Proof pac is on steriods!!!

jordan is great, no one's denying that. greater than kobe? most ppl would say so. but to say that he was never bailed out by teammates is being very naive. every single great has been bailed out by teammates at some point in their careers. two greats that haven't been bailed out are tiger woods and roger federer. with that said, what sticks out to me about kobe last night is he tried too hard, especially early on to carry his team which caused him to take terrible shots. but when he realized it wasn't happening, he contributed in other aspects and also got his teammates involved. that's what great players do. i worshipped jordan when he was playing but smart enough to understand that comparing these 2 or any of the atgs for that matter would boil down to a matter of opinion. so don't talk like it's fact that 1 player is better than the other.

Pippen was a true great but he disappeared in crunch time a lot. In fact, he was labeled as soft. Oakley owned him, Xavier McDaniel, hell even John Starks. Pippen wasn't that tough and that hurt him big time in the playoffs. soft or not.pippen was a great defender.i think that what he's known for aside for being mj's sidekick.that and the big as knot in his head during the playoffs after he got elbowed

i ain't saying kobe is better than jordan. resumewise and numbers wise jordan was superior. i just don't like when people say jordan wouldn't have been this , jordan didn't need this , jordan wouldn't have done that , jordan did it by himself....... i seem to remember jordan retiring and the same damn team WITHOUT jordan winning 50+ games and almost getting to the finals. i seem to remember jordan's teammates stepping up and helping jordan in playoff games when jordan had a bad night. i don't know. maybe my memory is wrong. or maybe......i don't base my knowledge of jordan off of nike commercials. Pippen was a true great but he disappeared in crunch time a lot. In fact, he was labeled as soft. Oakley owned him, Xavier McDaniel, hell even John Starks. Pippen wasn't that tough and that hurt him big time in the playoffs.

10-15 times a game. they wore striped uniforms. Same can be said about kobe, if he doesn't get that whistle he will throw a hissy fit!...because it can't be that he just missed!:crying:

i think the defenders today are overall better defenders only b/c the rules favor the offense.i think back then it was just a diff way of defending b/c like yousaid they didnt have to worry about suspensions.i dont know how well bill laimbeer and rick mahorn would do w/these rules. blame pat riley and the knicks. god that was awful basketball.

jordan also didn't face the defenses or defenders kobe faced. how many athletic 6'6-6'8 defenders were in the league at the time? jordan ever face different types of zones? jordan ever get doubled without the ball? just playing devil's advocate. i don't really give a damn if jordan is 1000 times better than kobe. all i know is kobe has given MY team 5 titles. only 1 less than jordan has and he's not done. i don't give a shit if jordan is 10000000 times better. if kobe gives los angeles more titles than jordan gave chicago , i'll take that. Kobe gave los angeles two titles!... the other three were by shaq, shaq was in his prime then. Would kobe have won titles with out shaq at that time, I don't think so....Just my thoughts bro!:omfg:

defenders back then got away with flagrant fouls. no suspensions like today. that said they weren't better defenders. the systems weren't as complex as it is now , they weren't allowed to do some of the things they do now and the defenders weren't better. kobe has been on the lakers for 5 titles. he was sidekick for the 1st , an equal to shaq for one and the man for the other the first 3 with shaq. either way no kobe , no 3 titles during the shaq-kobe era. jordan is way smarter as far as shot selection. that's why he shoots better. he's had bad games before too. he missed over 20 shots against the jazz in a finals game. of course you don't remember it because it was over a decade ago. after kobe retires people will forget all his bad games too. i think the defenders today are overall better defenders only b/c the rules favor the offense.i think back then it was just a diff way of defending b/c like yousaid they didnt have to worry about suspensions.i dont know how well bill laimbeer and rick mahorn would do w/these rules.

Kobe is good!..but he is no jordan, Kobe went seven games with these celtics not to take anything away from them but jordan would have swept these celtics. And yep!..he did catch a major bail out, when have you ever seen any one have to bail jordan out. 10-15 times a game. they wore striped uniforms.

I've been a lakers fan since birth and a Kobe fan since his game in purple and yellow. I'm also a firm believer he's the best player of this generation and easily both a top 3 all time laker and a top 5 all time NBA player. But.... After tonights performance its now become obviously clear Jordan is considerably better than Kobe and Magic is arguably bettere. Yes he won finals MVP but gasol and aretest are the reason they won they title. Kobe averaged just under 27 for the series but shot horribly and never had a breakout game where he put the team on his back and lead them to victory. He had one great quarter in 3 games in Boston and shot 6-20 in the biggest game of his life. He looked weak the entire game and took some shots that had me questioning if he was trying to meet a spread. He was bailed out by his team mates big time and thees nothing wrong with that but. If your gonna be called the. GOAT then you cannot turn in a performance like that in the biggest game in the last 20 years of the NBA and of your and your coaches career. no way Jordan performs like that in such a moment. Now I'm not knocking him, I still have him as the next player in the league, but at this point I'm convinced he or anyone else playing at this point will sircum jordans in terms of greatness. Kobe is good!..but he is no jordan, Kobe went seven games with these celtics not to take anything away from them but jordan would have swept these celtics. And yep!..he did catch a major bail out, when have you ever seen any one have to bail jordan out.

i agree that the players today are much more athletic.but the rules today are ridiculous.jordans first 3 titles played a much more physical game.defenders got away w/more.I disagree w/you saying that Kobe has given your team 5 titles.i think the first two/three was given by Shaq. Kobe is an amazing player but going for 6-24 in a game 7 nba finals?i don't recall mj ever shooting that bad in an nba final.ouch.im impressed with the 15 rebounds but everyone was rebounding against the celtics last night. defenders back then got away with flagrant fouls. no suspensions like today. that said they weren't better defenders. the systems weren't as complex as it is now , they weren't allowed to do some of the things they do now and the defenders weren't better. kobe has been on the lakers for 5 titles. he was sidekick for the 1st , an equal to shaq for one and the man for the other the first 3 with shaq. either way no kobe , no 3 titles during the shaq-kobe era. jordan is way smarter as far as shot selection. that's why he shoots better. he's had bad games before too. he missed over 20 shots against the jazz in a finals game. of course you don't remember it because it was over a decade ago. after kobe retires people will forget all his bad games too.

jordan also didn't face the defenses or defenders kobe faced. how many athletic 6'6-6'8 defenders were in the league at the time? jordan ever face different types of zones? jordan ever get doubled without the ball? just playing devil's advocate. i don't really give a damn if jordan is 1000 times better than kobe. all i know is kobe has given MY team 5 titles. only 1 less than jordan has and he's not done. i don't give a shit if jordan is 10000000 times better. if kobe gives los angeles more titles than jordan gave chicago , i'll take that. i agree that the players today are much more athletic.but the rules today are ridiculous.jordans first 3 titles played a much more physical game.defenders got away w/more.I disagree w/you saying that Kobe has given your team 5 titles.i think the first two/three was given by Shaq. Kobe is an amazing player but going for 6-24 in a game 7 nba finals?i don't recall mj ever shooting that bad in an nba final.ouch.im impressed with the 15 rebounds but everyone was rebounding against the celtics last night.

dude your stupid? Did Kobe every average about 54% the whole season? MJ was more efficient and had the leadership jordan also didn't face the defenses or defenders kobe faced. how many athletic 6'6-6'8 defenders were in the league at the time? jordan ever face different types of zones? jordan ever get doubled without the ball? just playing devil's advocate. i don't really give a damn if jordan is 1000 times better than kobe. all i know is kobe has given MY team 5 titles. only 1 less than jordan has and he's not done. i don't give a shit if jordan is 10000000 times better. if kobe gives los angeles more titles than jordan gave chicago , i'll take that.

http://i48.tinypic.com/315zgcn.jpg i ain't saying kobe is better than jordan. resumewise and numbers wise jordan was superior. i just don't like when people say jordan wouldn't have been this , jordan didn't need this , jordan wouldn't have done that , jordan did it by himself....... i seem to remember jordan retiring and the same damn team WITHOUT jordan winning 50+ games and almost getting to the finals. i seem to remember jordan's teammates stepping up and helping jordan in playoff games when jordan had a bad night. i don't know. maybe my memory is wrong. or maybe......i don't base my knowledge of jordan off of nike commercials.

Kobe is better than jordan.......did jordan ever score 81???????? dude your stupid? Did Kobe every average about 54% the whole season? MJ was more efficient and had the leadership

I've been a lakers fan since birth and a Kobe fan since his game in purple and yellow. I'm also a firm believer he's the best player of this generation and easily both a top 3 all time laker and a top 5 all time NBA player. But.... After tonights performance its now become obviously clear Jordan is considerably better than Kobe and Magic is arguably bettere. Yes he won finals MVP but gasol and aretest are the reason they won they title. Kobe averaged just under 27 for the series but shot horribly and never had a breakout game where he put the team on his back and lead them to victory. He had one great quarter in 3 games in Boston and shot 6-20 in the biggest game of his life. He looked weak the entire game and took some shots that had me questioning if he was trying to meet a spread. He was bailed out by his team mates big time and thees nothing wrong with that but. If your gonna be called the. GOAT then you cannot turn in a performance like that in the biggest game in the last 20 years of the NBA and of your and your coaches career. no way Jordan performs like that in such a moment. Now I'm not knocking him, I still have him as the next player in the league, but at this point I'm convinced he or anyone else playing at this point will sircum jordans in terms of greatness.

jordan never got bailed out by his teammates? you sure about that? lmao the selective memory about jordan is so laughable. the guy is great. no need to exagerrate. http://i48.tinypic.com/315zgcn.jpg

Very much true. Jordans did play with 2 greats in pippen and rodman. But he almost never need them to carry him as kobe needed his entire team and bench for this entire series. This lakers team has rarely faced adversity and when they did they struggled. On paper they may seem better than the 70/80s lakers but magics lakers kick the shit out of kobes. of course the 80's teams were better. with the league rules teams were able to keep their team together longer. the league also had far fewer teams meaning the talent wasn't so spread out. that goes for every team. even this celtics team ain't shit compared to the talent of the 80's celtics except maybe for defense.

gotta agree. jordan did it by himself and some roleplayers. kobe needed artest and gasol to bail him out big time. jordan never got bailed out by his teammates? you sure about that? lmao the selective memory about jordan is so laughable. the guy is great. no need to exagerrate.

just wait till mak and tua gets in here.. consider yourself warned TS. :rofl: :rofl: i fell for the thread title also...good trick.

lol........ :dance: