It's about time for boxing trainers to stop teaching the shell d.

That defense is great for fighters who come at you. When someone can move in and out after their combinations it's a different story. AA is different than Winky and Clottey though because he's a puncher. Dirrell fought a brilliant fight and Pacquiao is a machine. Not many other fights can make the shell look that bad. Maybe Calzaghe.

Fighters just need to learn how to use it correctly. Clottey uses it ineffectively because he doesn't know how to mix up his defense and offense. Fighters like Wright used it very effectively. Like against pwill? Used is the key word in your post. I'm wondering if a gameplan has been poven to work v the shell d. The shell d kryptonite you could say.

Fighters just need to learn how to use it correctly. Clottey uses it ineffectively because he doesn't know how to mix up his defense and offense. Fighters like Wright used it very effectively.

Well, still textbook boxing gym stylee.

Winky disagrees with you:boxing: So does Dwight Qawi….

With Paul Williams against Winky as the first instance, right? Correct. El cabron. I think you are definitely right. All I'm saying is that it might be possible that the style has been figured out. Is it possible that a blueprint has been laid out?

Nothing wrong with that defense. Problem is that AA/ Clottey don't have the upper body movement to be more effective with it.

he's not a pro fighter and obviously ams are different than the pros but Vasyl Lomanchenko is pretty fast and uses a high guard shell Lomanchenko didn't go pro yet?

Iv'e never seen an exceptionally fast guy use it tho.......wonder how that'd work out? Mayweather employed it when he fought Judah and from what I saw it worked pretty well

I don't think so Abra/Winky have used it too good effect, AA got solidly outboxed by a very fast guy for 7-8 rounds. Abraham looked visibly the better going into the last few and Dirrel team was worried, it was a great fight going into the last 2. Either a AA ko or Direl UD would have happened It's AA strategy to fight like this anyway and it works for the most part usually he comes on strong from the 4th or 5th and either gets a KO or Dec, this time it didn't happen. I don't see it as a reason to change his style Yes, it works for him... But it's a matter of time people figure out a good way to beat it. How about staying in the pocket vs him? Did you notice how Abraham will need to have some room and be moving forward to punch with power? His body is steel though, body punching didn't work too well to stop the late onslaught... Maybe punching his shoulders? The guy is a beast. Takes lots of punishment and then comes out of his shell hitting like a mule. Damn...

Iv'e never seen an exceptionally fast guy use it tho.......wonder how that'd work out?

I think it's figured out, just maybe. 3 fighters in a row smash through the shell d with basically the same gameplan. It may be an effective style at lower levels of the sport, but at the elite level you are too easy for a disciplined fighter to outbox. With Paul Williams against Winky as the first instance, right?

i dont think any coach actually teaches that as defense and i dont think any coach worth his salt would tell a fighter to change their defence if it worked for them. i just think that some fighters adopt that defense because it suits them and their physical attributes. fighters like winky wright, jamie moore, joshua clottey and AA all have one thing in common; their strength at their respective weight classes. fighters who are quick, sharp and slick (i.e. chad dawson, pbf, guzman) are not likely to adopt this defence because it doesn't suit their physical strengths. the likes of clottey and AA can absorb the opponents punches and just shake them off so they adopt the shelld and the likes of dawson and pbf can't so they have a defense that uses their sharpness and reflexes. i think a fighter with good skills, good speed, good accuracy, volume and slickness ala dawson, williams, pbf etc would just land his combos, pick you off and spin off by the time you tried to land your own. however having said that it is extremely effective against some fighters ala winky wright vs ssm/tito and AA vs taylor.[/QUOTE those guys you mentioned employed a completly different gameplan. Lol at you saying pbf is a volume puncher. Jrek. I understand. You have to be able to take massive amounts of punishment, etc. But again, those fighters you mentioned employed different styles in their fights. I think the would try something else now. Finally, I realize that trainers at the pro level aren't gonna change your d style. I was really just trying to figure out a way to get my point across. A first trainer could get them to alter their defensive style. Also, there Re certain styles that have fazed out of boxing altogether. This could be another one of those styles.

co-sign............ I think pwiill agrees

i dont think any coach actually teaches that as defense and i dont think any coach worth his salt would tell a fighter to change their defence if it worked for them. i just think that some fighters adopt that defense because it suits them and their physical attributes. fighters like winky wright, jamie moore, joshua clottey and AA all have one thing in common; their strength at their respective weight classes. fighters who are quick, sharp and slick (i.e. chad dawson, pbf, guzman) are not likely to adopt this defence because it doesn't suit their physical strengths. the likes of clottey and AA can absorb the opponents punches and just shake them off so they adopt the shelld and the likes of dawson and pbf can't so they have a defense that uses their sharpness and reflexes. i think a fighter with good skills, good speed, good accuracy, volume and slickness ala dawson, williams, pbf etc would just land his combos, pick you off and spin off by the time you tried to land your own. however having said that it is extremely effective against some fighters ala winky wright vs ssm/tito and AA vs taylor.

Yeah, you need a couple things for it to be successful. You need good upper body movement, a solid, explosive jab and good timing. Power doesn't hurt either, especially if you're going to have such a low output.

theres nothing wrong with the defense. its the offense that needs some working. imagine if clottey was throwing 3x more punches in the pac fight. same with AA on dirrell. Easier said than done. Other elite fighters can read when you're gonna punch so I guess you need to feint and have incredible skills and speed to pull it off

That shell makes it so hard to mix up offense and defense effectively.

Winky disagrees with you:boxing: co-sign............

theres nothing wrong with the defense. its the offense that needs some working. imagine if clottey was throwing 3x more punches in the pac fight. same with AA on dirrell. Which fighter with the shell d throws that much punches. Duh.. Shell d means you don't open up much. And to the winky person, I think he would agree. Did you happen to see the pwill fight? Volume, straight lefts or rights to the hole bet the elbows (chest) and jabs. Then mix in the looping body shots and hooks. Volume volume volume. Good point about the cross arm. I think the shell will go away.