If Pavlik doesn't get cut in the 9th does he win?

Let me put it this way, and maybe this is what a lot of you guys were thinking. When I was watching the fight, I honestly thought things had turned in Pavlik's favor for good in round 8. He seemed to have Martinez figured out, had evened the fight up on points and won round 8. Martinez slugged it out with him a lot more in that round, and I kept saying Pavlik is either going to win on points or by KO as Martinez gets more desperate. That was my thinking right then. However, as soon as round 9 started and Sergio was letting the leather fly, I said wait a minute, this fight is not over. Martinez lands about 6 unanswered left hands and is just lighting Pavlik up. There is no cut at that point. After more left hands, a cut appears, but it's another minute before Pavlik is covered in blood. Then, I was almost sure Martinez was going to win. My question is why didn't Pavlik return fire when Martinez was lighting him up to start round 9? I think he was tiring, got cut, and then it was over. The cut certainly helped to secure the loss, but I can't say for certain it was the cause. Thus my initial post: I don't know.

In order for pavlik to win the fight, he had to let his hands go more often, not just jab, jab, right. Martinez let his hands go and caused problems for pavlik

I think the cuts played a factor with Pavlik looking as bad as he did at the end. But not having a good cut man is something that is his fault and nobody else's.

You can use any type of semantics you want. But the bottom line is you are trying to make an excuse for Pavlik losing. You try to mask it by claiming "whats done is done" but you obviously felt a need to make this thread. Yes, what you are doing is that transparent and obviously it's not "done" for you. Cuts are a part of boxing. Especially if the opponent is slicing you up with his punches. The fact that you think that Pavlik would have "won by late stoppage" when he never even came close to hurting Martinez clearly shows your fan boy logic. As well as the fact that you can't get over him losing. Pavlik looked like he wanted to quit at times. But he was going to win this fight? Yeah Ok. Is that literate enough for you? First of all, how am I making excuses by asking a hypothetical? I'm a Pavlik fan asking a hypothetical question, and somehow you turn that into me making excuses for why he lost? Second of all, I already said what's done is done. If he doesn't get cut, and it is possible, as much as you might think it's not, that if that second cut doesn't happen then Martinez doesn't open up on Pavlik like he did. Or was it just some big coincidence that not seeing and getting punched in the face happened to occur at the same time? And as far as him quitting, if he looked like he wanted to quit it's probably because he couldn't see and he felt he was losing, which he was. That's how people look when they're gettin phucked up. No one argued otherwise. I'm still not sure what your point is. There is no "fan boy logic". No one's making excuses. Your just trying to call me out on some argument that I never even made. I don't know what that makes you. I guess it's not illiterate. It's just dumb. And your sayin I can't get over him losing.... for no reason. I never said he shoulda won. Come to think of it everything your callin me out on I never said. You're dancing without a partner. Go pick a fight in someone's thread who's actually arguing a point. I just asked a question, you came in throwing accusations around like a spazz.

Don't be a clown, Martinez wasn't hurt at any point. The knockdown in the 8th was because Pavlik stepped on his foot. The punch itself was like a weak jab. blown up welterweight Martinez just made Hopkins best win look shite. How is Martinez a "blown up welterweight?" Do you know how long it's been since he fought there? And 43 year old Hopkins beating Pavlik will never look like "shite".

look at the state of his face would lennox lewis say :D i think martinez had more left in his tank in the last rounds than pavlik, even a crocodile skin wouldnt have helped pavlik that night imo. also pavlik wasnt cut in the first rounds, he still didnt look really well, and he never really figured martinez out. I don't think Sergio was giving rounds away to pavlik during the middle rounds. Not the Way Pavlik can close fights. And considering how Sergio has been screwed around with Judges I think he was trying to win every round he could.

You obviously only semi-literate, or u just flap without thinking. I wrote that the reason he got cut was legit, and that this is purely just asking a WHAT IF. As in if he didn't open up a cut, and just bruised him instead, WHAT IF. It's a comlex concept I know. It's ok, if it's too much for you there's always picture books. You can use any type of semantics you want. But the bottom line is you are trying to make an excuse for Pavlik losing. You try to mask it by claiming "whats done is done" but you obviously felt a need to make this thread. Yes, what you are doing is that transparent and obviously it's not "done" for you. Cuts are a part of boxing. Especially if the opponent is slicing you up with his punches. The fact that you think that Pavlik would have "won by late stoppage" when he never even came close to hurting Martinez clearly shows your fan boy logic. As well as the fact that you can't get over him losing. Pavlik looked like he wanted to quit at times. But he was going to win this fight? Yeah Ok. Is that literate enough for you?

QUOTE=dc6112;8124119]You obviously only semi-literate, or u just flap without thinking. I wrote that the reason he got cut was legit, and that this is purely just asking a WHAT IF. As in if he didn't open up a cut, and just bruised him instead, WHAT IF. It's a comlex concept I know. It's ok, if it's too much for you there's always picture books. You can use any type of semantics you want. But the bottom line is you are trying to make an excuse for Pavlik losing. You try to mask it by claiming "whats done is done" but you obviously felt a need to make this thread. Yes, what you are doing is that transparent and obviously it's not "done" for you. Cuts are a part of boxing. Especially if the opponent is slicing you up with his punches. The fact that you think that Pavlik would have "won by late stoppage" when he never even came close to hurting Martinez clearly shows your fan boy logic. As well as the fact that you can't get over him losing. Pavlik looked like he wanted to quit at times. But he was going to win this fight? Yeah Ok. Is that literate enough for you?

look at the state of his face would lennox lewis say :D i think martinez had more left in his tank in the last rounds than pavlik, even a crocodile skin wouldnt have helped pavlik that night imo. also pavlik wasnt cut in the first rounds, he still didnt look really well, and he never really figured martinez out.

I actually think he does. He was doing well since the 5th round or so and seemed to have the timing down. As said before, that's not to take anything away from Martinez. The cut didn't just come out of nowhere, or from a clash of heads, Martinez cut Pavlik (again) with his punches.

Without the second cut, yes he probably wins that fight. I love the Euros double standards. If Abe doesn't dq punch Dirrell he would of kayoed him but if Kelly doesn't cut he still loses? Great logic. Don't be a clown, Martinez wasn't hurt at any point. The knockdown in the 8th was because Pavlik stepped on his foot. The punch itself was like a weak jab. blown up welterweight Martinez just made Hopkins best win look shite.

I disagree. He never got cut like that in any previous fight. These punches landed in perfect spots. Even Hopkins didn't cut him like that, he just bruised him, and he hit just as hard and about as often, if not more. Speed and power are apparent all fight,every fight. A cut is something that may or may not happen at any given time. I know I was saying the same thing in another thread. I have never seen Pavlik Cut before either. But maybe his skin is not as supple anymore. I have seen him take a lot more punches then what Sergio was hitting him with up to the 9th round and he was cut up bad. I have seen 6 fights or so with a lot more trading then this fight with no cuts on Pavlik. I hope Pavliks skin is not like that now but it may. Lots of guys could have won more fights if they did not get cuts easy. Maybe they were just the perfect shots but to never being cut to having two would be a fluke.

No. Martinez would still have outworked him in the later rounds. Regardless of the cuts.

I think this is just another way to find an excuse fork Kelly pavlik. He got cut because Mainez put his hands on him. Pavlik lost to the better fighter and the cuts are just a part. Of it. You obviously only semi-literate, or u just flap without thinking. I wrote that the reason he got cut was legit, and that this is purely just asking a WHAT IF. As in if he didn't open up a cut, and just bruised him instead, WHAT IF. It's a comlex concept I know. It's ok, if it's too much for you there's always picture books.

Sergio, really turned it up in the 9th. He seemed like he had energy going into the championship rounds and according to him that was his plan. He would have won regardless IMO

Maybe, but that's like saying if a guy has more power does he win. Or if the guy was faster would he win. Skin that does not cut is something you need to be good. I disagree. He never got cut like that in any previous fight. These punches landed in perfect spots. Even Hopkins didn't cut him like that, he just bruised him, and he hit just as hard and about as often, if not more. Speed and power are apparent all fight,every fight. A cut is something that may or may not happen at any given time.

Martinez won this fight fair and square, and I know this is a huge IF. I am just wondering what other people think. Cuts can happen to anyone, at any time. Kelly got caught and his ability to block and counter diminished huge after the cut. The most telling stat all fight is comparing the power punch stats for Martinez before and after the cut. Prior to the cut the most PP's he landed was round 2, when he landed 15. After the cut, in round 9, he landed 34. So, I know Kelly lost and what's done is done. But for the purpose of finding out what your opinion is on what might have been, do you think the outcome woulda been different if that cut doesn't happen? I believe Pavlik wins by UD or late KO. More likely UD. poll coming I think this is just another way to find an excuse for Kelly Pavlik. He got cut because Martinez put his hands on him. Pavlik lost to the better fighter and the cuts are just a part of it.

No, dude gassed out and Martinez caught a 2nd wind.

I think we'd have been looking at a very close decision. It was a great fight.

Martinez beat the living fukin shit out of him which caused more than 1 cut