Is Shane Mosley an ATG?

Hell no. Not even close............ you buggin big time my dude....not even close?!?!?...wow!!

I agree that I have said the same thing over and over again...lol. No lie but I truly believe that will happen, and while I don't agree that it's right, baseball is full of garbage like that. I swear I watched a special not to long ago that brought up A-rod's legacy and the amount of nuthugging and minimizing of his PED use led me to make a statement like that. I mean this was a show full of baseball historians, that included former legendary players, as well as boxing's own Bert Sugar. Honestly I have stated that if Manny or any other athlete is juicing then they deserve face the consequences 100%. I agree with you on that, but at the same time I'm just making my remarks based on how the American media treats individuals they favor vs guys that aren't liked. America is a society that will spin blatant wrong doing if it fits a certain agenda. I just think Shane is considered a "Good Guy" and people will brush his actions under the rug. I might be totally wrong, and honestly I hope I am, but I do know this; if it was Floyd that got busted he would have got ran out the sport completely.....I'm willing to bet everything I love on it. Unfortunately, Shane is forever tainted. That's just the way it goes.

Shane's PED use has definitely hampered him. Look at this thread - it's already been brought up! :lol1: Look O.S.I.R.I.S., I understand why you're saying this. You basically said the same thing over and over in the past and that people wouldn't care if Manny was juicing, etc. Sorry, guys like Mosley and other stars who may be caught going forward are going to have to deal with the consequences. I agree that I have said the same thing over and over again...lol. No lie but I truly believe that will happen, and while I don't agree that it's right, baseball is full of garbage like that. I swear I watched a special not to long ago that brought up A-rod's legacy and the amount of nuthugging and minimizing of his PED use led me to make a statement like that. I mean this was a show full of baseball historians, that included former legendary players, as well as boxing's own Bert Sugar. Honestly I have stated that if Manny or any other athlete is juicing then they deserve face the consequences 100%. I agree with you on that, but at the same time I'm just making my remarks based on how the American media treats individuals they favor vs guys that aren't liked. America is a society that will spin blatant wrong doing if it fits a certain agenda. I just think Shane is considered a "Good Guy" and people will brush his actions under the rug. I might be totally wrong, and honestly I hope I am, but I do know this; if it was Floyd that got busted he would have got ran out the sport completely.....I'm willing to bet everything I love on it.

People often say Shane suddenly lost something by going to 147, but the only thing I thought he really lost was his size advantage as he was a huge LW, and Mosley said he was having problems @ 135 anyway and it was affecting him physically. He looked as good, if not better, as ever in his WW fights (besides Rivera) before the Forrest fight. Wise, De La Hoya 1, Diaz, Taylor, Stone, he looked awesome in those fights. Oscar was by leaps and bounds the best fighter he had ever faced in his career and Mosley looked sensational in that fight. He just faced a real tough matchup in Forrest, there were no guys like him down at lightweight. Agreed 100%. I thought the move up definitely helped him. I wasn't blown away by the Rivera performance either and the Wise bout was kinda strange but yeah, that first Oscar bout was ridiculous. Put all his LW bouts to shame.

ATG is very subjective. What is it? Top 20? Top 50? Top 100? Different criteria for different people. I don't have a problem with either opinion, but he was a terrific fighter. I agree it is very subjective. My criteria is: #1 that have to be considered one of the best in their own era, are the fighters in their generation. #2 they have to be considered one of the best in comparison to fighters in the history of their division or divisions they have fought in. #3 I feel they have to be amongst the top 50-75 greatest fighters of all-time. As time passes and more and more great fighters come and go, then I feel it should be extended to a top 100. But yeah it is very subjective and others may have different criteria for what an ATG truly is.

I don't know, maybe your right. IMO only time will tell how these guys careers are viewed and how fans perceive them. I feel Mosley will get a pass because honestly, until Floyd bought up OST, most fans seem to not care that Mosley was caught up in the BALCO scandal. There wasn't an outcry to get him suspended, any discrediting of his past wins, hell there wasn't even anyone drilling him to find out when he started cheating and what fights he shouldn't get credit for. Again, this is just how I see things from how everything went down (Shane's PED use). Shane's PED use has definitely hampered him. Look at this thread - it's already been brought up! :lol1: Look O.S.I.R.I.S., I understand why you're saying this. You basically said the same thing over and over in the past and that people wouldn't care if Manny was juicing, etc. Sorry, guys like Mosley and other stars who may be caught going forward are going to have to deal with the consequences.

Mosley won't get a pass. Neither will anyone else suspected in this era. This era - the one of PEDs - has completely changed fan perspective. It used to be, in previous generations, in other sports that fans didn't care about it either. Not anymore. I don't know, maybe your right. IMO only time will tell how these guys careers are viewed and how fans perceive them. I feel Mosley will get a pass because honestly, until Floyd bought up OST, most fans seem to not care that Mosley was caught up in the BALCO scandal. There wasn't an outcry to get him suspended, any discrediting of his past wins, hell there wasn't even anyone drilling him to find out when he started cheating and what fights he shouldn't get credit for. Again, this is just how I see things from how everything went down (Shane's PED use).

ATG is very subjective. What is it? Top 20? Top 50? Top 100? Different criteria for different people. I don't have a problem with either opinion, but he was a terrific fighter.

I don't even understand where people get that from. The best guy Shane fought at 135 was Holliday and he looked dung in that bout. People often say Shane suddenly lost something by going to 147, but the only thing I thought he really lost was his size advantage as he was a huge LW, and Mosley said he was having problems @ 135 anyway and it was affecting him physically. He looked as good, if not better, as ever in his WW fights (besides Rivera) before the Forrest fight. Wise, De La Hoya 1, Diaz, Taylor, Stone, he looked awesome in those fights. Oscar was by leaps and bounds the best fighter he had ever faced in his career and Mosley looked sensational in that fight. He just faced a real tough matchup in Forrest, there were no guys like him down at lightweight.

Who cares, I don't get this obsession that you need to be ATG to be remembered. He's a good fighter, couldn't beat a boxer but never backed down from a fight and fought the best what else do you want from a fighter? I have a lot more respect for a guy like that, than a guy who calls himself the best by fighting lesser opposition.

No he's not. He had an awesome record against limited opposition. He may score high on potential and mythical matchups, but he lacks the achievements/resume to be ranked highly in a historically rich division like lightweight. I don't even understand where people get that from. The best guy Shane fought at 135 was Holliday and he looked dung in that bout.

He's definitely one of the greatest lightweights of all time. He was untouchable until he moved up in weight. No he's not. He had an awesome record against limited opposition. He may score high on potential and mythical matchups (it helps when you enter the ring @ 150), but he lacks the achievements/resume to be ranked highly in a historically rich division like lightweight.

What do you think? yeah.....here is why.. 3 Weight World Champion... Beated the Following - Oscar De La Hoya X2 - Fernando Vargas - Ricardo Mayorga - Antonio Margarito - Luis Collazo

We don't know what fights he used PED's and the one he confessed to using them in (second Oscar fight) most thought he lost anyway. He is not an ATG but if you mean affecting his legacy, then the answer is no it doesn't affect it one bit. Most will get mad at this statement but this is the reality. Jack Dempsey was rumored to have loaded gloves for a few of his signature wins, There were rumors that the Mobb rigged fights in Favor of Marciano, SRL was accused of Roids, and Panama Lewis trained a few ATG's that many believed he cheated due to his special drinks in between rounds and the list goes on and on. Boxing is a dirty sport and you the list of ATG with controversial wins is very long. At the end of the day, unless it's proven, boxing gives those fighters a pass. Mosley won't get a pass. Neither will anyone else suspected in this era. This era - the one of PEDs - has completely changed fan perspective. It used to be, in previous generations, in other sports that fans didn't care about it either. Not anymore.

Does the fact that he's an admitted PED user affect a possible ATG status? Should he get credit for the wins where he used the peds? I don't think so... We don't know what fights he used PED's and the one he confessed to using them in (second Oscar fight) most thought he lost anyway. He is not an ATG but if you mean affecting his legacy, then the answer is no it doesn't affect it one bit. Most will get mad at this statement but this is the reality. Jack Dempsey was rumored to have loaded gloves for a few of his signature wins. There were rumors that the mobb rigged fights in favor of Marciano, SRL was accused of roids, and Panama Lewis trained a few ATG's that many believed he helped cheat due to his special drinks in between rounds, and the list goes on and on. Boxing is a dirty sport and the list of ATGs with controversial wins is very long. At the end of the day, unless it's proven, boxing gives those fighters a pass. Again I'm not saying I agree with this, but this is how the sport of boxing, over the years of it's existence, has handled fighters with controversy surrounding them.

The problem now n days is certain titles are threw around to loosely, and ATG is one of them. IMO there are only a handfull of fighters from this era of current fighters that are ATGs. The list includes Manny Pacquaio Erik Morales Floyd Mayweather Jr. Roy Jones Jr. Marco Antonio Barrera Bernard Hopkins FWIW I have a hard time including any other current fighters, including guys like Shane, Winky and others. Completely agree.

The problem now n days is certain titles are threw around to loosely, and ATG is one of them. IMO there are only a handfull of fighters from this era of current fighters that are ATGs. The list includes Manny Pacquaio Erik Morales Floyd Mayweather Jr. Roy Jones Jr. Marco Antonio Barrera Bernard Hopkins FWIW I have a hard time including any other current fighters, including guys like Shane, Winky and others.

Does the fact that he's an admitted PED user affect a possible ATG status? Should he get credit for the wins where he used the peds? I don't think so...

Excellent post, IF DLH gets credit for fighting everyone, then Mosley should get credit for fighting everyone including guys he shouldn't have, and even those loses he tried to avenge. if it wasn't for that he only be by his 4th lose. & I feel that i'm the only person who doesn't believe Mosley is completely pas it, fact is most fighters look horrible against Mayweather. I'd like to see him bounce back and at least go out on a big win. He should have walked into the sunset after the Marg win, that would have been one hell of an end to a career. Whatever Mosley has left in the tank was beaten out of him on May 1st. But I think the mental effects of that fight were even more damaging.

If what people say applies to everyone "It's not how many wins you have it's who you fought" Mosley fought them all. DLH, Mayweather, Forrest, Wright, Margarito, Cotto, Vargas, Mayorga. And if he's serious about fighting up to age 45 which I don't believe him and I don't think any one does, then i'm sure he will put at least a couple of more names in the bank. He should be ATG based on the names of his resume win or loss. Emanuel Burton should also be ATG since he also fought them all, win or lose :lol1: But i'm not kidding about Mosley, I think he's top 100 ATG. Excellent post, IF DLH gets credit for fighting everyone, then Mosley should get credit for fighting everyone including guys he shouldn't have, and even those loses he tried to avenge. if it wasn't for that he only be by his 4th lose. & I feel that i'm the only person who doesn't believe Mosley is completely pas it, fact is most fighters look horrible against Mayweather. I'd like to see him bounce back and at least go out on a big win. He should have walked into the sunset after the Marg win, that would have been one hell of an end to a career.