Just re watched Cotto vs Margarito

This is the first NSB thread that I've read every post in a long time. Here's to intelligent discussion. :friday::beerchug:

2 questions: Marg took a lot of clean powerful shots from Cotto and walked (and even ran at some points) through them like they were nothing, Pacquiao did the same a year later. Cotto was previously thought to be one of the pound for pound big punchers before the Marg fight. Was Cotto's power overrated? Similarly was Marg's chin overrated? (Bearing in mind for both these questions what Mosley did to Margarito) Also, even if Margarito was using plaster in his wraps for the Cotto fight (which I probably think he was) the problem Cotto had was dealing with the relentless pressure of Margarito. I think a rematch would have a similar outcome. Cotto faded cause of the plaster

This is exactly my point, Cotto gets busted up (cuts) easily but he's never had his nose broken before. The cut in the Mosley fight was also a headbutt, but I'm not entirely sure. Mosley landed about 15 punches less than Margarito and I think we can all agree that Mosley is the harder puncher, by far. Mosley landed most of his shots to the head while Marg landed I'd say a 1/3rd to the body. I just don't see how Cotto's face is a swollen mess with Margarito but only slightly against a stronger puncher, they even used the same size gloves. Well, I hear you, but Mosley's money punches are the left hook, and the right hand. The left hook and right hand are in Margo arsenal, but his money punches are the left and right uppertcuts. He puts everything he has into them. Just look at his past fights to see this. Cotto was once trapped on the ropes and ate 3 or 4 uppercuts...Later on in the same round (round 2) he was caught in the corner and ate 4 or 5 more...In a row!!! That is going to do damage. I mean, Cotto went face first into every uppercut. That couldn't have been a good thing. Also, like I stated before, Forbes is as feather fisted as they come, and he cracked Oscar's orbital bone with a single uppercut. Sorry, but I believe that the damage that was done in the second round was do to a dozen or so uppercuts, that did land, and landed with force...And a fighter that had no answer to defend them.

I don't know man, many folks have their reason to belive he loaded his gloves, and I have mine on why he just tried against Mosley...And no one else. We can just agree to disagree. Only reason I am making it so short is, I'm about to get off of work, and will not be able to get into this like I want to. There is one thing that I don't agree with you on though...Cotto was cut agaisnt Mosley (eye), and against Judah (lip was damn near ripped off), and got about two or three different cuts against Urkel (they were headbutts, but still). He only had a cut over his eye agaist Margo. Clean punches opened it up more, but Cotto has cut well before the Margo fight. Edit: I didn't put Clottey in that (cause it was after the Margo fight), but that was from a butt also. I can't really say I blame Margo and plaster for that... This is exactly my point, Cotto gets busted up (cuts) easily but he's never had his nose broken before. The cut in the Mosley fight was also a headbutt, but I'm not entirely sure. Mosley landed about 15 punches less than Margarito and I think we can all agree that Mosley is the harder puncher, by far. Mosley landed most of his shots to the head while Marg landed I'd say a 1/3rd to the body. I just don't see how Cotto's face is a swollen mess with Margarito but only slightly against a stronger puncher, they even used the same size gloves.

I agree with what you say about the amount of damage Cotto took. Without the plaster he may have still had a busted nose as he bent down so damn low in that fight and Margarito had a field day with the uppercuts. That being said, swelling goes down rather quickly in most cases it only last 3-4 days max with proper care. So seeing that he wasn't swollen a week later doesn't really mean much as you can't see what happened under the skin. Its the fact that Cotto was in back to back BRUTAL fights with Judah and Mosley in which he was hit just as clean and he didn't swell up nearly as much if at all in those fights. It wasn't like Cotto never got hit before but he sure as hell never swelled up like he did against Marg. Edit: I didn't put Clottey in that (cause it was after the Margo fight), but the was from a but also. I can't really say I blame Margo and plaster for that... Gatti was known to be a guy who swells up his entire career, Cotto was known to have bad defense but never really had an issue with swelling or even cuts till after the Marg fight. Its just hard for me not to believe he wouldn't use on his first PPV fight against an undefeated fighter, in a fight which was leading up to a Floyd or DLH showdown, essentially the biggest fight in his career. Yet, he had to use wraps against an old, tune-up fight in Mosley... doesn't make any sense especially with how bad Cotto swells up now. I don't know man, many folks have their reason to belive he loaded his gloves, and I have mine on why he just tried against Mosley...And no one else. We can just agree to disagree. Only reason I am making it so short is, I'm about to get off of work, and will not be able to get into this like I want to. There is one thing that I don't agree with you on though...Cotto was cut agaisnt Mosley (eye), and against Judah (lip was damn near ripped off), and got about two or three different cuts against Urkel (they were headbutts, but still). He only had a cut over his eye agaist Margo. Clean punches opened it up more, but Cotto has cut well before the Margo fight. Edit: I didn't put Clottey in that (cause it was after the Margo fight), but that was from a butt also. I can't really say I blame Margo and plaster for that...

You are right on many points but the plaster of paris gave Margarito in that fight it is my opinion the win. Without it he could never do that damage on Cotto. Cotto's workrate decreased from the 6th round. Okay he was getting hit but Cotto was hit in his past fights too. And even Mosley could not do that damage on Cotto. I can see your point. Really though my man, I just don't even really bother myself with trying to change anyone's mind. If you feel he cheated, that is cool...I will look at you no different for it. I happen to think he didn't load his gloves agaist Cotto...But that is just me. I have always stood my ground on that, and that will not change. I really respect being able to debate this like men. Green K sent (don't worry about sending any back. Trust me, most people would have lost it from my first post).

To be honset with you, I don't even care anymore... I just hate how people don't take anything into consideration. Okay, so he might have loaded his gloves. Feel better now? Now, lets look at the fact that Cotto ate more leather in that fight, than any other (beside Pac after that). Cotto ate uppercut after uppercut, body shot after body shot, straight right, and a few left hooks, one that hurt him... The man was getting touched all night...Did plaster do that? Do you remember the steriod rumors after the fight? I do! Do you remember fans saying that Cotto looked like Collins a week after the fight? I do! Then CHAMPBOXPR (or whatever his name was) posted a pic of Cotto at the Mark Ehco party (a week or so after the fight)....Cotto had no swelling at all on his face...Matter of fact, he just had a bangade on his eye (small one at that, for the cut he suffered)...Point is, the "plaster" really didn't do as much damge as people claim it did...If there was any to begin with. People have always looked for something in that fight (even before the Mosley deal) to say it wasn't fair. The man with less skill won, and folks still can't deal with it. Period. I agree with what you say about the amount of damage Cotto took. Without the plaster he may have still had a busted nose as he bent down so damn low in that fight and Margarito had a field day with the uppercuts. That being said, swelling goes down rather quickly in most cases it only last 3-4 days max with proper care. So seeing that he wasn't swollen a week later doesn't really mean much as you can't see what happened under the skin. Its the fact that Cotto was in back to back BRUTAL fights with Judah and Mosley in which he was hit just as clean and he didn't swell up nearly as much if at all in those fights. It wasn't like Cotto never got hit before but he sure as hell never swelled up like he did against Marg. Gatti was known to be a guy who swells up his entire career, Cotto was known to have bad defense but never really had an issue with swelling or even cuts till after the Marg fight. Its just hard for me not to believe he wouldn't use on his first PPV fight against an undefeated fighter, in a fight which was leading up to a Floyd or DLH showdown, essentially the biggest fight in his career. Yet, he had to use wraps against an old, tune-up fight in Mosley... doesn't make any sense especially with how bad Cotto swells up now.

also remember the boxing rule swarmer beats boxer boxer beats slugger slugger beats swarmer margarito the swarmer owned cotto the boxer just like he's supposed to cus boxer needs distance and timing and swarmer negates all that just like he did against cotto a slugger owns swarmer because a swarmer does exactly what a slugger wants you to do, he comes right at you and lets you tee off on him. this is why mosley the slugger annihilated margarito and boxer beats slugger because a slugger can't deal with distance and timing/skill as well, so Cotto the boxer beat Mosley the slugger. works out perfectly I like this post!!! :fing02:

cotto was a pure head hunter in that fight. he found it so easy to hit marg to the head that he just kept doing it. i also dont believe when cotto said he couldnt find an opening to the body, he could have set up something to hit the body but chose not to. he really thought he could ko marg on head shots. mosley showed that tying up is very affective against a non stop puncher. if cotto done that the fight would have ended just like the shane/marg fight

Do you want to say that Margarito fought fair and square in the ring ? To be honset with you, I don't even care anymore... I just hate how people don't take anything into consideration. Okay, so he might have loaded his gloves. Feel better now? Now, lets look at the fact that Cotto ate more leather in that fight, than any other (beside Pac after that). Cotto ate uppercut after uppercut, body shot after body shot, straight right, and a few left hooks, one that hurt him... The man was getting touched all night...Did plaster do that? Do you remember the steriod rumors after the fight? I do! Do you remember fans saying that Cotto looked like Collins a week after the fight? I do! Then CHAMPBOXPR (or whatever his name was) posted a pic of Cotto at the Mark Ehco party (a week or so after the fight)....Cotto had no swelling at all on his face...Matter of fact, he just had a bangade on his eye (small one at that, for the cut he suffered)...Point is, the "plaster" really didn't do as much damge as people claim it did...If there was any to begin with. People have always looked for something in that fight (even before the Mosley deal) to say it wasn't fair. The man with less skill won, and folks still can't deal with it. Period.

You guys watched the Cotto vs Margarito fight right ? Some of you guys agreed that Mosley hits harder than Cotto but how could Margarito busted Cotto's nose in round 2 ! Just watch the fight again and you see that even Cotto could not believe it that he started bleeding from his nose. Maybe Maragrito had really loaded gloves. You know, the uppercut is one of the most damaging punches in boxing (do to the angle that it is thrown, and most never see it coming). Know just imagen if you lean into say, 4 or 5 straight uppercuts...Then several others later in the round, as you are trapped in a corner... That is what did damage to Cotto's nose...Take Oscar/Forbes for example. That punch (uppercut) landed funny on Oscar's face, remember what happened? Not to mention, I thought it took several rounds for the plaster to set?

I had the Margo-Cotto fight recorded on dvr...i rewatched it a couple time to reference in conversations-debates in the past, but i had to erase it. As much as i hate to admit it, it pains me to watch that fight. No diss to Tony, I don't want to discuss wraps anymore, but man, he did have one hell of a chin, I'll give him that, and he was in his prime. That being said, yeah, he did eat some decent shots from Cotto, and Shane capitalized on that and very well may have cracked that iron jaw. If and when he fights Manny, we will see. I still say Manny stops him in the middle-late rounds. Manny is just too fast and it's the punches you don't see that hurt. Hit me up for bets.

also remember the boxing rule swarmer beats boxer boxer beats slugger slugger beats swarmer margarito the swarmer owned cotto the boxer just like he's supposed to cus boxer needs distance and timing and swarmer negates all that just like he did against cotto a slugger owns swarmer because a swarmer does exactly what a slugger wants you to do, he comes right at you and lets you tee off on him. this is why mosley the slugger annihilated margarito and boxer beats slugger because a slugger can't deal with distance and timing/skill as well, so Cotto the boxer beat Mosley the slugger. works out perfectly If it was only that easy..........:pat: Not for nothing but Margarito took a brutal beating in that fight. Lots of punches. Cotto may have been ruined a la Meldrick Taylor but people forget that Chavez wasn't the same after that either. First quote: Very good post, and alot of the time, it does happen that way. Second quote: Of course there are cases where it doesn't play out that way...Floyd vs Chavez for example (swarmer vs boxer) Third quote:very good point! All in all, three good post.

I am just dying to see what he can do now against someone who is fairly equal and presents a good challenge to Cotto, i want to see a good "barometer" to judge how well he has recuperated from those 2 brutal losses, and to see how good a job Steward did with "restoring" Miguels old style minus the bad habits Steward said he has corrected. He should by now be pretty used to sparring with some good guys at his new weight and be comfortable enough to take on a real challenge. Not one where he has a good chance of losing, but pit him against a fighter that is capable of giving him a real hard time, so that he really needs to dig in deep to come out with a good, credible win.

2 questions: Marg took a lot of clean powerful shots from Cotto and walked (and even ran at some points) through them like they were nothing, Pacquiao did the same a year later. Cotto was previously thought to be one of the pound for pound big punchers before the Marg fight. Was Cotto's power overrated? Similarly was Marg's chin overrated? (Bearing in mind for both these questions what Mosley did to Margarito) Also, even if Margarito was using plaster in his wraps for the Cotto fight (which I probably think he was) the problem Cotto had was dealing with the relentless pressure of Margarito. I think a rematch would have a similar outcome. Yeah good observations I think one of the things also worth mentioning was Margarito in that fight showed great determination and focus this was a big deal match for him and I think that helped him walk through alot of those shots, but yes Cottos power is questionable above 147 it was more evident at the lower weights. When later we see Marg get stopped by Mosley I think his mind was not on the fight and Mosley was LOADING up on those shots and he has good proven power.

Also, even if Margarito was using plaster in his wraps for the Cotto fight (which I probably think he was) the problem Cotto had was dealing with the relentless pressure of Margarito. I think a rematch would have a similar outcome. As I recall, Cotto was boxing the head off Margarito, it was only when Margo started hitting him with upper-cuts between the guard that Cotto slowed down. The real question is whether he was throwing cement uppercuts or regular ones.

Cotto's biggest mistake was that he stayed too long on the ropes for Marg to unload punches on him. imo .

I would rate Manny's punches 6 but does critical damage when you don't see where it is coming from.

IMO Cotto loses heart when he thinks that he can't hurt his opponent. Example Marga and Pac. Especially Manny's case if he showed he was hurt by Cotto's punches I'm 100% sure Cotto would have traded more and go for the offensive against Pac.

Clottey also hurt Margarito with a punch that Margarito ran in to. But Margarito hanged on for dear life. And Clottey is not a big puncher. Williams tagged Margarito a bunch of times and seemed to stun him at least. Mosley destroyed Margarito. Cotto did none of the above even with clean shots. So his power may be a bit overrated.