If you don't know you are cheating how exactly are you a cheater?

Well considering the testimony from the inspectors at the scene corroborates with Margaritos story I came to the conclusion that he was telling the truth. Again its his own stupid Fault he should of payed more attention to his trainer but when you simply look at this in black and white you are missing a lot of important aspects and you are also finding the man guilty of the wrong thing. Is he gulty of being incrediably irresponsiable? Yes! Should he be punished for his irresponsiability? Hell yes it could of gotten a fighter hurt? But is he this evil person who was sitting there looking to bash someones head in with a weapon? No I dont think so! But is he this evil person who was sitting there looking to bash someones head in with a weapon? No I dont think so! You have no way of knowing this. Besides, taking an argument to the exterme to make a point is a clear signal of how weak the argument is. It doesn't matter what type of person he is. it only matters what he did. Bad guys save lives and nice guys kill people. His not knowing about the wraps is like floyd not knowing about negotiations and manny not knowing about the 14 day offer in January. Their camps helped them each create plausible deniability. "Plausible deniability" doesn't mean each guy didn't know what was going on.

I'm not trying to counter our argument. I'm wondering how someone I think knows this sport arrives at this conclusion. Well considering the testimony from the inspectors at the scene corroborates with Margaritos story I came to the conclusion that he was telling the truth. Again its his own stupid Fault he should of payed more attention to his trainer but when you simply look at this in black and white you are missing a lot of important aspects and you are also finding the man guilty of the wrong thing. Is he gulty of being incrediably irresponsiable? Yes! Should he be punished for his irresponsiability? Hell yes it could of gotten a fighter hurt? But is he this evil person who was sitting there looking to bash someones head in with a weapon? No I dont think so!

Marg is not a tragic figure bc he does not show no remorse. If you did something wrong, and like you said, he knows he did, why would you flash your wraps after his last fight, making a mockery of the whole situation. Did that look like someone who regretted the whole situation he was in? No. Marg is a ignorant individual that things that Arum and his cash is going to get him out of his jam. If he was a little more remorseful maybe some people would feel for him and give him the benefit of the doubt. His cockiness and his believe that he is above the law is what has influence on him not getting his license back. That Marg can't sue Capetillo bc he also did something wrong? The reason he is not suing that man is because he knows the truth will come out and he will be exposed and the whole world will know he knew all along. When you have boxed for so long, you know what is in your gloves. Also, according to Capetillo, this pads were use in trainning camp, so Marg was using these wraps while training, meaning that he knew what it felt to have the wraps inside your gloves. Common sense will tell you that if he used them for training, he was acostume to having the wraps on. Please don't under estimate the intelligence of some posters here. That's pretty much it. Taking Capetillo to court may actually open up a can of worms that a very tiny minority of his fans would forgive. Besides, wasn't Margo going to pursue a lawsuit against the commission? Or was that just posturing? There were a number of things Margo did wrong to implicate himself of wrongdoing in the first place. I think bottom line, the commission may have felt slighted by some of his actions and wanted to make an example of him. On another note, I feel he screwed himself by stating he stopped communicating with his trainer altogether and severed all ties to him, then stating he did communicate with him after that to question him. He could've done things a lot differently if you ask me. Many people feel empowered by challenging and defying authority when they feel they have nothing to lose. Many couldn't care less either way.

Big Dunn it would be nice if you would actually come up with an argument to justify why you think Im wron rather than just blurting out talking points with no argument behind them. And again Im not saying Margarito is free of any wrong doing nor am I disputin the CSAC findings. Please read my initial post for clarification and actually give me a counter point to my statement rather than just sayin "oh your wrong" and not arguing why I am wrong. We've discussed this before. My argument is simple. Marg knew what was going on despite the well worded argument you and earner0919 make. I took issue with the part of your post I copied. I'm not trying to counter our argument. I'm wondering how someone I think knows this sport arrives at this conclusion.

I understand that the inspector missed it. But the inspector wasn't wearing it. I think that if you do something to alter a man's hand wraps, he should be able to tell the difference instantly. Honestly, yeah. I feel like he probably did do it in other fights. Who knows. Maybe he noticed a difference, but thought nothing of it? Either way, we'll never know for sure. So I guess while I feel like it's completely fair to assume that he cheated in other fights, it's equally as fair to assume that he didn't. Well what Im trying to point out to you is if the inspector for the Mosely fight and in some peoples opinion inspectors from other fights missed the wraps being tampered with isn't it possiable for a fighter who only had the wraps on for 5 minutes and never left the chair he was sitting in when his hands were wrapped may have missed the insert too? I mean the inspectors were right there watching everything and on top of that they have been trained to look for tampering. It's not like the inspector is some guy they just thru in there off the street. Hell even the head of the CSAC agrees with that and so did several of the other commissioners. They actually said that they beleived Margarito story!

But the inspector himself who was watching the wrapping session missed it and Tony didn't really have a chance to really try out the wrap itself because he only had it on for a few minutes before all the contraversy happened. Let me ask you something do you feel Margarito used Loaded gloves in other fights? I understand that the inspector missed it. But the inspector wasn't wearing it. I think that if you do something to alter a man's hand wraps, he should be able to tell the difference instantly. Honestly, yeah. I feel like he probably did do it in other fights. Who knows. Maybe he noticed a difference, but thought nothing of it? Either way, we'll never know for sure. So I guess while I feel like it's completely fair to assume that he cheated in other fights, it's equally as fair to assume that he didn't.

But I will see him as this fun loving simple fighter who took marginal talent and made himself into a champion and was completely fuked over by the people he trusted. Its sad that the fighter is the one who always suffers the most even if most of this mess wasn't really his fault. Pistol Whip 2 things. I respect you and Earner0919 but: marg knew what was going on. he wont come clean because he doesn't have to;texas (jerry jones) will likely liscense him anyway. He's not some tragic figure. he is a cheater who is in with the right people at the right time so even though he committed one of the biggest sins in this sport he doesn't have to suffer. No matter what you post this fight isn't legitimate and Manny will get called on it! Big Dunn it would be nice if you would actually come up with an argument to justify why you think Im wron rather than just blurting out talking points with no argument behind them. And again Im not saying Margarito is free of any wrong doing nor am I disputin the CSAC findings. Please read my initial post for clarification and actually give me a counter point to my statement rather than just sayin "oh your wrong" and not arguing why I am wrong.

If I put my shoes on the same way 1,000 times, and on the 1,001 time you put something unusual in my shoe, I will notice it right away. It's just the way it is. When you've gotten used to the feel of something for most of your life, the very second that it gets changed, you will notice. That's the way I see it, anyway. But the inspector himself who was watching the wrapping session missed it and Tony didn't really have a chance to really try out the wrap itself because he only had it on for a few minutes before all the contraversy happened. Let me ask you something do you feel Margarito used Loaded gloves in other fights?

he knew exactlywhat he was doing he just never thought he would get caught Most boxers are looking at their hands while they are being wrapped they tell where to adjust the wrap or if it feels different he knew Pistol get over it I totally agree

But I will see him as this fun loving simple fighter who took marginal talent and made himself into a champion and was completely fuked over by the people he trusted. Its sad that the fighter is the one who always suffers the most even if most of this mess wasn't really his fault. Pistol Whip 2 things. I respect you and Earner0919 but: marg knew what was going on. he wont come clean because he doesn't have to;texas (jerry jones) will likely liscense him anyway. He's not some tragic figure. he is a cheater who is in with the right people at the right time so even though he committed one of the biggest sins in this sport he doesn't have to suffer. No matter what you post this fight isn't legitimate and Manny will get called on it!

Because whether you know or not. You are still cheating. So you will get busted and made aware of your cheating. You will stil get punished. Next time be more aware of the rules of the sport. Especially since you been a pro over 15 years. I think you need to read my post rather than just reading the title of this thread. I asked some deeper questions than that and also I never absolved margarito of anything.

Let me first start by saying I am fine with the CSAC decision not to restore Margarito liscense. They made very valid points and I think they were completely justified. With that what I would like to point out to everyone is that the commission said over and over again that they believed that Tony did not know what had been placed in his gloves. Written statements were provided to the court with testimony from the inspectors who were at the fight that said that they did not feel that Tony knew what was in the gloves. With that I think the evidence is very much pointing in favor to margarito not knowing what was in his gloves, now does he deserve to be punished? Yes for being a stupid gullible idiot who should of made sure that his trainer wasn't a cheating scumbag. But before all the knee jerk remarks are made about how this thread is dumb and let me ask you to do one thing. Put yoursef in his shoes! Pretend that someone you trusted so much as to call him a father figure fuks you over and destroys your good name. How tragic would that be? Margarito is a tragic figure in my eyes and always will be! I will never see him as a cheater like all the knownothings seem to cling to. But I will see him as this fun loving simple fighter who took marginal talent and made himself into a champion and was completely fuked over by the people he trusted. Its sad that the fighter is the one who always suffers the most even if most of this mess wasn't really his fault. He may not know he's cheating but his seconds are cheating on his behalf...(or he could be lying that he did not know anything about it)

If I put my shoes on the same way 1,000 times, and on the 1,001 time you put something unusual in my shoe, I will notice it right away. It's just the way it is. When you've gotten used to the feel of something for most of your life, the very second that it gets changed, you will notice. That's the way I see it, anyway.

he knew exactlywhat he was doing he just never thought he would get caught Most boxers are looking at their hands while they are being wrapped they tell where to adjust the wrap or if it feels different he knew Pistol get over it

This situation reminds me of a bankrobber saying that He didn't know He was in a bank. He thought He was asking his Mom for some money... It's basically an insult to the inteligence of boxing fans. A boxer has his hands in front of him while they wrap them and He has to tell the trainer if they are to tide or loose. There's no way a trainer wraps the hands from behind or the side and unless the fighter gets his hands wrap while sleeping, there's NO way of NOT knowing. That's why the Commision told Margarito that HE was responsable either way. They didn't fly with his BS story, period.

Because whether you know or not. You are still cheating. So you will get busted and made aware of your cheating. You will stil get punished. Next time be more aware of the rules of the sport. Especially since you been a pro over 15 years. This. That. This.

Kinda hard to believe that Margarito didn't realize that his gloves were landing with a different feel than before. Unless Mosley truly was the first time his gloves were loaded. Yeah looking at your sig and avatar I can't take anything you say seriously.

Because whether you know or not. You are still cheating. So you will get busted and made aware of your cheating. You will stil get punished. Next time be more aware of the rules of the sport. Especially since you been a pro over 15 years. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Playing devil's advocate here, how can you prove he didn't know he was cheating? The facts are he was caught attempting to cheat and with no evidence other than his own testimony (which would prove to serve his purpose) you have no evidence suggesting he didn't know what was in his gloves. Should we forgive him because we think he didn't know what was in his gloves because of his character? And even so isn't it up to a fighter whose career, future paydays and livelihood rests on to make sure everything is in order? I'm not suggesting he was a cheater, but I don't think a victim either since I don't know the facts and he certainly isn't a tragic figure. I'd swap places with him for the amount of money he was paid against Cotto, Cintron and Mosley. Because he was there when they were wrapping Margs hands and he saw that Margs closed his eyes.

Every boxer does NOT say thast you know what goes on your hands. Maybe they think they do, which is different. Bob Arum gave a statement in which he said that he contacted a whole roster of famous fighters ( you might say expert witnesses for the defence) and he mentioned their names, beginning with Larry Holmes, who told him that they rarely if ever bothered to pay attention to their hands being wrapped, that this was an action they'd experienced thousands of times, that an improper pad could very easily have been inserted without Margarito knowing it. Also Freddie Roach and another famous trainer who's name escapes me said the very same thing, and they though that Margarito did not know. The pros and cons and guilt or innocence does not concern me at all, I merely object to dimwits jumping all over very sparse evidence to condemn a man to all sorts of punishment, from banishment for life, to jail to been torn to pieces by a pack of wild dogs, (even to voting for Obama, which I think was the worst). If your hands have been wrapped thousands of times, you will be well aware when something is there that is not supposed to be.