Paul Williams Is An Idiot

i don't think it matters...honestly...cintron is just a big of a name as pavlik to me...one is champ and the other is not...people also know that cintron and martinez fought... but at the same time it's like going backwards...cintron and martinez got a draw (robbery)...so after willimas fights him...he takes a step back and fights cintron? but it's more of the camps to blame...everyone and their grand child knows that they were supposed to fight...a clear win for pavlik will be in line if williams wins his...and we'll see the showdown...if matrinez wins...he'll rematch either paul or cintron...it's a win/win for all involved if you ask me...unless pavlik has no interest in fighting cintron... agreed, I'm not too impressed with pwill/cintron. I mean cintron lost to sergio twice in one fight and he was getting beat up by feliciano. FELICIANO!!!!

i don't think it matters...honestly...cintron is just a big of a name as pavlik to me...one is champ and the other is not...people also know that cintron and martinez fought... but at the same time it's like going backwards...cintron and martinez got a draw (robbery)...so after willimas fights him...he takes a step back and fights cintron? but it's more of the camps to blame...everyone and their grand child knows that they were supposed to fight...a clear win for pavlik will be in line if williams wins his...and we'll see the showdown...if matrinez wins...he'll rematch either paul or cintron...it's a win/win for all involved if you ask me...unless pavlik has no interest in fighting cintron...

If a welter weight who is not a big puncher was rocking Pwill. He would be koed against Pavlik. It would be an action fight, Williams would be hit more often and harder then Serigo hit him. Williams is smart I think he is better at super welter weight or welter weight.

if you get a chance rewatch the matthyse fight and as far as margs goes he almost always takes half the fight to get going. winky was older and coming off a long layoff and didnt have the power to stop williams in his tracks like i think pavlik does. i just think that williams is a fighter first not a boxer and with a guy like pavlik who is about the same size and who will be coming forward for 12 i just dont see how williams avoids a war and from how i saw him taking punches from martinez who doesnt have comparable power to pavlik i dont see him standing up to kelly. Ima check the Mathysse fight out again, I remember it being a somewhat good fight.Margarito couldn't really get anything done because of Williams nonstop offense, even when he was able to, he got shutdown again. Pavlik will no doubt have to come from behind to beat Williams because he won't be able to take him out early or out box Williams. Pavlik's slow hands, feet, and leaky defense will have him losing, until he catches him, if he catches him at all. Paul Williams is getting the same amount of money for fighting Cintron as he would have if he fought Kelly Pavlik? I find that hard to believe. I would've thought that Cintron would be less of a money fight. But I see the point of this thread. I'm favoring Martinez to whoop Pavlik. And if he does, Williams could've costed himself some money in the long run by not accepting the reasonable offer to get the Pavlik fight re-scheduled. Because like you said, Martinez isn't gonna let Goosen and Williams low ball him as compared to before. The Williams-Martinez rematch should be at least close to 50-50 if Martinez ends up beating Pavlik. I don't think it's the exact same, but it should be close to it. He was getting 40-something % against Pavlik which supposedly was close to 1.8 and assuming he's getting the bigger share against Cintron, it should be 1-1.5 or somewhere around that, but I'm not sure. You never know what's gonna happen, IMO he made a mistake. I agree.....you can't say Pavlik ducked him when he wanted 50%....that's absurd. Paul isn't even a bigger draw than Pavlik and he wants parity? Pavlik isn't afraid of Paul. In my view Martinez is much tougher for Kelly style wise than Paul would be. He should have asked for 40%....that's realistic. I think he was getting even more than 40% when they agreed to the fight in December. But after that fight was scrapped, Goossen said that they wouldn't accept to anything lower than 50/50.

Seriously, how do you demand purse parity when you're going to fight for the Middleweight Championship of the World. A win over Pavlik would get him even more leverage for fights in lower divisions, up his popularity, up his P4P status, and get him closer to Hall of Fame credentials. Is he happier facing Kermit Cintron for the same amount of money, but less accolades, less anticipation, and over/under 2K people in attendance? It's probably not his sole decision, but he definitely must have a say. I don't care what reasoning his team gives really. Take the nice cut you were getting, try to negotiate a better position, accept, and get in the ring. You bring HBO interest, but you're not the draw or the champ. Now Sergio Martinez will reap the rewards of everything that you were in the position to get (Sergio is gonna whoop Pavlik, believe it). End of rant/ paul's not an idiot, he's being protected by Goosen. goosen can't risk a fight against the hardest puncher at 160 lbs without getting significant paper.

Williams has a tough fight against Cintron. Cintron has some killer KO power. This will bea great scrap. War Cintron!

if williams can make welterweight, then he should stay at welterweight imo. there's better fights there for him...

Seriously, how do you demand purse parity when you're going to fight for the Middleweight Championship of the World. A win over Pavlik would get him even more leverage for fights in lower divisions, up his popularity, up his P4P status, and get him closer to Hall of Fame credentials. Is he happier facing Kermit Cintron for the same amount of money, but less accolades, less anticipation, and over/under 2K people in attendance? It's probably not his sole decision, but he definitely must have a say. I don't care what reasoning his team gives really. Take the nice cut you were getting, try to negotiate a better position, accept, and get in the ring. You bring HBO interest, but you're not the draw or the champ. Now Sergio Martinez will reap the rewards of everything that you were in the position to get (Sergio is gonna whoop Pavlik, believe it). End of rant/ I agree.....you can't say Pavlik ducked him when he wanted 50%....that's absurd. Paul isn't even a bigger draw than Pavlik and he wants parity? Pavlik isn't afraid of Paul. In my view Martinez is much tougher for Kelly style wise than Paul would be. He should have asked for 40%....that's realistic.

Seriously, how do you demand purse parity when you're going to fight for the Middleweight Championship of the World. A win over Pavlik would get him even more leverage for fights in lower divisions, up his popularity, up his P4P status, and get him closer to Hall of Fame credentials. Is he happier facing Kermit Cintron for the same amount of money, but less accolades, less anticipation, and over/under 2K people in attendance? It's probably not his sole decision, but he definitely must have a say. I don't care what reasoning his team gives really. Take the nice cut you were getting, try to negotiate a better position, accept, and get in the ring. You bring HBO interest, but you're not the draw or the champ. Now Sergio Martinez will reap the rewards of everything that you were in the position to get (Sergio is gonna whoop Pavlik, believe it). End of rant/ Paul Williams is getting the same amount of money for fighting Cintron as he would have if he fought Kelly Pavlik? I find that hard to believe. I would've thought that Cintron would be less of a money fight. But I see the point of this thread. I'm favoring Martinez to whoop Pavlik. And if he does, Williams could've costed himself some money in the long run by not accepting the reasonable offer to get the Pavlik fight re-scheduled. Because like you said, Martinez isn't gonna let Goosen and Williams low ball him as compared to before. The Williams-Martinez rematch should be at least close to 50-50 if Martinez ends up beating Pavlik.

Mitchell, Quintana, and Martinez are smaller southpaws, they all hit him with overhand/straight lefts and right hooks that he can't see from the southpaw stance. I remember Margarito taking more than a half a fight to get going. And the only thing he could hit him with, is with a left uppercut and right hand combo or a body shot. Can't remember to clearly about the Mathysse fight. He doesn't just throw punches as his defense anymore look at the way he handled Winky. Combinations and lateral movement (which is his defense). That said, I can see your point happening, so I'm not completely ruling it out. if you get a chance rewatch the matthyse fight and as far as margs goes he almost always takes half the fight to get going. winky was older and coming off a long layoff and didnt have the power to stop williams in his tracks like i think pavlik does. i just think that williams is a fighter first not a boxer and with a guy like pavlik who is about the same size and who will be coming forward for 12 i just dont see how williams avoids a war and from how i saw him taking punches from martinez who doesnt have comparable power to pavlik i dont see him standing up to kelly.

williams would trade with pavlik and when he does he is finished watch williams against sharmba mitchell margarito quintana martinez w matthyse and you will see how many time those smaller men were able to tag williams at will do you honestly believe that williams will move laterally in and out throughout the course of 12 rounds with pavlik with williams style of fighting? pavlik would be coming forward and williams first instinct will be to exchange and when he does lights out for williams Mitchell, Quintana, and Martinez are smaller southpaws, they all hit him with overhand/straight lefts and right hooks that he can't see from the southpaw stance. I remember Margarito taking more than a half a fight to get going. And the only thing he could hit him with, is with a left uppercut and right hand combo or a body shot. Can't remember to clearly about the Mathysse fight. He doesn't just throw punches as his defense anymore look at the way he handled Winky. Combinations and lateral movement (which is his defense). That said, I can see your point happening, so I'm not completely ruling it out.

Williams would beat both. I think he wants to fight the big $$ fights at WW. After Pavlik pulled out twice vs Paul it makes sense they were reluctant to move forward.

I would like to think that Paul wouldn't trade with Pavlik. But as some point in the fight, if they fight, he would...numerous times.

Have you ever seen Pavlik counter punch? Pavlik would have gotten soundly outboxed. He's slow and has heavy feet. Williams would be able to fight him like he fought Winky, which is unload combinations and move laterally. Do you take style and stance into account or are you just thinking about power and defense? Williams has shown good defense against most of the orthodox fighters he's faced. Exactly my point. williams would trade with pavlik and when he does he is finished watch williams against sharmba mitchell margarito quintana martinez w matthyse and you will see how many time those smaller men were able to tag williams at will do you honestly believe that williams will move laterally in and out throughout the course of 12 rounds with pavlik with williams style of fighting? pavlik would be coming forward and williams first instinct will be to exchange and when he does lights out for williams

first of all pavlik is going to stop martinez. williams made the right choice fighting kermit that is a very winnable fight because kermit folds under pressure but can you imagine williams and his total disregard for defense meeting up with the hardest puncher he has ever faced thats a recipe for a ko loss for williams. Have you ever seen Pavlik counter punch? Pavlik would have gotten soundly outboxed. He's slow and has heavy feet. Williams would be able to fight him like he fought Winky, which is unload combinations and move laterally. Do you take style and stance into account or are you just thinking about power and defense? Williams has shown good defense against most of the orthodox fighters he's faced. a win over cintron does nothing for pwill. Exactly my point.

A Martinez rematch would be anticipated, but more than a Pavlik fight? And if Martinez wins, do you think Sergio's team would just accept whatever terms Williams wants like he probably did in the first fight? What win do you think would hold more weight for P4P and HOF status: A win over current Pavlik or a second "win" over Sergio? Considering Sergio would have just beaten Pavlik (considering your scenario) I would think that win at the MW limit would do wonders for P-dub.

You ever hear the guy speak? This should come as no surprise.

A Martinez rematch would be anticipated, but more than a Pavlik fight? And if Martinez wins, do you think Sergio's team would just accept whatever terms Williams wants like he probably did in the first fight? What win do you think would hold more weight for P4P and HOF status: A win over current Pavlik or a second "win" over Sergio?

dunno bout u guys but i dont mind him figtin cintron...

a win over cintron does nothing for pwill. pwill has nothing to gain and everything to lose vs cintron, while sergio gets a shot at the middleweight titles. i guess we know who really won the paul vs sergio fight.