Rebuttal thread

In regards to this thread...Other than James Toney - Who happens to be one of my all-time faves...The list is mis-leading at best...It implies that Roach is directly aligned with steroid using athletes, therefore Pac must be a steroid using athlete...Which is wrong on so many levels...Those athletes might have steroid abusing backgrounds but I highly doubt that Roach advised them to use of PEDS as his means of getting prepared to fight... Roach was aware of Toney's steroid use but claimed it was used for some medical reason...The sketchy part about that is the type of steroid that was used - STANZABOL (SP). To stay on point...The Roach/Toney/Steroid association in an of itself isn't enough to warrant Pac taking the random OST's but that along with Pac, Ariza and Arums statements regarding whether or not to take the tests make him look very suspect in the very least... ...and unfourtunately for Pac it's a very slippery slope from supect to guilty... I don't think he taking PED's but he is being poorly advised... ...and at this point I say take the tests, pass them, fight and let the chip fall where they may. Peace Mo! Excellent post!! Green k will be coming once I've reloaded.

Assuming and suspecting are fine, but convicting with no proof is absurd. Im curious what you think of the very first post in this thread. Roach is being tried and convicted in a court of public lies in relation to what I responded to. It was said that he trained 10 fighters who have failed tests. I've dismissed 6 of them with facts and nobody is answering about the rest. What are your thoughts on that? In regards to this thread...Other than James Toney - Who happens to be one of my all-time faves...The list is mis-leading at best...It implies that Roach is directly aligned with steroid using athletes, therefore Pac must be a steroid using athlete...Which is wrong on so many levels...Those athletes might have steroid abusing backgrounds but I highly doubt that Roach advised them to use of PEDS as his means of getting prepared to fight... Roach was aware of Toney's steroid use but claimed it was used for some medical reason...The sketchy part about that is the type of steroid that was used - STANZABOL (SP). To stay on point...The Roach/Toney/Steroid association in an of itself isn't enough to warrant Pac taking the random OST's but that along with Pac, Ariza and Arums statements regarding whether or not to take the tests make him look very suspect in the very least... ...and unfourtunately for Pac it's a very slippery slope from supect to guilty... I don't think he taking PED's but he is being poorly advised... ...and at this point I say take the tests, pass them, fight and let the chip fall where they may. Peace Mo!

That is a whole other debate. Now I am asking you respectfully, can you or can you not provide proof of failed drug tests in boxing from everbody on this list except Toney? If you can we can pick it up from there. If you can't you should see the point I have been making all along, and it has nothing to do with Manny. We can scratch number 10 off the list too. He's an MMA fighter with minor affiliations to Roach. Thats about 70% of this list that I've proven either didn't fail a test or have minor associations with Roach thru another sport. All this yet Flomos were clinging to this list last night like Roach was responsible for PED's being the scourge of sports.

how many fighters has roach trained that have tested positive for steroids? help me fill in the list we got 10 so far 1. James toney 2. Michael moorer 3. Holyfield 4. Ortiz 5. Liddell 6. salido 7 Rourke 8. Stallone 9. Rijker 10. Kirill Sidelnikov __________________ Since I was put on ignore in a cowardly fashion in the previous thread I figured I start my own. Same questions. Who from this list actually tested positive to make anybody think that Roach should be made out to look like the bad guy as the post above suggests. We know Stallone and Rourke are actors, scratch them from the list. We know Salido passed av drug test by a private lab (just like Floyd wants) when he failed the NSAC test, which Floyd and his fans call unreliable to begin with. Sorry fellla's, can't have it both ways. Scratch Salida. We know Holy has never tested positive though I do think he probably used PED's myself. That said...no proof, he shouldn't be tied to Freddie to make him look bad. Rijker?...I don't know. Moorer?...if so I never heard about it. Anyone got anything on Moorer? Liddell is MMA and I never heard he failed a test either. Anybody? That leaves Ortiz and Toney. Sorry never heard of the last guy. That is not a good thing, but considering how many people Roach trains....can we really use this against Roach? Yeah but what he wrote cuts right to the heart of the matter. The other stuff is just side dishes. That is a whole other debate. Now I am asking you respectfully, can you or can you not provide proof of failed drug tests in boxing from everbody on this list except Toney? If you can we can pick it up from there. If you can't you should see the point I have been making all along, and it has nothing to do with Manny.

Why shouldn't it be, thats not what this thread was started about. Im still waiting for proof of all these failed drug tests that was claimed yet no one is chirping up. Yeah but what he wrote cuts right to the heart of the matter. The other stuff is just side dishes.

Love how much of your post was just blown over. Why shouldn't it be, thats not what this thread was started about. Im still waiting for proof of all these failed drug tests that was claimed yet no one is chirping up.

What's up Pac fans...I told myself months ago that I'd back off of the May/Pac stuff...but appears that I just can't resist getting re-engaged. Hopefully I can get some intelligent back and forth... My question...Why is it so important to FIRST have evidence BEFORE Pac can even be SUSPECTED of PED use? ...and as a followup - Hasn't there been adequate evidence to imply that he might POSSIBLY be on some type of PED - Based on his, Roach, Ariza and Arum's responses to taking or not taking the OST's? I can understand the outrage when he is outright accused of being GUILTY - BTW...I agree that he is innocent UNTIL proven guilty - but the level of outrage because he was simply asked to take tests, is very hard to understand. I don't think any boxer is above being asked to take the tests and when they've changed their position as many times as Pac and his his team has, it's hard to give them the benefit of the doubt. Peace MO! Love how much of your post was just blown over.

What's up Pac fans...I told myself months ago that I'd back off of the May/Pac stuff...but appears that I just can't resist getting re-engaged. Hopefully I can get some intelligent back and forth... My question...Why is it so important to FIRST have evidence BEFORE Pac can even be SUSPECTED of PED use? ...and as a followup - Hasn't there been adequate evidence to imply that he might POSSIBLY be on some type of PED - Based on his, Roach, Ariza and Arum's responses to taking or not taking the OST's? I can understand the outrage when he is outright accused of being GUILTY - BTW...I agree that he is innocent UNTIL proven guilty - but the level of outrage because he was simply asked to take tests, is very hard to understand. I don't think any boxer is above being asked to take the tests and when they've changed their position as many times as Pac and his his team has, it's hard to give them the benefit of the doubt. Peace MO! Assuming and suspecting are fine, but convicting with no proof is absurd. Im curious what you think of the very first post in this thread. Roach is being tried and convicted in a court of public lies in relation to what I responded to. It was said that he trained 10 fighters who have failed tests. I've dismissed 6 of them with facts and nobody is answering about the rest. What are your thoughts on that?

What's up Pac fans...I told myself months ago that I'd back off of the May/Pac stuff...but appears that I just can't resist getting re-engaged. Hopefully I can get some intelligent back and forth... My question...Why is it so important to FIRST have evidence BEFORE Pac can even be SUSPECTED of PED use? ...and as a followup - Hasn't there been adequate evidence to imply that he might POSSIBLY be on some type of PED - Based on his, Roach, Ariza and Arum's responses to taking or not taking the OST's? I can understand the outrage when he is outright accused of being GUILTY - BTW...I agree that he is innocent UNTIL proven guilty - but the level of outrage because he was simply asked to take tests, is very hard to understand. I don't think any boxer is above being asked to take the tests and when they've changed their position as many times as Pac and his his team has, it's hard to give them the benefit of the doubt. Peace MO!

Pac did agree to some of the testing. you guys need to remember that.. He just didnt want to accept Floyd way of testing.. Like I said many times.. Floyd teams should have never acted like retards idiots and start all these lies and bullshit accusations.. You know that wasn't an adequate response man. Pac should have just took the 14 day cutoff. He most likely isn't getting 50% now.

Both sides made sad mistakes, which is why the fight will most likely not happen, but who knows what will happen in the next few months.

what? you dont like my Horus impersonation? Actually it was pretty funny and damn accurate of whats happening to Pac.

It would of been better had he stood up and took the test and passed. But I'm sure somewhere you know that. Pac did agree to some of the testing. you guys need to remember that.. He just didnt want to accept Floyd way of testing.. Like I said many times.. Floyd teams should have never acted like retards idiots and start all these lies and bullshit accusations..

Early in his political career, the young Lyndon Baines Johnson served as a congressional aide to Rep. Richard Kleberg, the wealthy owner of the King Ranch who was elected to seven consecutive terms in the House of Representatives, at least in part because he often ran unopposed. One year an upstart rival politician we'll call Joe Bob had the temerity to challenge Kleberg in the Democratic primary, resulting in the convocation of the Texas congressman's staff to plot an election strategy. Several ideas were kicked around before Kleberg himself came up with a brainstorm. "Why don't we start a rumor that he sheep?" proposed the politician. This was a bit over the top, even for Lyndon Johnson. The future president leapt to his feet and said, incredulously, "But you know Joe Bob don't sheep!" "Yeah," replied the congressman, "but watch what happens when the son of a bitch has to stand up and deny it!" Look at what happened to Pacquiao. Straight out of the play book. http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=344359 That's ****ing funny. :rofl::rofl::rofl:

LOL Mosley wanted $$$$ its not that he has balls.. Pac has balls to stand up to someone trying to bully him with false accusations... It would of been better had he stood up and took the test and passed. But I'm sure somewhere you know that.

Early in his political career, the young Lyndon Baines Johnson served as a congressional aide to Rep. Richard Kleberg, the wealthy owner of the King Ranch who was elected to seven consecutive terms in the House of Representatives, at least in part because he often ran unopposed. One year an upstart rival politician we'll call Joe Bob had the temerity to challenge Kleberg in the Democratic primary, resulting in the convocation of the Texas congressman's staff to plot an election strategy. Several ideas were kicked around before Kleberg himself came up with a brainstorm. "Why don't we start a rumor that he sheep?" proposed the politician. This was a bit over the top, even for Lyndon Johnson. The future president leapt to his feet and said, incredulously, "But you know Joe Bob don't sheep!" "Yeah," replied the congressman, "but watch what happens when the son of a bitch has to stand up and deny it!" Look at what happened to Pacquiao. Straight out of the play book. http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=344359 Dude, WTF are you doing to me? That shit just made my eyes go blurry and gave me a headache. I BELIEVE YOU!!! :lol1:

you know what can end all this discussion???? if Pacquiao agrees to random blood testing like Mosley did........Mosley has the balls to say, "i'll do whatever the fukk it takes to get you're arse in the ring so i can beat you down". Pacquiao refused, opted to file a law suit and than claims mayweather is making excuses not to fight him...wtf??? than he claims he wants to beat Mayweather 'in the worst way'........well if you were that damn pissed at Mayweather why didn't you do what Shane did in 1 second.......just say yes......Mayweather said yes to ur bullshit $10 mill. per pound LOL Mosley wanted $$$$ its not that he has balls.. Pac has balls to stand up to someone trying to bully him with false accusations...

I'm not going to insist that Pac must be on P.E.D. I couldn't do that without evidence, and I don’t think what Pac has done couldn’t be done without P.E.D. But any elite athlete must be under a little suspicion, because they all would have the motive and the means. For all we know, Floyd used during his retirement. Now that's speculation, but we know for a fact that Floyd's willing to submit himself to OST with a 14 day cutoff. Pac wasn't. If Pac is on P.E.D., most would point solely to Ariza, who has already said that he takes full responsibility for whatever has entered Pac's body. If Pac were on P.E.D., the most Roach would be guilty for would be not enough due diligence, or maybe a slight enabling of the situation.

well thats fukking stupid....why would Roach supply his boxers with steroids??? sure Toney and a few others took that shit, Roach ain't got nothing to do with it Thats what Im saying too. But Many of Floyds fans feel the need to make up this conspiracy because Pac didn't take the test. Out of the list from the first o=post I've already dispelled 5 of the names. The remaining one I just don't know and was asking for proof in the other thread only to be put on ignore when no one could give me an answer.

you must be a republican. Just wanted to use an example. But this whole steroid accusation is straight out of a political hatchet man's handbook. I am politic free my friend. I'd rather argue about how fast grass grows than talk about anything political. You made a good point though.