Comments Thread For: Briggs: Vitali is Better Than Lennox Lewis, George Foreman

Vitali doesn't have an ATG resume, he just has ATG talent. He is very unlikely to be considered an ATG, because of his resume, although he'll certainly get in the Hall of Fame - but in a fantasy match-up he'd almost certainly have given any Heavyweight in history a tough fight. Ward may well be considered an ATG eventually, given his exceptional talent and ring intelligence, and if he is, the fact he took 5 years to step up to good competition won't count against him with any boxing historians, as long as he fights top competition from now on. Your counting it against Vitali is just silly. His last two fights have been against poor competition, but his run from the Lewis fight onwards is very good overall, and to pretend otherwise is ridiculous. His record is not appalling and you're being as ridiculous by saying so as the nuthuggers are being when they say he's the GOAT. Williams was a legitimate opponent after beating Tyson, bum or not; Sosnowski was a terrible choice of opponent, I've never defended that one, but since his return from retirement it was his first bad choice - and even then, it was no worse in isolation than Ali fighting Richard Dunn (although Ali had a vastly superior resume overall, obviously). But Briggs is just a money-making choice in a keep-busy fight, at a time when most of the top contenders are either outright ducking him or saying they are not ready, a fact that you refuse to take into account, which makes your bias truly ridiculous. The real story about the Briggs fight is the fact that Valuev, Haye, Solis, Boystov and Adamek all turned him down. I never said it was a good choice, but it was an understandable one in the circumstances - and a far better choice than Travis Walker would have been. Sosnowski was a much worse choice. Even today's Briggs would beat Sosnowski. And Briggs would certainly beat Audley as well. But you refuse to acknowledge that there were no good choices available to Vitali and that the fault for that lies squarely with the top so-called contenders, not with Vitali. And your refusal to acknowledge that fact makes you look ridiculous. As does your refusal to acknowledge that for all his failings, credibility-wise, Briggs is still a far bigger name than the other journeymen who were available for him to fight at the time. You only have to look at the massive coverage the fight and its aftermath have had from boxingscene and ringtv.com journalists to see that. I can't believe you wasted that much breath on this idiot. I read his last 8 posts and I wouldn't have bothered to enlighten him. He's obviously a troll and will stay red as long as he is a member. I always get a kick out of people who go out of there way to denounce Vitali's resume. You could easily make the argument that Lewis's resume is sh*t if you are determined to skew the facts.. For instance, Vitali has never taken a step back in his career, when coming back from a loss he has fought 22-0 Timo Hoffman and 34-1 Kirk Johnson. He never wasted his prime with a series of fights like Phil Jackson, Lionel Butler and Justin Fortune. You could also point out that both of Lewis' title reigns began with him winning a Vacant Title. Whereas Klitschko defeated the reigning champion in his 1st and 3rd reigns and only fought for the Vacant Title in his 2nd reign because Lewis retired instead of fighting him. Compare the level of Vitali Klitschko's opposition over the past few years with any stretch of Larry Holmes tital reign and Klitschko clearly has fought a higher caliber of fighter. Sh*t, Holmes stooped so low he fought Marvis Frazier when he was Champion and couldn't even get the fight sanctioned. That's not different than if Vitali decided to forego a title defense to fight Kimbo Slice. All in all anyone with any sense can see the analysis of Vitali's resume and ability that you put forth is pretty much spot on, sadly most people have no sense when it comes to the Klitschkos.... fanboys and critics alike.. as you said.

Nobody is calling Andre Ward an ATG,so no. Vitali doesn't have an ATG resume, he just has ATG talent. He is very unlikely to be considered an ATG, because of his resume, although he'll certainly get in the Hall of Fame - but in a fantasy match-up he'd almost certainly have given any Heavyweight in history a tough fight. Ward may well be considered an ATG eventually, given his exceptional talent and ring intelligence, and if he is, the fact he took 5 years to step up to good competition won't count against him with any boxing historians, as long as he fights top competition from now on. Your counting it against Vitali is just silly. His last two fights have been against poor competition, but his run from the Lewis fight onwards is very good overall, and to pretend otherwise is ridiculous. His record overall is appalling.Danny Williams,Shannon briggs and Sosnowski arent anywhere near world class.They were bums that Vitali picked out for an easy fight. His record is not appalling and you're being as ridiculous by saying so as the nuthuggers are being when they say he's the GOAT. Williams was a legitimate opponent after beating Tyson, bum or not; Sosnowski was a terrible choice of opponent, I've never defended that one, but since his return from retirement it was his first bad choice - and even then, it was no worse in isolation than Ali fighting Richard Dunn (although Ali had a vastly superior resume overall, obviously). But Briggs is just a money-making choice in a keep-busy fight, at a time when most of the top contenders are either outright ducking him or saying they are not ready, a fact that you refuse to take into account, which makes your bias truly ridiculous. The real story about the Briggs fight is the fact that Valuev, Haye, Solis, Boystov and Adamek all turned him down. And yet you're still trying to justify this mismatch. I never said it was a good choice, but it was an understandable one in the circumstances - and a far better choice than Travis Walker would have been. Sosnowski was a much worse choice. Even today's Briggs would beat Sosnowski. And Briggs would certainly beat Audley as well. But you refuse to acknowledge that there were no good choices available to Vitali and that the fault for that lies squarely with the top so-called contenders, not with Vitali. And your refusal to acknowledge that fact makes you look ridiculous. As does your refusal to acknowledge that for all his failings, credibility-wise, Briggs is still a far bigger name than the other journeymen who were available for him to fight at the time. You only have to look at the massive coverage the fight and its aftermath have had from boxingscene and ringtv.com journalists to see that.

Young Foreman was way more exciting than the Klits will ever be. He terrorised the division when all the greats were close or at pick. HE was also the victim of the best fight Ali had in his carrier, but He also lifted Frazier from the mat with a hook, something the Klits can 't do. Briggs can't talk about young Foreman because He was in dippers or not even born then. Lewis is debatable.

Briggs is a decade past his prime and has barely been active in the last three years.He got a gift decision over an ancient George foreman while he was still in his prime,he scored a fluke ko over Liakhovich over 4 years ago.Vitali doesnt want to fight Solis because Solis,as fat as he is still has a working pulse. That list is from 2002 you retard.Kirk Johnson was no longer rated by the time Vitali fought him.:rofl: I am a retard? Have you been talking to my ex-wife? The confusion is that on Boxrec they have the year at the top and than state that the ranking came from a 2003 issue of The Ring. But, that does not change the fact that Vitali fought, and you admitted, seven Ring top ten opponents. And by looking at the same Boxrec Ring ranking, the fact is Lewis fought ten top ten Ring fighters and he fought two of them twice. And even you can do the math. And your *****ing and moaning about Vitali but how many of Lennox's opponent were washed up and passed their prime? I know of at least two of them and they happen to be two of the biggest names on his resume. And since you stated earlier that you do not have the 1991 Ring ranking I assume you are looking at the same ones. I also have a question. Were Rahman and McCall ranked in Ring's top ten before they knocked out Lewis?

I cant find the ring ratings for 1991,but Lewis's wins over Gary Mason and Tyrell Biggs easily trump any win that Vitali had in the first two years of his career. Julius Francis and Herbie Hide were roughly equivalent to Mason and Biggs. It took him nearly three years to get to Hide, but that's not so unusual. It took Andre Ward five years to get to Miranda, his first opponent on that level. Do you hate Ward? It took Vitali six years to actually beat a heavyweight ranked in the top ten. Lewis destroyed the highly regarded Donavan Razor Ruddock. What matters is that once he got a title shot he fought nothing but top 10 opponents for a long time, which most title holders don't do. You're attempting to defend Vitali's appalling record and him fighting a completely shot,inactive shannon briggs His record since his fight with Lewis is far from being appalling and no objective person would take your claim seriously. Briggs is a joke fight but was far more justifiable as a stay busy fight than Walker would have been. To claim that Walker would have been a better one is just totally stupid. There were no good choices of opponent available to him at the time and he wanted to stay busy. Commercially, Briggs made sense. briggs was barely world class once(years ago),is not a big name and is not a decent draw. 14 million watched the fight in Germany. They would not have watched Vitali fight Walker in those numbers. The fight had a lot of worldwide press coverage, including headlining in the ringtv.com and getting several major write-ups in boxingscene. That would not have been the case if he'd fought Walker. Briggs is a draw because he was once a world class (admittedly borderline), is a former lineal champion, still has a huge punch and a great chin, and is good at trash talking. And Briggs would certainly knock Walker out, even now. Walker was no less deserving than briggs,nor was the last two guys he lost to.None of them were deserving.No doubt you'd attempt to defend Vitali if he did fight Walker,just like youre defending Vitali fighting briggs. That's just a retarded, idiotic thing to say.

Vitali beat sanders though who beat Wlad. So vitali punishes people who bully his brother.

Vitali doesnt want to fight Solis because Solis,as fat as he is still has a working pulse. You're basing that statement on the fact that Vitali offered Solis a fight this year and Solis said he wasn't ready, right? Solis will be Vitali's mandatory if he beats Austin in December and then he and Vitali will fight. In the meantime the only reason they haven't fought already is that Solis turned the fight down because he said he wasn't ready. As has been pointed out to you three times already. Kirk Johnson was no longer rated by the time Vitali fought him.:rofl: That's also untrue. Johnson lost his top 10 ranking after he fought Vitali. He was supposed to fight Lewis but pulled out through injury at the last moment, and was Lewis's mandatory at that time. So Vitali fought Lewis as Johnson's substitute, and then fought Johnson. Johnson lost his top 10 ranking after losing to Vitali.

And this explains Vitalis cherry picking throughout his career how excactly? Whats Vitalis excuse for not fighting a single ranked contender until he fought Lennox Lewis again? That's also a lie. He didn't fight many highly ranked contenders before he got his first title shot, but nor did Lewis, nor do most fighters. But to say he didn't fight any is an outright lie, and once he got his first title shot, he fought nothing but top 10 fighters for his next 7 fights, which is a far higher ratio of consecutive top 10 fighters than most title holders fight. Youre the one lying here to defend you idols ****ty record. You're being pathetic. Vitali is no more my idol than you are my idol. I've had more red Ks from Klitschko fans than from everyone else combined. Haters like you and nuthuggers like Tunney are two sides of the same coin - you're both as bad as each other. Tunney thinks I hate the Klitshkos because I often criticise them, and haters like you think I idolise them because I don't hate them, don't go along with your lies about their record, and am enough of a boxing fan to appreciate their skills. And I haven't said a single thing in this thread which I can't prove to be true. I never said Walker was a credible opponent idiot,I said he had more credibility as a challenger than briggs.My comment has everything to do with briggs not deserving his opportunity rather than Walker deserving his. Nevertheless it's the most retarded thing I've ever read on boxingscene. Walker is the least deserving boxer you could possibly have picked, and if Vitali had fought him you would have been even more down on him. At least Briggs was world class once, is still a big name and a decent draw, still has a huge punch and a great chin, and was coming off three first round KOs, admittedly against bums. To say that Walker is more deserving just makes you look incredibly stupid.

Ive followed Vitali throughout his career and know how he operates.He's took on easy,outmatched opponents throughout his career and avoided top ten contenders. All his opponents from Lewis to Arreola inclusive were ranked in The Ring's top 10 at the time they fought him, so either you're very ill informed or you're outright lying. You expect us to believe that he's jusy being a kind older brother by passing the more difficult opponents onto his little brother? Sorry,thats just a lame excuse. When he came back from retirement Wlad was the champion, so of course he didn't want to take Wlad's glory away from him, that's just common sense. Travis Walker also has a punch,he also isnt completely shot and boxed just 4 rounds in the last 3 years either.Even he had more credibility as a challenger than briggs did.Solis is out there and has called Vitali out.Simply put there are so many other options out there besides briggs. You're being ridiculous. Travis Walker was beaten in three rounds by Arreola, who was then easily beaten by Vitali; and he's lost his last two fights to journeymen, both by knock-out. If that's your idea of a credible opponent then you're just trolling. And I've already pointed out that Solis was offered a fight with Vitali this year but turned it down, saying that he wasn't ready - but is fighting Austin next for a mandatory shot at Vitali, so will be fighting Vitali in the New Year. But when they fight you'll complain that Solis isn't a top 10 fighter.

Vitali has just about fought seven top ten contenders in his entire career.Danny Williams was not rated,neither was Sosnowski,neither was briggs and neither was kirk johnson.And other than quit against chris byrd,he didnt do anything before that either. Vitali made a career out of avoiding top ten contenders,thats a fact.His record is padded full of outmatched opponents that posed no threat,besides Lewis and byrd,who both beat him. Oh, I see so it went from no top ten opponents to seven. Sorry you can no longer be taken seriously end of discussion. And by the way Kirk Johnson was in fact rated in the top 10 when he fought Vitali. Heavyweights 2003 Ring magazine Lennox Lewis, Champion 1. Wladimir Klitschko 2. Chris Byrd 3. David Tua 4. Evander Holyfield 5. John Ruiz 6. Hasim Rahman 7. Vitali Klitschko 8. Kirk Johnson 9. Mike Tyson 10. Jameel McCline

Ive followed Vitali throughout his career and know how he operates.He's took on easy,outmatched opponents throughout his career and avoided top ten contenders.You expect us to believe that he's jusy being a kind older brother by passing the more difficult opponents onto his little brother? Sorry,thats just a lame excuse. Travis Walker also has a punch,he also isnt completely shot and boxed just 4 rounds in the last 3 years either.Even he had more credibility as a challenger than briggs did.Solis is out there and has called Vitali out.Simply put there are so many other options out there besides briggs. Fact is Briggs deserved the shot just as much if not more than the fat Cuban did. Because at least Briggs was a world class fighter at one time and still has power. And I believe if Vitali fought and whipped Solis you would be saying the same thing about him not deserving the fight. So, it's blah blah blah over and over again.

When is Kimbo coming to boxing,I'd like to see him in the ring against one of the bros. Boxing wise he gets smoked but he might be able to bumrush them into the ropes and muscle them around.

No Wladimir is clearing the division not Vitali.Wladimirs(as much as I dont like him) work is his own work and why he ranks much higher than Vitali.beating the likes of kevin johnson,sosnowski and shannon briggs isnt clearing the division out.Vitali has cherry picked his entire career. What a crock of crap. I do believe that seven of Vitali's last ten opponents were rated in the top ten of not some BS alphabet garbage rankings but by Ring magazine. I know his last two were not but he did try to get fights with Valuev and Haye to no avail and not his fault. And I am not sure were Danny Williams was rated when they fought. And as far as ranking of the brothers one is ranked number one and the other number two and many believe that it is a toss up on who is actually better. So, there you go your ridicules statement is blown out of the water not by my opinion but by the facts.

No Wladimir is clearing the division not Vitali.Wladimirs(as much as I dont like him) work is his own work and why he ranks much higher than Vitali.beating the likes of kevin johnson,sosnowski and shannon briggs isnt clearing the division out.Vitali has cherry picked his entire career. Vitali is letting Wlad get first choice of opponent because Wlad is the one who has the better chance of ending up with ATG status. But even so, Vitali has fought three top 10 fighters (in The Ring's rankings) since coming back from retirement - and Kevin Johnson was a fringe contender and only just outside the top 10 when they fought. And Vitali was ducked by Haye and Valuev this year, Adamek was also offered a fight with Vitali this year and said he wasn't ready, and the same is true for Solis. And he'll almost certainly fight either Solis or Adamek next. He's fighting more or less the best opponents he can get, given that Wlad gets first choice. That said, I'd have preferred him to fight someone like Thompson rather than Briggs, but the truth is, he'd have then been criticised for fighting Wlad's leftovers, so he can't win. And Briggs had a big punch and was a big name, so commercially it generated more interest than a fight with Thompson would have. But bottom line, it's the top contenders you should be criticising for not wanting to fight him, not Vitali.

I agree, that they can't really be blamed for their genetics. I used to get mad at them for picking on smaller guys I guess but they have to fight somebody. I think that Ali's use of the jab and his mobility would allow him to get in and do some serious damage. Wlad's has an ATG jab, and is deceptively quick. Vitali has a very hurtful and deceptively fast jab as well. Both in their current versions are superb at controlling distance. Their footwork is under-estimated as well. I don't think it's a slam dunk at all that Ali would be able to out-jab either of them. Especially because both of them are good at fighting off the back foot, and Ali preferred to fight going backwards himself. He struggled when he had to go looking for his opponent. Norton i think would be able to catch them with a bomb..at least he would be throwing punches unlike Briggs Norton froze against Foreman, who was the only really big Heavyweight he fought. Or did you mean Foreman when you said Norton? If so, in his prime Foreman threw telegraphed round-house punches, and while it's possible that he'd have landed one, I certainly don't think that's a slam dunk either. Jimmy Young had no trouble seeing them coming.

Ali was much smaller than they are, and in his prime he never had to face anyone who had even close to the combination of being as tall, as athletic and as skilled as they now are. Foreman in his prime went life and death with Lyle and lost to Young, who was similar in terms of skills and speed to Byrd. While Ali and Foreman have superior resumes (vastly superior in Ali's case) to either of the K bros, and will be higher in the ATG rankings for that reason (especially Ali), in a fantasy match-up with the current version of either brother, both of whom have greatly improved in terms of ring generalship and in learning how to fight tall and control distance in recent years, it would be a pick 'em fight. It's too easy to judge the brothers on how they were 5 or more years ago. They have both improved a lot since then, especially Wlad. It's just extremely unfortunate, for them and for boxing, that there's no one around who can really test them and provide a proper yardstick - but that isn't their fault. I agree, that they can't really be blamed for their genetics. I used to get mad at them for picking on smaller guys I guess but they have to fight somebody. I think that Ali's use of the jab and his mobility would allow him to get in and do some serious damage. Norton i think would be able to catch them with a bomb..at least he would be throwing punches unlike Briggs

Unlike Vitali,lewis cleared his division and beat all top contenders.He didnt cherry pick old shot unranked contenders like Vitali has always done,he fought them all. Lennox Lewis is a legend and an ATG,Quitali isnt. Vitali and Wlad between them have cleaned out the division, and have fought all the top contenders who are willing to fight them.

A prime Ali would box Vitali's ears off....also a prime Foreman would knock some sense into both he and his brother. It's the reach and height advantages man, they are both pretty good boxers, I'll give them that. They have so many advantages though, they will never face a tough challenge from these smaller guys Ali was much smaller than they are, and in his prime he never had to face anyone who had even close to the combination of being as tall, as athletic and as skilled as they now are. Foreman in his prime went life and death with Lyle and lost to Young, who was similar in terms of skills and speed to Byrd. While Ali and Foreman have superior resumes (vastly superior in Ali's case) to either of the K bros, and will be higher in the ATG rankings for that reason (especially Ali), in a fantasy match-up with the current version of either brother, both of whom have greatly improved in terms of ring generalship and in learning how to fight tall and control distance in recent years, it would be a pick 'em fight. It's too easy to judge the brothers on how they were 5 or more years ago. They have both improved a lot since then, especially Wlad. It's just extremely unfortunate, for them and for boxing, that there's no one around who can really test them and provide a proper yardstick - but that isn't their fault.

Briggs speaks the truth. Vitali is a monster. He beats any HW from any era. A prime Ali would box Vitali's ears off....also a prime Foreman would knock some sense into both he and his brother. It's the reach and height advantages man, they are both pretty good boxers, I'll give them that. They have so many advantages though, they will never face a tough challenge from these smaller guys ***Plus on a side note,Lewis came back and utterly destroyed Rahman too

im not hating im saying the truth. Ill even explain myself. The only truly great heavy either klitchko has faced was Lewis. We all know what happened there.Everybody else on their record is decent at best. If you disagree cool, name me the best fighters on their resume. Vitali may have also been the best fighter Lewis ever faced. Unless of course you want to count a past his prime Holyfield who Lewis happened to outweigh by 30 pounds or a five years or so past his prime Mike Tyson. Other that that Lewis doesn't have any great names on his resume. And if he does tell me who they are.