Why does Hagler get a pass for never moving up in weight?

Almost all the great fighters outside of the heavyweight division have moved up the scale to test themselves at one point or another. I know the excuse will be he was waiting on Leonard and Hearns to come up to 16olbs to make big money fights, that's fine, but they weren't gonna test him physically. He could've fought Spinks, Qawi, Saad Muhammad. Mustafa Muhammad, or any of the top rated lightheavys of his time, but he just feasted on the 160lbs division and never challenged himself. Guys who move up multiple weight classes and eventually lose to naturally bigger men as a result get criticized harshly, but shouldn't they be given credit for testing their physical limits? Hagler as great as he was didn't risk himself. Roy Jones couldv'e starved himself and feasted on the middleweight division for over 20 years, but he went above and beyond and eventually annihilated a solid heavyweight. Even Hopkins is testing himself now at higher weights. Roy Jones(154-Heavyweight), Leonard(147-168), Hearns,(147-190) Pacquiao,(106-147) Mayweather(130-154) Hopkins(175-160-175) James Toney(160-heavyweight) Sugar Ray Robinson(147-175) Duran(135-168) MARVIN HAGLER (160) Fans need to give more credit to the men who beat naturally bigger fighters. So you view not having moved up as a "blight" on a fighters career? Being dominant at different classes is not a pre-requisite to achieve greatness. As far as MW goes MMH was a small MW. Irregardless he ruled his division with an iron fist for the better part of a decade. Him not having to move up as he aged is testament to hiw work ethic and being in shape on a consistent basis.

I'm not saying your wrong, but to me it's all about the level of opposition. Right now we have 2 unknown title holders at WW. I wouldn't think much of Hatton or any of the top Jr WWs if they beat those 2. Exactly. Hagler beating Hearns,Hamsho, or Bennie Brisco is a lot more impressive than a 140 pound champion beating the weakest belt holder at 147.Or more recent Cotto beating Yuri Foreman.

IMO It is a lot harder to hold on and own a division than it is to go up and win a belt IE Pacman. Diaz, Hatton, and Cotto weren't the champs of the division, yet he got love as the number one of every division. If Pacman stuck around 130 example. Valero Baby Bull Guzman Soto Juarez All examples of good fighters that would have given him problems at lower weights, though those are spread through 2 weight classes. If Mosley stuck around at 135: PBF Corrales Castillo Casemayor If DLH stuck around at 130-135: He would have had all the same fighters as Mosley. Seriously some of these would have been real classics. The most recent fighter of the lower weight classes to not move up and own a division was KT. Hopkins was another. I seriously think that a lot of people don't realize how much harder it is to stay disciplined and in shape and not move up in weight. Owning a division for a long period of time is insane. Cleaning out a division is far more impressive to me than anything Pacman ever did(moving all over to me means nothing if you have never beat "The Champ" of the division. PBF did it at both 130 and 135, after that he was a cherry picking king.

winning despite size is a great barometer of greatness in this sport. it isn't the end all be all, but it separates the Hatton's from the Armstrongs. I'm not saying your wrong, but to me it's all about the level of opposition. Right now we have 2 unknown title holders at WW. I wouldn't think much of Hatton or any of the top Jr WWs if they beat those 2.

It's insane to think that someone who weighs in at 157 to 158 at MW, should move all the way up to LHW. You have to take Hagler's size into consideration. Disagree with the bold, look at all the weak champions we have today. winning despite size is a great barometer of greatness in this sport. it isn't the end all be all, but it separates the Hatton's from the Armstrongs.

Fighters who are able to eschew weight classes and win despite size differentials are CLEARLY superior to those who cannot. Whether it is because they make the sacrifice to squeeze down or move up, winning at multiple weights separates fighters IMO. It's insane to think that someone who weighs in at 157 to 158 at MW, should move all the way up to LHW. You have to take Hagler's size into consideration. Disagree with the bold, look at all the weak champions we have today.

Why should anyone? The weight classes are there for fighters of that particular size to fight in. He was the best MW of his time, so what if he didn't want to move up? It is absolutely asking too much of fighters to go out of where they physically belong against fighters who they are at a disadvantage against. Fighters who are able to eschew weight classes and win despite size differentials are CLEARLY superior to those who cannot. Whether it is because they make the sacrifice to squeeze down or move up, winning at multiple weights separates fighters IMO.

For me it's a non issue. Carlos Monzon was a bigger Middleweight than Hagler. But I don't hold against him that he never moved up and fought Bob Foster. And like Hagler, some of his biggest wins were against fighter's that moved up. Doesn't change his legacy as far as I'm concerned. Monzon was freaking HUGE :rofl: I was watching some of his fights about a week ago and DAMN.

schooling tarver was an example of this? the point giver is an example of giving points to those in need. enjoy the points, young considerthis.

Both Spinks and Qawi called him out, but he wasnt interested in moving up. He also called out Duran, Benitez, Leonard and Hearns He shouldnt get a pass imo, but he was a great fighter so maybe thats why he gets a pass Hopkins isnt exactly testing himself, his basically fighting smaller fighters at a higher weight schooling tarver was an example of this?

THIS IS ONE OF MY FAVORITE TOPICS. Both Mike Spinks and Dwight Quai wanted Marvin, and Marvin never budged. He made his bones and his legacy at 160, but it needs to be accounted for that he never challenged himself against bigger men. For me it's a non issue. Carlos Monzon was a bigger Middleweight than Hagler. But I don't hold against him that he never moved up and fought Bob Foster. And like Hagler, some of his biggest wins were against fighter's that moved up. Doesn't change his legacy as far as I'm concerned.

How many fights did he make a "war of attrition" or a "battle of wills"? Out of his 12 successful title defenses, the only fights had fit this description are his last two. He was more of a "classical boxer" in most of his fights than a guy who went into "wars of attrition". He'd outbox his opponents behind the jab, break them down, and stop them. Or if he'd hurt them, he'd jump on them. But he was first and foremost a boxer for the great majority of his career. Very true and well said. Hagler's first fight with Mustafa Hamsho was a boxing clinic from Hagler. That's just one example.

And BTW, Quai and Spinks both wax Marvin.

THIS IS ONE OF MY FAVORITE TOPICS. Both Mike Spinks and Dwight Quai wanted Marvin, and Marvin never budged. He made his bones and his legacy at 160, but it needs to be accounted for that he never challenged himself against bigger men.

Just because he's from back then, it seems that in order to be called an ATG you must be from way back then or else you are not ATG material. That's the idiotic way of thinking around here by some cunts in this forum.

I don't understand how any of you can say that staying in one division your whole career and fighting (often naturally lighter fighters) isn't less impressive than moving up in weight and fighting bigger people, all other things equal. That's just not a credible argument. There are other ways to defend Hagler's greatness.

Some fighters are better suited to moving up than others. Guys who are classic boxers will always be more successful when moving up than someone like Hagler who basically made every fight a war of attrition and a battle of wills. His style wasn't conducive to jumping to 175, and 168 didn't exist for much of his career. If anything Hagler should be applauded for only fighting in a weight division where he was giving his very best effort every single time he was in the ring. What isn't being said in this thread is that often fighters move up in weight because they grow lazy about diet and training and don't really want to put forth the effort to make weight. Usually when they move up they take a hand picked opponent and not the very best the next division has to offer. Hagler just wasn't that kind of fighter. His discipline and focus are legendary by any standard. How many fights did he make a "war of attrition" or a "battle of wills"? Out of his 12 successful title defenses, the only fights had fit this description are his last two. He was more of a "classical boxer" in most of his fights than a guy who went into "wars of attrition". He'd outbox his opponents behind the jab, break them down, and stop them. Or if he'd hurt them, he'd jump on them. But he was first and foremost a boxer for the great majority of his career.

Some fighters are better suited to moving up than others. Guys who are classic boxers will always be more successful when moving up than someone like Hagler who basically made every fight a war of attrition and a battle of wills. His style wasn't conducive to jumping to 175, and 168 didn't exist for much of his career. If anything Hagler should be applauded for only fighting in a weight division where he was giving his very best effort every single time he was in the ring. What isn't being said in this thread is that often fighters move up in weight because they grow lazy about diet and training and don't really want to put forth the effort to make weight. Usually when they move up they take a hand picked opponent and not the very best the next division has to offer. Hagler just wasn't that kind of fighter. His discipline and focus are legendary by any standard.

Moving up is kinda overrated these days, as long as you're not killing yourself to make weight I don't see anything wrong with staying in one weight class. Clean up your weight class or move up if your body has outgrow the weight.

this topic is LAUGHABLE! Boxing then wasn't like boxing is now, not only that but most guys today Move Up for more MONEY or because the division they are in is so bad that they have to move up or down to get bigger fights, Hagler actually had competition so it was no need to move up, his last fight was against Sugar Ray Leonard so why would he move up when he had guys to fight like Hearns, John Mugabi and Leonard, come to think of it...those was the last 3 fights of his amazing career you can questions guys of this current ERA all you want but you cannot question someones like Hagler's career because Hagler never ran from ANYONE, he fought and beat the best (YES INCLUDING LEONARD!!! even though he didn't get the win)