how can you call yourself the best when you fight damaged opponents at catchweights?

Pacquiao had already establish his name and legend early in his career. Demolishing Barrera and Morales who are the real big names in his resume not Oscar or Cotto. Then there's this close win and draw against Marquez who was at his best and proper weightclass. Everything else after that is a bonus for us fans. I just wanted to clarify this post. Chups, You say Pacquiao's wins over Barrera and Morales make him a legend? I agree that Barrera was a great win but the Morales wins don't mean anything because Erik was years past his prime and had to kill himself to make 130. He was also coming off a lopsided decision loss to Zahir Raheem at 135 and Pacquiao fought the LOSER of the fight at 130. Why didnt he fight Raheem? Why not fight the best? Morales was clearly finished. The video below shows highlights of Erik Morales being dominated by Zahir Raheem, before the Pacquiao rematch. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uB1vqJj9GvI Morales was clearly finished, and the "win" over Marquez means nothing as the majority of people believe that Marquez won that fight. Even Fillipino sports analyst Ronnie Nathaniesz admitted that Pacquiao lost that fight. I actually rate Barrera highly but ok Pacquiao beat him twice, Junior Jones also beat him twice. Does that make him a legend? He beat Barrera twice and lost to Morales just like Pacquiao. I think to be a legend you have to consistently beat the best in your era. And as I have already proved, Mayweather has done this. Pacquiao has not. He's fought damaged opponents at catchweights, This does not make you a legend, It makes you a bitch.

Well, you do understand the other fighters have the choice to sign or not to fight @ a catchweight. By your logic of fighters being washed up after comming off losses, im guessing you will then agree to Manny being a washed up fighter just beating other washed up fighters. washed up and weight drained to make it more clear. will the first one you can make a soild argurement, but the 2nd like stated above is up to the other fighter to make that choice. To me Manny is just going belt hunting, while floyd kicks back. Manny will make history floyd can keep his 0 like Joe Calzaghe and be forgotten. It seems you have much time on your hands to call Mannys record into question, maybe because your boy floyd wount be fighting to next year. P.S. In the end who really gives a crap. I'm always game for a good fight to watch on a sat. I'm sorry but your argument is a flawed one. Pacquiao has lost but he is fighting people who are COMING off knockout losses. I think you are confusing fighting people with losses and fighting people who have just lost, They are two very different things. My problem is that Pacquiao, For all the credit he gets is just fighting washed up, damaged opponents at catchweights. People are always real hard on Floyd Mayweather but he has beaten the best in 5 divisions. Pacquiao has only beaten the best in two or 3 divisions. Of course I think Floyd has the better resume but that's not the point, The point is that Pacquiao gets way too much credit for fighting hand-picked, damaged opponents at catchweights. And Mayweather gets no credit for consistently beating the best throughout his career. Manny isnt hunting anything, He just does whatever Bob Arum wants him to do. The whole belt thing means nothing anyway, Because he has won vacant belts and won belts at catchweights. Belts are just belts, At the end of the day it's about who you fight and who you beat. And the people that Pacquiao has been and will continue to fight cannot be considered as "the best" by anyone. Mayweather has always fought and beat the best.

Futhermore, people are (including me) are frustrated with the double standards. Pac and Top Rank have done some very questionable things; legitimizing fights by bending rules so that they can reap the benefits. It's one thing to adminster catch weights, but to request titles on the line in these "manny weights" is upsurd. Although it takes two to agree, it's hard to make a decision when Arum is the overseer of all the fights (TOP RANK FIGHTERS). I can only imagine the reprecussions of declining to put up the title. (Oh yeah, the greedy sanctioning bodies make one up!) Or possibly strip your title. It's crazy now in the sport of boxing, but as of right now? Mayweather has the bargaining power, and Top Rank knows it. Pac's attemp to "blast" through Margo is only a mere attempt to gain more of an edge in a third bidding war against Mayweather. It's Mayweather's move next...and so far he's had the right stance.

People need to realise that it's not Floyd's fault that Baldomir beat Judah and became #1. The bottom line is that he was the best and that Floyd beat him easily, Even if you think Baldomir beating Judah was a fluke. Floyd went and beat Judah aswell. He deserves much more credit than he gets, And I dont buy the idea that he was "forced" to fight Mosley. Floyd can fight me or you and still make millions, He wanted to fight Mosley because he was regarded as the best. People hate on Floyd when he beats the best and then praise Pacquiao for not fighting the best. I just dont understand this. And the JMM fight, People will say it's a joke now but before many people gave Marquez a real chance based on what he did to Pacquiao. Yes he was a smaller man but other fighters have gone from 135 to 147 and been successful. Roberto Duran and Shane Mosley are two examples, I just think there is a general hate for Floyd Mayweather and I cant understand why. Ok his persona is annoying but he has achieved a hell of a lot in the game and doesnt get enough credit. It annoys me, and the excuses are pathetic. They say Marquez was too small and Floyd outweighed him by 4lbs but De La Hoya outweighed Mayweather by 4lbs and lost. I hate all the excuses. I just wish they could give him the credit he deserves because Pacquiao gets alot more credit for achieving alot less. I hear you bro. I never said Baldomir's victory was a fluke. I just simply meant Mayweather chose to fight Baldomir, when he could've fought a Cotto, or Margarito(which had the WBO WW title at that time). Margarito was considered a huge threat in the division then. I give him credit for the Judah fight. I'm sure many others did too. It was well deserved. I'm sorry to say many people feel like he had no choice but to fight Mosley. His reputation was at stake (Pac went on to fight Clottey). If Mayweather went on to fight a Hatton (which was considered at the time). He would've received a lot of sh*t from the media. Don't get me wrong. I gave props for Mayweather doing what he did. It was great! It really helped him establish credibility, and lost that "cherry picker" title he had for so long. JMM - Look, it wasn't right to come in over weight on the established weight limit on a guy making his 140+lbs debut. It was unproffessional. Secondly JMM did have a fighting chance at Mayweather, as he impressively beat up Pac in the two fights, a victory seemed plausible. I think his victory would've meant more if he had made the weight IMO.

Well, you do understand the other fighters have the choice to sign or not to fight @ a catchweight. By your logic of fighters being washed up after comming off losses, im guessing you will then agree to Manny being a washed up fighter just beating other washed up fighters. washed up and weight drained to make it more clear. will the first one you can make a soild argurement, but the 2nd like stated above is up to the other fighter to make that choice. To me Manny is just going belt hunting, while floyd kicks back. Manny will make history floyd can keep his 0 like Joe Calzaghe and be forgotten. It seems you have much time on your hands to call Mannys record into question, maybe because your boy floyd wount be fighting to next year. P.S. In the end who really gives a crap. I'm always game for a good fight to watch on a sat.

Now generally your post makes a great point. I believe many people feel the same way (depending on where you stand as a fan). However, Mayweather isn't an honest abe! The campaign at 147 is debatable, although Baldomir was in fact A person to beat at 147, he wasn't the very best. Cotto was a legit threat at the time. As a matter of fact, Cotto was also a profitable force. Moreover, I commend Mayweather fighting Mosley, but because of the PAC/Mayweather fallout, Mayweather had no choice but to fight Mosley. Not to say he was forced, but anyone else at that time was laughable. Anyway I stand on the side of what is right. In this case I disagree with many things Pac has done the past 4 years. I disagree with many things Mayweather has done...in this current situation Mayweather IMO has done the right thing, stand his ground and has legitamately fought competition at the reported weight (w/the exception of JMM - That was WRONG). Just be careful with selecting your facts, because as my boy HORUS said...telling half truths is telling a whole lie! lol:boxing: People need to realise that it's not Floyd's fault that Baldomir beat Judah and became #1. The bottom line is that he was the best and that Floyd beat him easily, Even if you think Baldomir beating Judah was a fluke. Floyd went and beat Judah aswell. He deserves much more credit than he gets, And I dont buy the idea that he was "forced" to fight Mosley. Floyd can fight me or you and still make millions, He wanted to fight Mosley because he was regarded as the best. People hate on Floyd when he beats the best and then praise Pacquiao for not fighting the best. I just dont understand this. And the JMM fight, People will say it's a joke now but before many people gave Marquez a real chance based on what he did to Pacquiao. Yes he was a smaller man but other fighters have gone from 135 to 147 and been successful. Roberto Duran and Shane Mosley are two examples, I just think there is a general hate for Floyd Mayweather and I cant understand why. Ok his persona is annoying but he has achieved a hell of a lot in the game and doesnt get enough credit. It annoys me, and the excuses are pathetic. They say Marquez was too small and Floyd outweighed him by 4lbs but De La Hoya outweighed Mayweather by 4lbs and lost. I hate all the excuses. I just wish they could give him the credit he deserves because Pacquiao gets alot more credit for achieving alot less.

Let's compare them... Pacquiao - 122 - Yes - He fought Ledwaba who was a solid fighter and champion, But he didnt clean out the division like Mayweather did at 130. 126 - Yes he beat Barrera who was the king of 126 130 - NO, He fought a washed up Morales who was coming off a lopsided decision loss to Raheem. He also lost to Morales at this weight. 135 - NO, He fought David Diaz and did not fight the legit guys like Juan Diaz and Joel Casamayor. Diaz was not considered the best Lightweight. 140 - Yes, He beat Hatton. Albeit a damaged Hatton 147 - No, He beat a plastered Cotto, Drained De La Hoya and Joshua Clottey. Many believe the fight with Clottey was fixed but it doesnt matter. He wasnt considered the best anyway. Mayweather - 130 - Yes - He beat Genaro Hernandez who was considered a very good fighter who had only lost to a prime Oscar De La Hoya and beat Azumah Nelson. Mayweather also destroyed Diego Corrales and beat former/future champs Gregorio Vargas, Jesus Chavez and Carlos Hernandez. 135 - Yes - Moved up and immediately beat the #1 Lightweight Jose Luis Castillo is a controversial win. But then silenced his critics by decisively winning the rematch. His other two wins were against Victoriano Sosa and Phillip Ndou. Both solid fighters but not quite on the level of Castillo. 140 - Yes - He Moved up again and beat former champion DeMarcus "Chop Chop" Corley by a lopsided decision. Followed it up with an easy win over Henry Bruseles and then crushed popular Future Hall of Famer and reigning WBC champion Arturo "Thunder" Gatti in 6 rounds. 147 - Yes - Beat former 140lb champ Sharmba Mitchell by brutal 6th round TKO and then beat former Undisputed Welterweight champ Zab Judah. Then beat WBC Champion Carlos Baldomir who had just defeated Judah and had not lost in almost 9 years. Mayweather also defeated future Hall of Famer and #1 ranked WBA Welterweight champion "Sugar" Shane Mosley by lopsided decision in May 2010. 154 - Yes - Beat Future Hall of Famer and #1 ranked Super Welterweight champion Oscar "Golden Boy" De La Hoya. Oscar was coming off a very impressive knockout win over Mayorga and was fighting Floyd at his best and most comfortable weight class. But lost a split decision. This underlines my point that Floyd has always fought the best in every division he has fought in. Pacquiao has not done this, I am a big Mayweather fan but i'm not being biased. This is the truth, What I posted is the truth. Now generally your post makes a great point. I believe many people feel the same way (depending on where you stand as a fan). However, Mayweather isn't an honest abe! The campaign at 147 is debatable, although Baldomir was in fact A person to beat at 147, he wasn't the very best. Cotto was a legit threat at the time. As a matter of fact, Cotto was also a profitable force. Moreover, I commend Mayweather fighting Mosley, but because of the PAC/Mayweather fallout, Mayweather had no choice but to fight Mosley. Not to say he was forced, but anyone else at that time was laughable. Anyway I stand on the side of what is right. In this case I disagree with many things Pac has done the past 4 years. I disagree with many things Mayweather has done...in this current situation Mayweather IMO has done the right thing, stand his ground and has legitamately fought competition at the reported weight (w/the exception of JMM - That was WRONG). Just be careful with selecting your facts, because as my boy HORUS said...telling half truths is telling a whole lie! lol:boxing:

Floyd's wins against the "great" Baldomir and a come a loss Judah isn't exactly super either. A past prime Oscar and a 38 year old Mosley is even worse. Then the rest of his earlier fights aren't even HOF. Pacquiao had already establish his name and legend early in his career. Demolishing Barrera and Morales who are the real big names in his resume not Oscar or Cotto. Then there's this close win and draw against Marquez who was at his best and proper weightclass. Everything else after that is a bonus for us fans. I'm sorry Chups but I can't take your post seriously, I wish I could but it's clear you just love Pacquiao and defend his every move. You can't look at the situation objectively for whatever reason. Nothing against you, But I know your also a mod on "Pacland's Phillipine boxing forum". My overall point is to get rid of the myth that Pacquiao fights the best. He does not, You dont even have to mention Floyd. But if you are going to then be serious about it. Whether you want to admit it or not, Floyd has beaten the best in every weight class and almost all of them were coming off impressive wins. It doesnt matter what you think of Baldomir, He was the best welterweight and Floyd beat him. Likewise with Mosley. Stats dont lie, Look at Manny's record and you will see most of his best wins were against opponents who were coming off losses. You admitted that Morales was one of his biggest wins, And that was straight after Morales had been dominated by Zahir Raheem in a lopsided loss. How do situations like this make you a "legend"? I don't understand.

The non biased intelligent posters agree with me. That feels good. I just wish the Pacquiao fans could come out and admit that he doesnt fight the best and that Floyd does. Your seriously delusional if you really think David Diaz is the best Lightweight of this era and that Pacquiao has fought the best at 130 and 147. He has NOT. But I guess it's too hard for some people to understand certain things. Even if they may seem easy to understand.

Because it's the same thing with you over and over again, he was weight drained, he was old, he was damaged goods. I just can't take your opinion seriously if everything is gonna just be based on some dillusional excuse. In otherwords if you are gonna have an excuse everytime Pac beats someone whats the point in discussing anything with you or even taking you seriously. He could beat Chad dawson and you would still find some dillusional way to discredit him. It's childish! Your obviously a pactard! I don't make excuses for his opponents, I'm just stating the truth. We have all these threads here saying that Mayweather is a ducker etc etc and he doesnt fight the best. Well iv'e proved that to be blatantly false, Mayweather does fight the best and Pacquiao does not. This is the truth, Whichever way you want to look at it. If Pacquiao didnt fight people at catchweights, fight them coming off KO losses etc etc. Then I wouldnt be able to complain, It's a fact that Pacquiao fights damaged opponents and does NOT fight the best. Even though he says things like "I want to prove im the best" but he doesnt fight the best. So he doesnt deserve to be called the best. Your obviously biased. So i'll just leave it at that.

You have no idea what you are talking about Floyd Fought one catchweight fight with JMM and thats it His Fight in 08 with Oscar was at 154 the weight Oscar fought previously and beat Ricardo Mayorga so it wasnt a cathweight Floyd chose to come in at 150 I beleive but oscar weighed 154. lets look at manny fighting the best that the division has to offer 135 he fought David Diaz he was not even the best Diaz in the division at that time I beleive Joel Casamayor was the best 140 manny fought Hatton-great win 147 you are right he hasnt fought the best 154 he is fighting a fighter that is going to be fighing only his 3rd fight at that weight not a reckognized champ for a vacant belt If manny was fighting the best as you claim he would have fought 135-Casamayor 147-SSM 154-Sergio Martinez sorry but Im going to have to disagree with your claim that manny has fought the best the division has to offer he was not even the best Diaz in the division hhah thats funny!

well manny beat the best at the time in every division he has fought in except welterweight, which you name mayweather and berto... But mayweather always fights at catch weights too like marquez ( which he was even over weight for his catchweight) and de la hoya which really wasn't his weight class either the best I guess fight at any weight class and if ur really good the weight won't make a difference! Berto is the exception but he hasn't fougt a top 5 welterweight yet which is only partially his fault, he asks for too much! But I still think manny and mayweather are the best and they have to fight at 147 to prove who is better! You have no idea what you are talking about Floyd Fought one catchweight fight with JMM and thats it His Fight in 08 with Oscar was at 154 the weight Oscar fought previously and beat Ricardo Mayorga so it wasnt a cathweight Floyd chose to come in at 150 I beleive but oscar weighed 154. lets look at manny fighting the best that the division has to offer 135 he fought David Diaz he was not even the best Diaz in the division at that time I beleive Joel Casamayor was the best 140 manny fought Hatton-great win 147 you are right he hasnt fought the best 154 he is fighting a fighter that is going to be fighing only his 3rd fight at that weight not a reckognized champ for a vacant belt If manny was fighting the best as you claim he would have fought 135-Casamayor 147-SSM 154-Sergio Martinez sorry but Im going to have to disagree with your claim that manny has fought the best the division has to offer

well manny beat the best at the time in every division he has fought in except welterweight, which you name mayweather and berto... But mayweather always fights at catch weights too like marquez ( which he was even over weight for his catchweight) and de la hoya which really wasn't his weight class either the best I guess fight at any weight class and if ur really good the weight won't make a difference! Berto is the exception but he hasn't fougt a top 5 welterweight yet which is only partially his fault, he asks for too much! But I still think manny and mayweather are the best and they have to fight at 147 to prove who is better!

Well it's obvious Cotto is gonna rehydrate and outweigh Pac anywhere from 12-15 pounds. The catchweight was just set to limit how much Pac would be outweighed by come fight night. I don't think there is anything unreasonable about that. Clottey is a much bigger WW than Cotto so why would he do that to Cotto but not to a bigger WW in Clottey? Maybe because Clottey isnt as dangerous as mosrt people make his sound like

I didnt say those guys werent good fighters, But none of them were considered the best when Pacquiao fought them. This is my problem with Pacquiao and what his fans (Pactards) say about Floyd. They say Floyd doesnt fight the best, He picks his fights and Manny fights the best. This is false, Mayweather has fought and beaten 5 official champions in 5 different divisions. He has fought and beat the best, Wheras Pacquiao has ducked the best and cherry picked people coming off losses. Sometimes even at catchweights for vacant belts. Mayweather never fought for vacant belts, He always moved up and beat the best. Pacquiao has done the exact opposite of this. Just a few examples... He fought Morales after Morales was dominated by Zahir Raheem. Why didnt he fight Raheem? Morales was clearly finished! He fought Cotto after he was brutalised by Margarito, Why didnt he fight Mosley who was considered the best after destroying Margarito? The answer is in my sig, Roach claimed Mosley was "Too good of a fighter" He's now fighting Margarito who is coming off the huge KO loss to Mosley, As if that isnt bad enough he's fighting him for a vacant belt at a catchweight. Mayweather never pulls bullshit like this, As I have already explained. He just moves up and beats the best. Margarito is NOT considered the best by any boxing fans....Hell, NOBODY cares about him anymore. But since he is promoted by Top Rank and will fight for peanuts..... When has Mayweather blatantly ducked fighters like that? Never. The only fighter who Mayweather fought who was coming off a loss was Zab Judah. People were saying "Fight Baldomir" and then he won every round against Baldomir to make the point. Floyd HAS beaten the best, Pacquiao has not. Thank you! The media has really blinded the masses with hate that most could'nt even see their hands in front of their face

Pac is fighting three welterweights in a row that Floyd never fought. I think thats why he's getting more credit. who cares if Floyd didnt fight them we can say the same about Pac Floyd just fought SSM a fighter that pacs trainer himself said was too good for pac Floyd fought JMM a fighter Pac has avoided for the past few years -it was a bs fight and Floyd didnt make weight (totally unprofessional) Like I said before To me Pac is just another really good fighter he wont be special until he fights someone with speed and power that matches his own as for Floyd he needs to fight someone with speed and footwork to match his own

Yeah an none of that can be proven it's all speculation that just boils down to an excuse. Barrera was coming of a career best win over the top featherweight at the time (Hamed) and Manny demolished him but Im sure you are gonna come up with this whole he's past his prime nonsense. Mab was in his prime to me and i think that is pac best win..but morales was past his prime in all three pac fights

prime morales would demolish a c fighter like raheem....come on now. pac beat a faded morales and there is no way around it. people shit on floyd for fighting judah coming off a lost but manny gets praise for beating morales who was more past his prime. morales had been in ton of wars before pac/em 2. Yeah an none of that can be proven it's all speculation that just boils down to an excuse. Barrera was coming of a career best win over the top featherweight at the time (Hamed) and Manny demolished him but Im sure you are gonna come up with this whole he's past his prime nonsense.

Thanks for keeping it real See I ask other pac fans the same question and you are the first to answer it I have a question though If its only 2 pounds and is as insignificant as you claim then why not fight at 147 period? WHy the catch weight? Well it's obvious Cotto is gonna rehydrate and outweigh Pac anywhere from 12-15 pounds. The catchweight was just set to limit how much Pac would be outweighed by come fight night. I don't think there is anything unreasonable about that.

yeah but Baldo was the lineal champ and Mosley just looked like a beast the fight before wouldnt you want pac to take on a real challenge at this stage in his career? he is peaking and he needs better fights than stationary no defense fighters you discredit Floyds win over Oscar but that oscar wasnt as washed up as the oscar that fought Manny plus Floyd went up to 154 to fight him no questions asked something manny cant do to me they are both cherry pickers but because pac fights a more appealing style he gets more credit for his wins when they are just as garbage as Floyds Pac is fighting three welterweights in a row that Floyd never fought. I think thats why he's getting more credit.