What is the REASON that leads you to believe that Pacquiao is using AAS?

really? b/c most people dont voice their opinion. show me a poll and how many are signed up on this forum. i bet not even an 8th of the people signed up on here even voted All I know is everyone I meet even that espn poll that was up that before was mostly in favor of Pacman, The one they broke up in different states. I have met many people that when they find out I am pinoy start talking shit about Floyd.

Not in the court of public opinion. Robert Blake got acquitted, but most people knows he killed his wife...same with OJ...I am a Pac fan, but I don't see how anyone can't be skeptical with the way he has handled this Public opinion is not a bunch of Flomos on this board. Most people believe Manny is clean.

this subject will not go away unless Manny takes the test. To me it is simple, there are a number of reasons to be suspicious and let me clarify suspicious only but there are some very strong circumstantial evidence: #1 Manny's refusal to submit to testing the counter argument can be made that Manny was simply insulted and truly feels like Team Mayweather can go F uck themselves before he lets them put him into that position. #2 his ability to retain his speed, endurance and punching power while moving up in weight especially with so many fights and wars. The counter argument-you have to admit Roach has done a fantastic job of making Manny a better boxer technically and strategically, made his right hand a weapon almost equal to the left. You should also take note that Roach, Manny and Arum have cherry picked their opponents and added demands to give them the best possible outcomes. #3(and this is a big one) Too many changing stories coming out of Pacmans camp as to why he would not submit to testing. Just like a criminal investigation when you start seeing someone change up their story their is reasonable suspicion that something is not on the up and up. Counter argument- none Once again boxing owes it to their fighters to start a real random testing program. To protect them and protect the credibility of the sport.

I've been watching boxing, hell for that matter sports in general, for over 20 years. I'm aware of what the human body can endure. I've seen supreme athletes physical gifts drift away when age and wear and tear are involved. I just want to know how a guy with 50 plus fights, over 30 years old, been fighting professionally for over 15 years, jump thru 7 weight classes, and retain supreme physical gifts? That's not even taken into account the actual training camps. That's a lot of wear and tear on your body. And with his style of "who can take who's shot the best" and the wars he's had....it's just not adding up. I'm sorry. I don't wanna sound like a hater, but something isn't clicking within my own realm of common sense. I wouldn't be so suspicious if he rose thru the ranks and altered his style to accommodate the sudden changes in weight and other changes that come along with being a fighter moving up. But his style is EVEN more effective. That's unheard. i agree. what Pac is doing is great i want to know what the hell the guy eats how is he keeping his body from falling apart. hell even Duran when going up in weight lost something but Pac is losing very little of his speed and power. thinking of guys like Duran ,Chavez and JMM every time they moved up in weight they lost something Pac seem to be geting better every time he goes up in weight. What ever he is doing i want to know what it is so i can add it to my training .

First to get it out of they way, I am a Pacquaio fan. However I am nowhere near to the point of being blind when it comes to discussing him. I'm a firm believer in not speaking on something if you have no idea what you are talking about. One of the things I happen to know well are AAS and other Performance Enhancing drugs. From countless of hours of reading, meeting a talking with a very notorious organic chemist, and knowing several users. Personally I have never used, at least not yet, I do plan to sometime in the future or when I turn 40 for TRT purposes or for general well being but that's beside the point. ____The Point____ I'd like to know why people (Floyd Fans or anyone esle) who believes Manny is using AAS or or some other PED's. What exactly tipped you off or caused you to believe? I'll start off by addressing some of the "reasons" I've been seeing -Physique- This would be the most obvious as "steroids" are the first thing out of most peoples mouth when someone is in great shape. However getting ripped and in shape is not impossible without steroids. Manny Pacquiao is a Millionaire. His money gives him access to the best trainers and nutritionists money can buy. Plus give his and virtually any boxers training regimens, it's not hard to fathom these guys are in shape naturally. -His Head-- This is one of the most asinine things I've heard. My memory may be bad but I don't see an changes in the size of his dome. From what I gather, the consensus is that Pac started using around the time of his fight with David Diaz. While HGH may stimulate bone and organ growth, it's impossible that any increase in the size of someone's head could happen in the short period of 2 years. Pac would have to be taking ridiculously high doses for a very long period of time. Besides that I've seen no signs that would lead me to believe he's using. Things like GH Gut which he doesn't have. -His Chin- Pac lately seems to take a punch a lot better than he used to, however rest assured, steroids cannot improve your ability to take shots to the head. -Conditioning and Pace- I've heard from a few people and even saw a video on youtube that Pac's conditioning was the result of EPO. Now this again all started around the time of the Diaz fight. Lampley and Steward made several references to it during thee course of the fight from what I remember. EPO is a possibility however the risks of using EPO highly outweigh the gain. EPO is extremely dangerous and can be fatal if used improperly. But again like I mentioned with Physique, given his training regimen it's not hard to fathom. -A Side Meth- Now personally I've never heard of this. It may be real, but talking to various experts, they've laughed at the concept. This came from Roger Mayweather as I'm sure everyone here knows. From the little info Roger provided. I can guarantee with 100% conviction that it's bullshit. He stated that they were used 500 years ago, however steroids weren't even synthesized until the early 1900's. -The fact that he refused testing- This could be the most legit reason I've heard. Unfortunately, just because someone refuses testing doesn't mean they are using steroids. He could be using something else. God know what that could be, it may not even be steroids. Or this could all just be an attempt to further hype this Mayweather/Pac superfight. Anyway. Enough of my rambling. I'd like to hear exactly why you think he's on steroids. Because so far it's just been monkey see, monkey do. If Floyd says it, it must be true. Which isn't a very good excuse. Good post. You've said it yourself, Pacquiao condition is the key here. He went up in weight not just keeping but increasing his power, chin, stamina and speed, as he got older. It is not natural. Then he refuses blood testing claiming it will make him weak. He takes a scheduled one 20 days before the Clottey fight. My question to you is: How much did it take us to assume Margarito cheated against Cotto? The Cotto fight jumped to mind, not Clottey, not Cintron, just Cotto. We saw something in that fight that gave us an indication after seeing Margarito ATTEMPTING to cheat vs Mosley. If you are still not suspicious about Pacquiao resort to the science that doesn't ever lie. Statistics. Look at Pacquiao's career before and after his 26th. I'm just saying Pacquiao is a suspect and it's not just me saying that or the Mayweathers or even just other Floyd fans, more and more mainstream media are starting to ask questions. Would you turn down a 25 million dollar blood test if you didn't have anything to hide? Pacquiao is a grown man, his 30. He definitely has something to hide. I can see no other reason why he would sign the fight.

If Pac would had taken the test within reasonable terms this would not ever been a topic

I've never said Pac is on steroids, but I definitely would not be surprised if he was. Quite simply, because; 1) What he's done in his last few fights does not seem natural and 2) He refused to take a test that is more thorough than the commisions' standard.

Until he left 40mill on the table because he didn't want to take Olympic style drug testing. Hes hiding something. If the testing is the deal breaker of 40mill then he is hiding something. Please don't get blame me or anyone for thinking that. Its 40mill over a drug test!!! Hes hiding something period. Can any pac fan honestly say that if pac wanted testing done and either Shane or Floyd pulled out of the fight and left 40mill on the table, can you honestly say you would not accuse Floyd of anything. Would you not question him leaving 40 mill if he was good with everything but the drug testing, and he pulled out specifically for the testing. Please.

You need to pull your head out. Thats like saying you rob me and I fight you for my money and we both get hurt and then say I could of avoided the injury if I let you walk away with all my money. Your a thief and in this situation Pac is the cheat. You don't walk away from someone stealing from you and you don't accept fighting a dude who is cheating for an advantage. Floyd just wanted to guarantee a fair fight. Pac let someone call him a cheat and refused drug testing to raise the eyebrows of people that thought the cheat claims were BS. I never thought he was juicing, I thought he was a phenominal athlete. Until he left 40mill on the table because he didn't want to take Olympic style drug testing. Hes hiding something. If the testing is the deal breaker of 40mill then he is hiding something. Please don't get blame me or anyone for thinking that. Its 40mill over a drug test!!! Hes hiding something period.

People seem to forget, that Floyd walked away from that money just as much as Pac did by bringing up these tests in the first place. As easy as Pac could have accepted them and moved on with the fight, is as easy as Floyd could have dropped the demands and moved on with the fight. You need to pull your head out. Thats like saying you rob me and I fight you for my money and we both get hurt and then say I could of avoided the injury if I let you walk away with all my money. Your a thief and in this situation Pac is the cheat. You don't walk away from someone stealing from you and you don't accept fighting a dude who is cheating for an advantage. Floyd just wanted to guarantee a fair fight. Pac let someone call him a cheat and refused drug testing to raise the eyebrows of people that thought the cheat claims were BS. I never thought he was juicing, I thought he was a phenominal athlete.

1. He'd been whispered about as a user for a couple years 2. His trainer has worked with several users, has also been whispered about, and also carries the stigma of spearheading Wildcat, a haven for PEDs. 3. Several boxers have come forward to voice their suspicions 4. His refusals and outline for his own testing reeks of a fighter who knows when to be tested and how to beat it. 5. The countless excuses from he and his camp. 6. And to a lesser extent, his unprecedented ability to move through many divisions and retain unbelievable power. I could go on but elaborating on one of these, quite frankly, is enough. can this be used in court?!?....because I doubt Floyd's lawyer will present a defense as strong as this one!! :lol1:....you got me thinkin' twice about this now.....I think Floyd's people are just trying to find a way to down play the things Manny has done but I'm kind of like on the fence now!!

There is no reason. I don't believe he's doing anything.

People seem to forget, that Floyd walked away from that money just as much as Pac did by bringing up these tests in the first place. As easy as Pac could have accepted them and moved on with the fight, is as easy as Floyd could have dropped the demands and moved on with the fight. totally agree with you.

Richard Schaefer is smarter than all the Mayweathers combined. He himself denies of ever making the statement of how PAC is on PEDs. So, if Mr Schaefer, a highly intelligent man knows PAC is on this sh*t, then why not come out with it. Or is he just like the rest of y'all, all based on a hunch ?? Unlike Canseco, who actually witnessed alot of this stuff, had conversations with the juicers themselves. Can any of the people you know have that kind of info on PAC the way Canseco had. Where they actually saw PAC take these PEDS, or PAC/Ariza/Roach told them PAC is on PEDS. The funny thing is, you and others are all saying the same thing "He's on something, he's on something". Well, each PED has a specific purpose and none of his accussers can even come up what this might be. No, they had to make up some b.s drug "A-side meth", WTF. I personally know folks that take N-Side meth though, they combine it with Kool-Aid and watermelon, hehe. couple of things anger boy 1. at the bolded. Yes I know of people who have first hand knowledge of what if anything 2. find where I said he is on something. Go ahead I beg you never did. what I have always said is that the points can be debated period and that still holds true I just tire of it now. I have said what I said and thats it I do know more than you though lol and the last part reported for racist remarks

You don't know sh*t !! The most info you have is all hearsay/opinions of others in the business. From the very beginning, Flomos side have publicly accused PAC of PED usage. Ask yourself this, if you want someone to agree with you. Are you gonna go out in public and start makin accusations ?? How the hell does that approach work in the business world ?? Here's the Flomos wanting to enter into a "business partnership" with PAC and their strategy to get them to agree to an idea is to accuse him without any proof?? How the f**k does that work, genius ?? Your theory is, the reason for PAC's refusal, is because he's hiding something ? Well, can you say the same thing about Shane Mosley when Zab requested that he take OST testing too. And GBP from the get-go wanted nothing to do with it, none, zero, zilch, does that mean they were protecting Shane 'cause he was still on the juice ?? Unlike PAC, who was willing to be blood tested but with a cutoff date, and have random urinalysis throughout the entire training camp. The fact that Flomo himself gave in on cutoff dates, makes me question what his point was in all this. Because in theory, 2 weeks would still give a cheater that window of opportunity. you are so angry. why? lol all too funny

If Team Pac accused Floyd of juicing and he refused testing...we'd never hear the end of this. Pac fans would act worst than Floyd fans are acting now. First off.. Why would Pac ask Floyd for Blood testing 2nd Floyd team never asked.. They already said he on PED. and only reason he winning is cause of PEDS. All Fraud jr is doing is playing Head games..

I've been watching boxing, hell for that matter sports in general, for over 20 years. I'm aware of what the human body can endure. I've seen supreme athletes physical gifts drift away when age and wear and tear are involved. I just want to know how a guy with 50 plus fights, over 30 years old, been fighting professionally for over 15 years, jump thru 7 weight classes, and retain supreme physical gifts? That's not even taken into account the actual training camps. That's a lot of wear and tear on your body. And with his style of "who can take who's shot the best" and the wars he's had....it's just not adding up. I'm sorry. I don't wanna sound like a hater, but something isn't clicking within my own realm of common sense. I wouldn't be so suspicious if he rose thru the ranks and altered his style to accommodate the sudden changes in weight and other changes that come along with being a fighter moving up. But his style is EVEN more effective. That's unheard of. Couple that with the various excuses about the whole testing fiasco. Just seems out of place. And the notion that Floyd "knew" that this was the one issue that would be the deal breaker is odd too. To hear Arum and Roach say, "Giving in to these test is like giving away the first two rounds to Floyd" is shocking. Not only is he a ducker, loudmouth, horrible financial planner....but he's also psychic. The "he's trying to get in Manny's head" rhetoric holds no weight if it's not true. I don't know, man....I honestly don't know. But my gut won't let me believe he doesn't have "something" he's hiding. It may not be what we all think it is.....but it's something. Even though am still in denial about Pac taking anything to enhance his performance, I have to say i agree with the highlighted bit above, People talk like Mayweather is a psychic who somehow knew Manny would say NO to drug testing. The whole testing scenario made me look at manny in a different light.

I've been watching boxing, hell for that matter sports in general, for over 20 years. I'm aware of what the human body can endure. I've seen supreme athletes physical gifts drift away when age and wear and tear are involved. I just want to know how a guy with 50 plus fights, over 30 years old, been fighting professionally for over 15 years, jump thru 7 weight classes, and retain supreme physical gifts? That's not even taken into account the actual training camps. That's a lot of wear and tear on your body. And with his style of "who can take who's shot the best" and the wars he's had....it's just not adding up. I'm sorry. I don't wanna sound like a hater, but something isn't clicking within my own realm of common sense. I wouldn't be so suspicious if he rose thru the ranks and altered his style to accommodate the sudden changes in weight and other changes that come along with being a fighter moving up. But his style is EVEN more effective. That's unheard of. Couple that with the various excuses about the whole testing fiasco. Just seems out of place. And the notion that Floyd "knew" that this was the one issue that would be the deal breaker is odd too. To hear Arum and Roach say, "Giving in to these test is like giving away the first two rounds to Floyd" is shocking. Not only is he a ducker, loudmouth, horrible financial planner....but he's also psychic. The "he's trying to get in Manny's head" rhetoric holds no weight if it's not true. I don't know, man....I honestly don't know. But my gut won't let me believe he doesn't have "something" he's hiding. It may not be what we all think it is.....but it's something.

he has more than 50 fights, been in many wars and moved up through many divisions. And is fighting elite big men. You're not crazy. your right , i mistyped

My personal opinion , and this is just me. Pac was always a fast explosive kind of fighter. I dont question his late success over quickness or anything like that. What does intrigue me is his stamina overall. Hes been in battles. CRAZY BATTLES. With the big mexican names. And there were close fights , and not so close , but he took a lot of punishment. Not so much that he should be finished. But he looks so ****ing FRESH!!! Like he could do this for 10 more years. Like he was never in deep waters. What makes me wonder is the fact that he only seems to get stronger with time , considering , he has moved up in weight in his last 3 fights. Its like while JMM was drinking piss , this guy was drinking from the fountain of youth. Seriously , he looks rejuvenated. And he has almost 50 fights. not paulie "magic man" kind of fights. BATTLES. ALL OUT , COMPLETE WARS!! He's on PED's, and it's becoming increasingly obvious. It isn't just him though, a lot of athletes are, especially boxers. Random blood testing needs to be mandatory in all professional sports. I"m tired of the cheating.