Without the Pacquiao hate. Can anybody here deny Greatness to Freddie Roach?

No, simply because his stable has a reputation for housing roided stallions. And theres nothing cool about taking punishment as floyd mayweather says look at him hes punch drunk to ****, talks shit about fighters he's guys won't fight, says cottos shot after the foreman win like to see pacquiao take on a 154 healthy miguel instead of a weight drained 144 punchbag,and the possibilty his fighters past and present (Pac and Toney) were /are juicing have lost a lot of respect for Freddie might be because im a floyd fan :boxing:

Freddie's a hell of a trainer. I think what makes him so good is that he knows fighters because he was one. You have trainers that can guide you, but have never been in there to experience what happens when things don't go your way and how to adapt. Seeing what he's done with Pacquiao, and as of recent Amir Khan (zip up your pants Wazaa...) and now JJC Jr, you gotta give the guy a lot of credit love him or hate him.

He's definitely a great matchmaker, there's no doubt about that.

He's a very good trainer but an even better matchmaker Having said that, I still think he is the best trainer of his generation.

hes a great match maker for picking fighters that arent 100% did you read the thread title?

Yes, he is a great trainer as well. He's just dumb as shit. Fair enough so is roach but both show ingenuity when it comes to boxing stategy. It particularly annoys me that on these threads he gets no credit for being a trainer. peace

I'm gona say yes he is.

floyd sr is a great trainer. Yes, he is a great trainer as well. He's just dumb as shit.

That's because some posters just jump at anything. I honestly thought you were like that at first. Not every critical point is negative. I thought the point here is to discuss things. The point is as good as any trainer is, he must be able to get his fighter to beat their opponent. Roach has done wonders with Manny. But don't discount the fact that top rank and bob goodman are SUPERIOR IN EVERY WAY to Murad Muhammad. Agreed. Don't let my sig fool you.

Floyd Sr.??? He brought Hatton to the mountains to train, taught him to look up the lights in round 2 and make him ponder on his career up to this point. floyd sr is a great trainer.

I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that he os training very talented guys to begin with and tweaking what needs to be tweaked. I know the obvious accusations regarding Pac but I personally have seen a dramatic improvement in Manny's boxing abilities. He used to throw the left and that was his entire arsenal but now he slips, feints, moves in and out and ducks when he punches. His foot work is very impressive I think and if you watch his latest fights with some of his fights 8 years ago or so, it looks like a different guy in the ring. I think that there is a reason why so many boxers want to be trained by him. Of course I'm ready for the Ariza's magic shakes reply as I'm sure that's what is really going on, lol.

That is discrediting his resume as well. And when those points are brought up to fans of a specific fighter, a debate usually arises. That's because some posters just jump at anything. I honestly thought you were like that at first. Not every critical point is negative. I thought the point here is to discuss things. The point is as good as any trainer is, he must be able to get his fighter to beat their opponent. Roach has done wonders with Manny. But don't discount the fact that top rank and bob goodman are SUPERIOR IN EVERY WAY to Murad Muhammad.

Zahir's win against Morales doesn't change the fact that he was mediocre against Freitas and boring as hell too. Manny coming up from 135 to 154 to fight Oscar... funny and illogical don't you think? And this after Oscar preached to the world "what was I doing at 154? This is my best weight. I feel great at this weight (147)!" Who would have known Manny would rape Oscar? It seems everyone on this forum bet on Oscar killing Manny with that left hook. Exactly! Business wise any of these decision would be stupid IMO. The point is Roach is a great trainer. In manny's case he has a great trainer and a HOF matchmaker. I think matchmaking has been a strong element of manny's success. doesn't take anything away from Roach.

Floyd Sr.??? He brought Hatton to the mountains to train, taught him to look up the lights in round 2 and make him ponder on his career up to this point. :lol1: I can understand if someone said that freddie wasn't the best trainer of our era.. but to question his greatness? Some of these dudes are ridiculous.

I get what you are saying. Point taken. If you can't even admit that 'smart matchmaking' or 'careful matchmaking' is discrediting a fighters resume, we will just have to agree to disagree. What if I say it like this. Floyd fighting gatti who wasnt the best 140 lb for ppv money. floyd fighting Hatton when Hatton is coming up to 147. Floyd going to 154 to make $25 mil vs ODh rather than $8 mil to fight marg at 147. Floyd fighting Baldomir for 147 lineal champ instead of Marg. floyd fighting Castillo (lineal champ) at 135 in 1st fight at weight. That is discrediting his resume as well. And when those points are brought up to fans of a specific fighter, a debate usually arises.

Who do you see as a great trainer? Floyd Sr.??? He brought Hatton to the mountains to train, taught him to look up the lights in round 2 and make him ponder on his career up to this point.

I get what you are saying. Point taken. If you can't even admit that 'smart matchmaking' or 'careful matchmaking' is discrediting a fighters resume, we will just have to agree to disagree. What if I say it like this. Floyd fighting gatti who wasnt the best 140 lb for ppv money. floyd fighting Hatton when Hatton is coming up to 147. Floyd going to 154 to make $25 mil vs ODh rather than $8 mil to fight marg at 147. Floyd fighting Baldomir for 147 lineal champ instead of Marg. floyd fighting Castillo (lineal champ) at 135 in 1st fight at weight.

I'm not discrediting Pac achievements. If you take it like that its on you. Never taking it personal just don't know why any question about pac is equated to disrespect by his fans on this boord. Smart matchmaking is not just who you pick and chose. For example Manny was smart to fight Morales again instead of Zahir Raheem. More money less risk. When manny fought david diaz he was not the best lw in the world. But he got equal money for less risk. Cotto at 145 instead of 147. ODH at 147 instead of 154. Hatton after floyd Ko'd him. Big money fights where manny's team used its negotiating position wisely. Zahir's win against Morales doesn't change the fact that he was mediocre against Freitas and boring as hell too. Manny coming up from 135 to 154 to fight Oscar... funny and illogical don't you think? And this after Oscar preached to the world "what was I doing at 154? This is my best weight. I feel great at this weight (147)!" Who would have known Manny would rape Oscar? It seems everyone on this forum bet on Oscar killing Manny with that left hook.

There's no doubt he's a great match-maker. A great trainer? I'm not so sure. Who do you see as a great trainer?

I'm not discrediting Pac achievements. If you take it like that its on you. Never taking it personal just don't know why any question about pac is equated to disrespect by his fans on this boord. Ok. Fans of any fighter would look at it the same way. Proof is all over this messageboard. :chomp: Smart matchmaking is not just who you pick and chose. For example Manny was smart to fight Morales again instead of Zahir Raheem. More money less risk. When manny fought david diaz he was not the best lw in the world. But he got equal money for less risk. Cotto at 145 instead of 147. ODH at 147 instead of 154. Hatton after floyd Ko'd him. Big money fights where manny's team used its negotiating position wisely. I get what you are saying. Point taken. If you can't even admit that 'smart matchmaking' or 'careful matchmaking' is discrediting a fighters resume, we will just have to agree to disagree.