can make the arguement that marquez won both fights if marquez somehow secures a pacquiao fight and wins he'd be at least as great. I couldnt have put it better myself,then again im drunk lol,messing pal excellent post

bottom line jmm= better boxer and higher ring iq, jmm already beat pacs ring iq and boxing skills in their two fights. pac acheivements is what sets them apart but pac wins are in question with all the catchweight,past prime,and weight drained fighters he has fought.Makes them equal in a way. but in the end thier is no way in hell pac is a better boxer then jmm you take pac speed away and he becomes a tomato can. You take pac's speed away and he's no longer pac. When Pac and Marquez fought, marquez was already at his prime. Pac wasn't. The Pac who fought Marquez would not have beaten Hatton, Cotto, Clottey or Margarito. Pac's still learning and improving his craft and we're not sure if he's actually reached his prime at this point.

I'm impressed with how close the pole is bravo both guys have been in classic fights and defeated top flight prime fighters more importantly their two fights were on a nearly even keel. one fighter clearly isnt leaps and bounds over the other. I went with pacman simply because of the depth of his resume in many weight classes you can make the arguement that marquez won both fights if marquez somehow secures a pacquiao fight and wins he'd be at least as great. my sentiments exactly, i kinda had a feeling this poll and thread would go like this. still great discussion though, the 3rd fight is still somewhat wanted, even though Pac would have him now, i think.

I'm impressed with how close the pole is bravo both guys have been in classic fights and defeated top flight prime fighters more importantly their two fights were on a nearly even keel. one fighter clearly isnt leaps and bounds over the other. I went with pacman simply because of the depth of his resume in many weight classes you can make the arguement that marquez won both fights if marquez somehow secures a pacquiao fight and wins he'd be at least as great.

i'm alright with your disagreement, everyone has their own opinion of course, i just wanted to make it a valid discussion and see what your arguments were, but to be honest: i don't get your arguments, i don't get exactly WHY they are not EQUAL in greatness. they have different skillsets and thats why they are equally great. they don't have to be exactly the same to be equally as great. comparing apples and oranges on delicious/disgusting is possible right? so my question is: are Marquez and Pacquiao EQUALLY (not more/less) as great? yes/no and if so, why? to be fair and honest with you on my views: Pacquiao has a better chance of beating him now than before, because he's so much faster, powerful and more importantly a much smarter boxer. Just one question. You say pac is most likely to beat marquez now. But you consider them equal in greatness. How does that equate? I mean, there is no denying Pac has certainly accomplished more, and fought and WON against bigger competition. There is also no doubt that Marquez would be the underdog if they fought now and that Pac has a much bigger chance of winning. Maybe at some point in their career they were equal in greatness. But in my point of view, Pac's star right now is going in a greater trajectory than that of Marquez. There is also no question that Marquez is indeed a great fighter, since he actually went toe to toe with pac twice. But at this point in time, Pac CLEARLY has the edge.

jmm was great but manny right now is the greatest. i can't imagine jmm playing it all night with oscar, ricky (ooops), miguel, clottey, and now margarito. he's way too fat for that level. i also can't imagine pac still fighting at lightweight today. he just can't do it in his body. what separated them was their fight weight. jmm was just as is at LW and won't do much at WW. pac was and pac is still currently.

greatness is being measured by accomplishments, so i guess pac's greatness is far ahead compared to JMM. only haters don't see it that way.. although imo, JMM is also a candidate to be a hall of famer..