Honestly is A.Ward that great or did we just beat a past his prime Kessler?

i love you... you the man batt :luvbed:......

I think Kessler has lost a step. I don't think he is as good as he was against Calzaghe. But, I still think he is an elite SMW. I think he is still pretty good. It was a real good win for Ward. I don't have Ward in my top 10 P4P just yet. But, he can be in it shortly.

Lol at you rating Khan, who got KTFO by an F-level fighter, as A-level. And Bute who in everyones eyes but the referee's got KTFO by a fighter who lost every minute of every round against Kessler. And then there's Ward who you consider A-level while he only has one single win against a B-level fighter. I could go on. You fail. i love you... you the man batt

I think there are still some question marks about Ward but there's no questioning his skills. Not quite sure where to place him right now; I still need to see more.

And here I thought I wrote some crazy shit when I am high. You must be rockin that ak-47 skunk bud brotha. Shit confuses me too. :fing02: Ima go to Christiania looking for that shit Weed. Maybe I can then make sense of dude's posting.

I would love to give more credit to ward for the Kessler win but Calzaghe showed just how to beat Kessler...That being said its still very good win for ward !:fing02:

Kessler was in his prime, I don't see why he wouldn't be. He did not take much much punishment in the Calzaghe fight and he looked very much in his prime by knocking out Danilo Haussler with a jab and destroying Gysmyr Perdomo. The reason that Kessler looked so bad against Ward is simple... Kessler is not that good, he only looks good against bums, he is a b-level fighter. So quit it with the excuses please it's pathetic. That's retarded... Kessler will have bad style matchups with SOME fighters who will cause him problems. That doesn't mean he's done or he isn't good enough, he did win the WBA crown, if you can't respect the WBA belt then you shouldn't be posting here, troll. Pacquiao is considered the p4p #1 by most people and still he has an awful style match up vs boxers. Marquez out boxed Pacquiao in both of their fights and Pacquiao went on to destroy bigger fighters who would come to him. There are very few fighters in the history of boxing who are truly complete.

Probably a bad style matchup...Ward has skills but he aint a puncher...he deff shudda finished off Miranda but went the full 12... I think Dirrell could beat him if Direll doesn't run all night and fights like he did against Abraham...

I wrote the Ward loss off as a bad style matchup for Kessler, but after seeing the Froch fight he is clearly past his prime, IMO. His combinations aren't nearly as fast or sharp as they were a few years ago. Maybe so, but I'm not convinced that he's past prime yet. I again think that the Froch match-up made it look that way. Kessler's gameplan was completely different compared to Andrade for instance. This time Kessler moved forward trying to get Froch on the back-foot while attacking the body. Kessler's combo's might have looked faster earlier in his career, but I reckon that was in fights where he would counter more than attack. So I'm not sure that he's past his best although he did take too much punishment in both the Ward and the Froch fight for my liking.

I wrote the Ward loss off as a bad style matchup for Kessler, but after seeing the Froch fight he is clearly past his prime, IMO. His combinations aren't nearly as fast or sharp as they were a few years ago.

Top 10 p4p: Elite Then after that theres A-level fighters like Ward, Dirrell, Cotto, Bute, Bradley, Alexander, Khan, Berto etc etc etc B-level fighters are guys like Froch, Kessler, Pavlik, Margarito, Spinks, Huck, who are decent but not that good. C-level fighters are guys like Miranda and Prescott. This is how I see it. Lol at you rating Khan, who got KTFO by an F-level fighter, as A-level. And Bute who in everyones eyes but the referee's got KTFO by a fighter who lost every minute of every round against Kessler. And then there's Ward who you consider A-level while he only has one single win against a B-level fighter. I could go on. You fail.

I only consider guys that are in the top 10 p4p as real elite fighters. P4P doesn't even mean anything. It's mythical. Any idiot can make a list. So by your reasoning of elite fighters, even if Kessler is the second best fighter, in a division with around 4-6 (who i consider) elite fighters, but none are top 10 pound for pound in your eyes, it doesn't make him elite? To the thread starter: Kessler may not be the same fighter going in undefeated against Calzaghe, but the Froch fight proves he still belongs with the best of the division. Ward beat a very game Kessler, used very good (albeit dirty) tactics and defeated the former number 1 at SMW. I have no doubts he'd beat Green in their upcoming fight, but his real test comes against Dirrell. I have Dirrell beating Ward at this moment. I don't think you can put anybody at the top of 168 just yet though, Bute's competition is evidently not as strong as the super-six, but apart from Ward, everybody is beating someone else. After the Dirrell fight, it is then i would assess just how good Ward is. On pure talent, Dirrell has the makings to be the man, but his heart just doesn't seem to be there.

Kessler definitely had a lot of problems post calzaghe, promoter disputes that prevented him fighting plus the fact he fought basically nobody for two years following calzaghe so yeah i would agree ward got him exactly at the right time, not saying ward isnt good but i dont buy into the massive hype he is getting, you have to remember ward had a nice helping hand from the ref who basically allowed him to get away with a lot of fouling, but i guess hometown fighters are protected everywhere so thats the way it goes, lets wait and see how ward does in his next few fights but i definitly dont agree with him having all of his fights in oakland?? how the hell did he manage that. Kessler held the belt and yet he had to go to oakland, fair play to kessler i dont think he gets enough credit for that, most (ward included) wouldnt do that

Say the Kessler who lost to Calzaghe has 50 points. The Kessler who fought Ward had 10 points, and was beaten. When someone like him loses, their number of points can be divided by 5. Now, Kessler with 2 points beat a prime Froch, while 10-point Kessler was outclassed by Ward, whom we can give 20-40 points. Do you get the idea? The kid is truly great.

Ward is not a B-level fighter, just because he is not in the top 10 p4p list doesn't make him a B-level fighter. I would say that Ward is an A-level fighter but not elite yet(but he will be). Kessler is a B-level fighter, not because he is not in the top 10 p4p but because he is one dimensional, has a b-level resume and is just plain average in everything he does. Make up your mind. I'm kinda confused: I only consider guys that are in the top 10 p4p as real elite fighters. So how do you define B-level fighters in p4p terms? Let's get it straight.

It's pretty funny, the people who claim Ward is a P4P elite now where the same ones who for years claimed that Kessler was garbage.

I only consider guys that are in the top 10 p4p as real elite fighters. Ok. That means that Ward is B-level as well.

Kessler's resume really aint that impressing, every time he has stepped up he has lost. And thats why I think he is a b-level fighter... I consider guys like Froch, Pavlik, Green, Sylvester etc etc as B-level fighters aswell. Kessler's resume: Froch, Mundine, Sartison, Beyer, Andrade... I mean shure it's decent but it's not that good... So according to you he has beaten all the B-level fighters he has met and yet he is still B-level himself?

Kessler's resume really aint that impressing, every time he has stepped up he has lost. And thats why I think he is a b-level fighter... I consider guys like Froch, Pavlik, Green, Sylvester etc etc as B-level fighters aswell. Kessler's resume: Froch, Mundine, Sartison, Beyer, Andrade... I mean shure it's decent but it's not that good... So how the hell did he get to be the WBA champion?

Im not hating on Ward i was just wondering if he is as good as everyone is saying he is. I dont know anything about his fights before Kessler, so does he have a good record, fighting top level opponents. The win over kessler was impressive , but we know kessler was not the boxer he was pre-calzaghe So honestly, is Ward eilte in the SMW division? or did he just get a good win over a 'past-prime' kessler what evidence is there he is elite in the SMW division? and kessler beating froch doesnt mean kessler is in his prime still, froch is a one dimensional bum I think he's elite. He is what 25 years old, fights like a 30 year old in the best way. He was the olympic champion too. Kessler is not shot by any means, he just won his most important fight yet beating undefeated (should be but hell) Froch. Ward's style isn't very flashy but it's effective. Everyone is a "one dimensional bum" once they lose their 0 in NBS, everyone knows that so that really doesn't say anything.