Observations Khan and Ortiz

kahn vs ortiz would be a good fight but ive got khan winning imo That would be an amazing fight. Although I have it the other way. I think the methodical Ortiz that we wittnessed agains Campbell can pull it off. He moved very well, he picked his shots very well and has the power to put khan down. IMO Ortiz late KO.

Khan beat Paulie something terrible. And he did it technically, took his time, and didn't rush it, despite facing a man with no power. Khan showed some maturity in that fight. Paulie takes a good shot, but Khan had him stunned in there. His power was surprising. Ortiz boxed a more cautious fight than he seemed to need to, but it worked so he gets credit. Nate was in close enough to let go, so I don't now if he was too old to do it or just gunshy. He just looked lethargic. But Ortiz got some confidence back, so we'll see what he can do against a guy who comes at him a little harder next time.

There is no denying that this isn't the same Ortiz prior to the Maidana fight. He's on his backfoot now and more conservative with his offense. The characteristics that made him an appealing prospect are no longer there. What? Even before the Maidana loss, Ortiz was camping his left hand a lot more while looking more sharp and patient. It's once he decided to trade and get sloppy that he ended up getting beat down and stopped with over hand counters from a guy who was punching with his eyes closed lol. That reckless version of Ortiz is a ****ing mess in the ring. He trips over himself and he's easily countered in the middle of one of his over-aggressive combo attempts. I think that was his style coming out of the Amats too. Ortiz is at his best when he's slowed down, and picks spots for his agression. And in the long run it'll teach him to find his openings as oppose to just trying to out muscle the other guy with dumb, raw aggression. I think the fact that Ortiz chose to move around the ring more, as opposed to following up by digging to the body, or tryin to catch Nate with a uppercut while rushing in, and just completely forgetting to look for all, and any weak spots in Nate's game, while trying to bang through Nate's guard is just typical Ortiz. It's a sign he's still new to that more realistic and economic style of fighting. Look at the Roberto Arrieta fight, Ortiz appeared to toy with him for what? 6 or 7 rounds? After knocking him down with those insane shots to the chin throughout the fight? It was like he threw 5 or 7 punches a round.... He could have ended that fight at any time. Instead he just decided to torture him by throwing one hard shot every minute or so. It would be dead silent for a solid 50 seconds, than out of no where Ortiz would just twist Arrieta's head around like it was on a swivel, than go back to being "patient." :rofl: And again, I don't even think it's about being "gun shy." Since coming out of the Amat's, Ortiz' camp had to slow him down they said. So I don't even think Ortiz knows how to break guys down with intelligent punch selection just yet. But I think it's evident now, that Ortiz being too patient is better than Ortiz being too aggressive.

There is no denying that this isn't the same Ortiz prior to the Maidana fight. He's on his backfoot now and more conservative with his offense. The characteristics that made him an appealing prospect are no longer there. Well you could be right but I think it could take some time for him to get back into things. I don't know if he has the temperament to be a fighter. I once saw an interview with Fernando Vargas where he said he wasn't a real Mexican because he was raised by Americans in Kansas. He also seems very emotional when talking about certain things in his life. I'm not trying to be inconsiderate about his family life but we all have problems man, shit everyone I grew up with is fuked up in one way or the other. I think that shit should fuel you not hold you back....

I don't know if you can go that far. I think it would have been stupid of him to stand and trade with Campbell simply because he would have given Campbell the best opportunity to win in that scenario. If he would have done that he would have been criticized for fighting "stupid". He did the right thing, I just hate the way he pulls back and drops both his hands almost to his hips. It doesn't make any sense and I think that it's just a bad habit of his. There is no denying that this isn't the same Ortiz prior to the Maidana fight. He's on his backfoot now and more conservative with his offense. The characteristics that made him an appealing prospect are no longer there.

I don't know if you can go that far. I think it would have been stupid of him to stand and trade with Campbell simply because he would have given Campbell the best opportunity to win in that scenario. If he would have done that he would have been criticized for fighting "stupid". He did the right thing, I just hate the way he pulls back and drops both his hands almost to his hips. It doesn't make any sense and I think that it's just a bad habit of his. Well, he did fight cautious. There is nothing wrong with that. He fought a very technical fight. I was just making an exagerrated point that he is cautious (which is a good thing). Don't worry bro, I'm not taking anything away from Ortiz. I just expect more from him. :biggthump

Agree with both you guys (IMDAZED). Victor "I'm very cautious, but I'll try to put on a good show without getting hurt" Ortiz lol I don't know if you can go that far. I think it would have been stupid of him to stand and trade with Campbell simply because he would have given Campbell the best opportunity to win in that scenario. If he would have done that he would have been criticized for fighting "stupid". He did the right thing, I just hate the way he pulls back and drops both his hands almost to his hips. It doesn't make any sense and I think that it's just a bad habit of his.

Ortiz is fighting with caution now. There is something of a lack of confidence in him. The killer instinct doesn't seem to be there anymore. The "viscous" isn't there. Agree with both you guys (IMDAZED). Victor "I'm very cautious, but I'll try to put on a good show without getting hurt" Ortiz lol

What's funny is that Ortiz has a better chin than Khan but Khan seems to have a bigger set of cojones. Something is missing in Ortiz--I can't quite put my finger on it. It's a shame because the kid has all the skill. Ortiz is fighting with caution now. There is something of a lack of confidence in him. The killer instinct doesn't seem to be there anymore. The "viscous" isn't there.

I agree, I want to like Ortiz...but because of the Maidana fight...it's harder. But as I said before...two or three fights to gain confidence, and fight SMART fights he will be great. I agree. I just don't know if he'll ever have that fire; that passion. Doesn't seem like it's in him. And not just because of the Maidana bout, but just his attitude to fighting. It manifests in the ring.

What's funny is that Ortiz has a better chin than Khan but Khan seems to have a bigger set of cojones. Something is missing in Ortiz--I can't quite put my finger on it. It's a shame because the kid has all the skill. I agree, I want to like Ortiz...but because of the Maidana fight...it's harder. But as I said before...two or three fights to gain confidence, and fight SMART fights he will be great.

What's funny is that Ortiz has a better chin than Khan but Khan seems to have a bigger set of cojones. Something is missing in Ortiz--I can't quite put my finger on it. It's a shame because the kid has all the skill.

I watched the Kahn vs Malinaggi fight and I have to say Kahn came in with a great game plan. The jab dominated the fight and really kept a slick boxer like Malinaggi off balance. After the fight you heard Kahn said they have been working on making the jab dominant and that's exactly what I saw. Another thing that I hate is when fighters fight with their hands down. I think it's a no win situation because even if you are fast enough to carry that style out, why would you do it? It takes your punches longer to reach your opponent coming from your hip that they do from your chin. Never understood why fighters do this. Another note, I thought Ortiz looked good and fought a smart fight. I also thought he showed some serious defensive flaws. When he's in the pocket, he looks good, when he pulls out of the pocket he seems to keep his hands down and gets caught with punches going away. I'm sure his corner has worked on this and to me it just seems like a very bad habit. If Kahn can stay fundamentally sound, he can really be a player at 140lbs because of his power, length and speed. ] I thought both fighters fought impressively.Both Kahn and Ortiz looked very technically sound, despite a few flaws, but to your point can be improved upon. Kahn did a good job good strong jab, hands up high, good speed; however I notice he likes to rest his elbow behind the head when the other is ducking. That was annoying. Ortiz had great movement, it was a great plan for an old(er) fighter, he did get a little "big headed" dropping his hands and such. Ortiz needs at least two more fights to gain his confidence, and NOT forget the fundamentals.