Manny Pacquiao or Rocky Marciano? Who's Greater?

In order for Marciano to get a title shot, he had to beat Louis. He actually didn't wanna fight him. Charles was sliding, but he was not shot. Moore was was actually in his best days. He was the reigning light heavyweight champion of the world and continued to defend his belt after the Marciano fight. Take note that he also weighed in more than Marciano. He just came off of two great wins over Charles. One of them being by knockout. Those are actually considered to be his best days. When Marciano retired, Patterson was not rated within the top 10 of the heavyweight rankings. Are you really trying to say that he avoided a smaller fighter that wasn't even regarded as a top 10 fighter, at the time? Walcott and Moore were in their primes. Don't let age fool you. Walcott was in the best part of his career and at the peak of his abilities. Moore was the reigning light heavyweight champion and would continue to reign for many years afterward. He actually wasn't. Here's the top 10 rankings in the heavyweight division from 1955 (which was the year Marciano had his last fight): Rocky Marciano, Champion 1. Archie Moore 2. Bob Baker 3. Tommy (Hurricane) Jackson 4. John Holman 5. Willie Pastrano 6. Nino Valdes 7. Johnny Summerlin 8. Bob Satterfield 9. Young Jack Johnson 10. Ezzard Charles You don't see Patterson, there, do you? Patterson was still green, at the time, and only became ranked as a heavyweight because he took part in a heavyweight title eliminator tournament. The tournament to capture the vacant belt left behind by Marciano. Thanks for setting the record strait! :boxing:

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I say theyre about even.. Rocky at 49-0 43KOs, 87%KO , 7-0 in Title Fights, 5' 10" with only a 68" reach 185lbs fighting at Heavyweight and yea he had no boxing skill what so ever just a swarm of akward, wild punches but still...

Scott, whats your take on Marciano and Valdes and Tommy Jackson? Did he duck them or was the timing just not right. I think a claim could be made for a fight in 55 with Jackson, but I don't think it can be called a duck when he too on Moore instead. Valdes seems to inconsistent during that time frame, but Im really not well versed with his career. Jab, that was before my time so I have to rely on research and hearsay. Jackson didn't evolve into a contender until 1955, which was the last year of Rocky's career. Even then he already had three loses (including a blowout by Valdes). Valdes was really inconsistent. He actually lost four straight during Marciano's reign, making any ducking accusations pretty weak.

People who say that Marciano ducked Patterson forget that Floyd was very young when he fought for the title, and he was also a very carefully protected fighter. He was being brought along to replace Marciano, not fight him. The truth is that unlike Marciano, Patterson really did duck top contenders (Zora Folley, Eddie Machen, Cleveland Williams, etc.). Scott, whats your take on Marciano and Valdes and Tommy Jackson? Did he duck them or was the timing just not right. I think a claim could be made for a fight in 55 with Jackson, but I don't think it can be called a duck when he too on Moore instead. Valdes seems to inconsistent during that time frame, but Im really not well versed with his career.

I don't disagree with you often J, but I disagree with this. When Marciano retired Patterson had yet to really make a dent at heavyweight. Lets not forget when Floyd did win the title he did it over an even older Moore than Rocky fought. People who say that Marciano ducked Patterson forget that Floyd was very young when he fought for the title, and he was also a very carefully protected fighter. He was being brought along to replace Marciano, not fight him. The truth is that unlike Marciano, Patterson really did duck top contenders (Zora Folley, Eddie Machen, Cleveland Williams, etc.).

is this joke!!!!!!! i love pac-man but come on, this shit is crazy. marciano is in the top 10 atg. pac is in the top 50. you guys can't just throw that out there like that without some type of hours of comparison. come on, what's up with boxing scene? have we fallen that much that everyone agrees with something without a proper analysis? i'm a semi non bias fan, and can take criticism but i do believe this is bullshit. and thats comming from a pac-fan.

Charles still managed to go 15 rounds. Still pretty durable. No, it just shows exactly how poor Marciano was, the worst heavy champ in history.

Why are there many Marciano threads now? Lolz.

I don't disagree with you often J, but I disagree with this. When Marciano retired Patterson had yet to really make a dent at heavyweight. Lets not forget when Floyd did win the title he did it over an even older Moore than Rocky fought.bolounchez found a saviour in jab.

No lets not forget. But, lets also not forget Joe Louis was shot way past his prime lets not forget that Ezzard Charles and Archie Moore were MWs who were past their best days. lets not forget that Joe Walcott was past his best days. Lets not forget that Rocky Marciano retired instead of facing a top prime HW in Floyd Patterson. Please lets not forget all that. Now since I answered your question. Can you answer mine and tell me. Who did Rocky Marciano in their prime that was better than the Barrera was in the first Pacquiao fight? I wonder what his comeback would be on this solid post.

No lets not forget. But, lets also not forget Joe Louis was shot way past his prime lets not forget that Ezzard Charles and Archie Moore were MWs who were past their best days. lets not forget that Joe Walcott was past his best days. Lets not forget that Rocky Marciano retired instead of facing a top prime HW in Floyd Patterson. Please lets not forget all that. Now since I answered your question. Can you answer mine and tell me. Who did Rocky Marciano in their prime that was better than the Barrera was in the first Pacquiao fight? I don't disagree with you often J, but I disagree with this. When Marciano retired Patterson had yet to really make a dent at heavyweight. Lets not forget when Floyd did win the title he did it over an even older Moore than Rocky fought.

Charles still managed to go 15 rounds. Still pretty durable. Durable, he is an ATG fighter. But, he was not in his prime when Rocky fought him.

I don't know were this whole Marciano cleaned out the division comes from. But, he didn't clean out shit. He never beat Tommy Jackson Nino Valdez. All these were top 10 HWs during Marciano reign. How exactly did Marciano cleaned out the HW division?

Skills don't dictate greatness. Heart and determination have overcome skills many times in history. Im not saying Rocky was greater than Pac, but he was great. He had great heart and toughness. Thats about it in my eyes.

No lets not forget. But, lets also not forget Joe Louis was shot way past his prime lets not forget that Ezzard Charles and Archie Moore were MWs who were past their best days. lets not forget that Joe Walcott was past his best days. Lets not forget that Rocky Marciano retired instead of facing a top prime HW in Floyd Patterson. Please lets not forget all that. Now since I answered your question. Can you answer mine and tell me. Who did Rocky Marciano in their prime that was better than the Barrera was in the first Pacquiao fight? And, no Marciano did not clean out the HW division. Floyd Patterson was there. Charles still managed to go 15 rounds. Still pretty durable. 100% free webcam site! | Awesome chicks and it is absolutely free! | Watch free live sex cam - easy as 1-2-3

When you watch Marciano fight. Do you see any great skills at all? Any talent? I dont. Skills don't dictate greatness. Heart and determination have overcome skills many times in history. Im not saying Rocky was greater than Pac, but he was great.

So you think he cleaned out any of the divisions he's fought in? Why don't you tell me which one, then? Was it the super featherweight division? After he had a controversial decision win against Marquez and then fled the division? Let's also not forget that he avoided fighting Guzman (a slick boxer). You really think Guzman stands a chance? He would get battered. He isn't active, he's lazy. Pacquiao KO's him with ease. Pacquiao never intended to stay at 135 anyway. If you remember after the Diaz fight he was already talking about fighting Hatton at 140. And really, how do you come to the conclusion that he "fled" from a 130lb'er? He just dominated the shit out of two of the best Welterweights. Yeah, I'm sure he's really scared of Marquez! :nonono: Bring the dude to 140+, we'll see how well he does then. Marquez gets KTFO! 100% free webcam site! | Awesome chicks and it is absolutely free! | Watch free live sex cam - easy as 1-2-3

Just because he never lost doesnt make him automatically elite. Im not fond of his talents or his resume. He only fought old fighters. I used to think exactly the same thing. Some champions just don't have the luxury of great opponents. Ask the Klitschko's. When Ali was champion in the 1960's, his division was total shit. Why else would his first post Liston defense be against Patterson, who had just failed twice to last even one round with Liston? The truth is that Patterson was the best of the rest. If Ali hadn't returned in the talent rich 70's he would have suffered the same stigma. Marciano fought all the top available contenders and beat them. You can disagree all you want, but being the only undisputed heavyweight champion ever to retire unbeaten makes you elite and a legend.

Should we just forget that DLH was a shot fighter and weight-drained? Should we forget that Cotto and Hatton were past their best days? Should we forget about Pacquiao's loss to a past-prime Morales? No lets not forget. But, lets also not forget Joe Louis was shot way past his prime lets not forget that Ezzard Charles and Archie Moore were MWs who were past their best days. lets not forget that Joe Walcott was past his best days. Lets not forget that Rocky Marciano retired instead of facing a top prime HW in Floyd Patterson. Please lets not forget all that. Now since I answered your question. Can you answer mine and tell me. Who did Rocky Marciano in their prime that was better than the Barrera was in the first Pacquiao fight?