Manny Pacquiao best southpaw ever??

Well, after I sat back I remembered the names Hector Camacho, Marvin Hagler, Pernell Whitaker,.........a question of rating.

Given a guy Cottos size and his history with weight I think it was unfair. Not to mention Pac had just fought at 147 before and still had speed, power and stamina and quickness. There was no need to do that to Cotto. 2 Pounds makes a big difference. If they didnt need an advantage they wouldn't had asked for it. Floyd didnt move up and demand catch weights. WW was what Pac 9th weight-class? What catch-weight did Pac asked for in his 5th weight-class? That is somewhat of a stupid comment cuz I seriously doubt Floyd will go 8 weight-classes higher from where he won his first belt and not ask for a catch-weight... Why mentioned Cotto 2 pounds when in his previous fight he weight 146? The fight was not at 144 it was at 145... Which means 1 pound from Cotto last fight... And, you said Pac still had his speed, power, stamina, and quicknesss in his previous fight at WW.... But, all I hear from you guys is that Oscar was old and severely weight-drained. So Pac had all that compared to a fighter who walking dead. It still was not known if he could take a true WW punch. That is one of the reasons you picked against him right? Now you want to say it was an unfair advantage cuz somehow Pac won quite easily then fine...

Like I said a lot of ATG outgrew the Flyweight division, quick still didn't accomplish what Pac did... So pac shouldn't of been able to do that. Especially since those weight-classes have been around for over 100yrs... The catch-weight was done for an unfair advantage? It could be done for a fair advantage... What was the difference between this catch-weight and all the other ones? You don't think Chavez who was the lineal champ at 140 wanted the 145 against Whitaker to get an "unfair advantage"? Or don't you think that Whitaker who easily made 147 making Chavez come up to 145 who never had a good win above 140 was an "unfair advantage"? You don't think Oscar making Pac who only had 1 fight at 135 and by all account was against a bum asking him to got 147 was an "unfair advantage"? I mean Cotto was a top 3 WW, a heavy handed WW... Pac only other WW fight was against a guy who by all accounts was walking dead at 147. There was no proof that Pac could take a true WW punch... So the catch-weight at 145, which is 1 pound less than what Cotto weight in his previous fight, could be seen as to keep it fair from both sides.... Mind you even you knowing that it was at 145 still thought Cotto was going to win. So how can you say it looks like purely for an unfair advantage? What the odds show is that who the majority of people on voting on winning. Odds show people thought Hagler was going to win those fight, people Pac was going to lose those fights... And, that is that point... Given a guy Cottos size and his history with weight I think it was unfair. Not to mention Pac had just fought at 147 before and still had speed, power and stamina and quickness. There was no need to do that to Cotto. 2 Pounds makes a big difference. If they didnt need an advantage they wouldn't had asked for it. Floyd didnt move up and demand catch weights.

p-will, hands down, better defense and u cant deny that. manny is second Is this for real?

What a crock of shit? Manny Pacquaio would not even rank among the top 20 southpaws of all time, let alone the best of all time. I am so sick of seeing all of the stupid ass threads about Pacquaio being the best of all time from the Pacquaio servants; and by servants, I mean the fans on this site as well as the bloggers of this site and everyone else who can't see beyond the last two years of their lives. And, you're talking about Pac being ranked as the best is a crock of shit and you going to make a statement like that? Pac has a better case of being the greatest southpaw ever then you have a case of him not belonging in the top 20 southpaws of all time... Rank 20 higher and tell me why they deserve to be higher than Pac.... By the way, for all the clowns on here who talk about his seven titles in seven divisions, keep in mind that until about 30 years ago, there were only about half the weight classes there are now and only two championship organizations, so you can't compare what Pacquaio is doing now to what someone did 30 years ago before the IBF and WBO and all the junior divisions existed. 30yrs and Pac is the only on who done it... If it is so easy somebody in those 30yrs would of done it by now... Especially if Pac is really not that good and there are so many fighters who are better than him. Then why did nobody else accomplished before he did in those 30yrs? But, you do have a point and that is why I made sure to point out that the featherweight division and flyweight division and the lineal belt have been around for over a 100yrs... So you can compare that to what fighters from a 100yrs ago... Yet Pac has been only man ever to win a lineal belt in those weight-classes...

What a crock of shit? Manny Pacquaio would not even rank among the top 20 southpaws of all time, let alone the best of all time. I am so sick of seeing all of the stupid ass threads about Pacquaio being the best of all time from the Pacquaio servants; and by servants, I mean the fans on this site as well as the bloggers of this site and everyone else who can't see beyond the last two years of their lives. By the way, for all the clowns on here who talk about his seven titles in seven divisions, keep in mind that until about 30 years ago, there were only about half the weight classes there are now and only two championship organizations, so you can't compare what Pacquaio is doing now to what someone did 30 years ago before the IBF and WBO and all the junior divisions existed. You better be sick.

This was a good post my main beefs with it is three things: 1. With the Flyweight/Featherweight thing. Pac outgrew that weight class so fast that he skipped 2 up to to 122. Im saying its not impressive for him to do that considering how quick he outgrew flyweight. He SHOULDVE been able to do that. 2. The 145 Catchweight Thing: What bothers me about this is that it was uncalled forand done puerly for an unfair advantage. Cotto only took this fight because he was forced by Arum. When Cotto was on that golf course with Oscar he was most likely told if you dont re-up with me you dont get a Pac fight. Cotto sold out for the cash just like JMM did. Also Mosley was avilible and was the Number 1 WW and the man at the weight. 3. The odds thing. In order to make money and a profit odds get swung in one way or another. Just because odds makers (mind you guys trying to make money) doesnt have a fighter favored doesnt take away from his wins. Floyd is favored over Shane but if Floyd wins he still gets credit. Oddsmaker have to make a profit. Like I said a lot of ATG outgrew the Flyweight division, quick still didn't accomplish what Pac did... So pac shouldn't of been able to do that. Especially since those weight-classes have been around for over 100yrs... The catch-weight was done for an unfair advantage? It could be done for a fair advantage... What was the difference between this catch-weight and all the other ones? You don't think Chavez who was the lineal champ at 140 wanted the 145 against Whitaker to get an "unfair advantage"? Or don't you think that Whitaker who easily made 147 making Chavez come up to 145 who never had a good win above 140 was an "unfair advantage"? You don't think Oscar making Pac who only had 1 fight at 135 and by all account was against a bum asking him to got 147 was an "unfair advantage"? I mean Cotto was a top 3 WW, a heavy handed WW... Pac only other WW fight was against a guy who by all accounts was walking dead at 147. There was no proof that Pac could take a true WW punch... So the catch-weight at 145, which is 1 pound less than what Cotto weight in his previous fight, could be seen as to keep it fair from both sides.... Mind you even you knowing that it was at 145 still thought Cotto was going to win. So how can you say it looks like purely for an unfair advantage? What the odds show is that who the majority of people on voting on winning. Odds show people thought Hagler was going to win those fight, people Pac was going to lose those fights... And, that is that point...

This was a good post my main beefs with it is three things: 1. With the Flyweight/Featherweight thing. Pac outgrew that weight class so fast that he skipped 2 up to to 122. Im saying its not impressive for him to do that considering how quick he outgrew flyweight. He SHOULDVE been able to do that. 2. The 145 Catchweight Thing: What bothers me about this is that it was uncalled forand done puerly for an unfair advantage. Cotto only took this fight because he was forced by Arum. When Cotto was on that golf course with Oscar he was most likely told if you dont re-up with me you dont get a Pac fight. Cotto sold out for the cash just like JMM did. Also Mosley was avilible and was the Number 1 WW and the man at the weight. 3. The odds thing. In order to make money and a profit odds get swung in one way or another. Just because odds makers (mind you guys trying to make money) doesnt have a fighter favored doesnt take away from his wins. Floyd is favored over Shane but if Floyd wins he still gets credit. Oddsmaker have to make a profit. :boxing::boxing::boxing:

p-will, hands down, better defense and u cant deny that. manny is second

Did u see the betting odds for the Cotto fight.......he was paying close to $5......so in reality yes the people that count thought Pac would win easily........$4.65 odds.......that is the very definition of people thinking Pac would beat Cotto with ease........... and u would do a lot better to contextualise the Oscar situation....the people criticising it could not have know oscar would be making his ring entrance with a saline drip still in his arm............ Roach himself has said Oscar was completely finished, HAtton was on shaky legs since Floyd and that Cotto was shot......his own trainer!!!!!!!!! Dude nobody thought Pac was going to win that easy... After round 1 it was all Pac... Nobody thought Pac would of been chasing Cotto around the ring... Nobody thought in 2 rounds Hatton was going to be asleep... Roach was saying Oscar was finished before the fight. But, nobody was agreeing with him... People felt going in that Hagler was going to have an easy win against Duran, but that wasn't the case... Going into the fight people really feared for Leonard life... But, it was a competitive fight. Going in Hagler was the favorite going into those bouts... Pac wasn't... And, then after the fact looking back at it we want to make excuses on why Pac won... To say Pac does not have a case for the #2 spot over Hagler is insane IMO...

Just noticed that all those who are hating on pac have red rep. :lol1:

i saw this promo for the fight march 13th and burt sugar(boxing historian) said that manny might be the GREATEST left hander of all time. they made me sit back and think... is he??? What a crock of shit? Manny Pacquaio would not even rank among the top 20 southpaws of all time, let alone the best of all time. I am so sick of seeing all of the stupid ass threads about Pacquaio being the best of all time from the Pacquaio servants; and by servants, I mean the fans on this site as well as the bloggers of this site and everyone else who can't see beyond the last two years of their lives. By the way, for all the clowns on here who talk about his seven titles in seven divisions, keep in mind that until about 30 years ago, there were only about half the weight classes there are now and only two championship organizations, so you can't compare what Pacquaio is doing now to what someone did 30 years ago before the IBF and WBO and all the junior divisions existed.

Most accomplished, but not the best.

SSM v Floyd = competitive....look at the odds.... Pac v Cotto v Clottey = u can almost get 5 to 1 in Pacs favour........ These are the real pros....... you will find over time if u had the betting odds vs any so called boxing expert in picking fights the betting odds will come out on top...........

7 titles and 7 divisions, 4 lineal titles in 4 divisions... I don't see how that can not be that impressive in this day and age since nobody has done it in the last 20-30yrs... lets not act like these weight-classes and titles were not around for the last 20-30yrs. Because they were... And, he was the only one who accomplished it. If it easy then why hasn't anybody else done it? So I don't see how that can not be impressive... And, lets not forget that Whitaker-Chavez fought at the same catch-weight of 145. Not for no paper title mind you but for the lineal true WW title... Nobody cared about the lineal title being up for grabs at 145 so why do we care so much now for the WBO title to be up for grabs at 145? So IMO that catchweight holds no water... And, the most underrated stat in all this is that the flyweight division and the featherweight division was around for over a 100yrs so was the lineal belt. Pac is the only fighter ever to win the lineal belts in both weight-class. Again if it so easy and not that impressive then why did nobody else accomplished it in over 100yrs... And, I don't want to diss Hagler he fought all those ATG's but lets not forget he was the favorite to win all of them... I know for a fact he was a favorite to beat Leonard, people feared for Leonard life, he was a huge favorite over Duran, I think he was the favorite against Hearns but I am not so sure with that one... Not trying to diss Hagler cuz I have so much respect for him but he was favored to win those fights going in... Barrera was not on the level of Duran, Hagler, and Leonard. But, he was favorite to beat Pac... Ledwaba not on there level but ranked #2 at 122 was favored to beat Pac and Pac fought that in 3 weeks notice. Oscar yes not on the level on those ATG's even though people thought he was shot and drained was a favorite to beat Pac. Matter of fact people were pissed on Oscar for picking on Pac... Everybody was considering it a mismatch in Oscar favor. Pac destroyed all this guys even Hatton and Cotto nobody thought Pac was going to do it that easy before hand. But, after the fact people wanted to make excuses on why he did it so easy... And, that is not fair to Pac... My point is I can do that to Hagler but I won't due to the fact that I have such a high respect for the man. But, it is insane to say that Pac does not have a case for the #2 spot... Especially after all the upsets and accomplishments he has... Did u see the betting odds for the Cotto fight.......he was paying close to $5......so in reality yes the people that count thought Pac would win easily........$4.65 odds.......that is the very definition of people thinking Pac would beat Cotto with ease........... and u would do a lot better to contextualise the Oscar situation....the people criticising it could not have know oscar would be making his ring entrance with a saline drip still in his arm............ Roach himself has said Oscar was completely finished, HAtton was on shaky legs since Floyd and that Cotto was shot......his own trainer!!!!!!!!!

u cant f0ck with sweet pea.... zab any1? (style wise) zab makes it look nice with his slick style.... nice and crisp

7 titles and 7 divisions, 4 lineal titles in 4 divisions... I don't see how that can not be that impressive in this day and age since nobody has done it in the last 20-30yrs... lets not act like these weight-classes and titles were not around for the last 20-30yrs. Because they were... And, he was the only one who accomplished it. If it easy then why hasn't anybody else done it? So I don't see how that can not be impressive... And, lets not forget that Whitaker-Chavez fought at the same catch-weight of 145. Not for no paper title mind you but for the lineal true WW title... Nobody cared about the lineal title being up for grabs at 145 so why do we care so much now for the WBO title to be up for grabs at 145? So IMO that catchweight holds no water... And, the most underrated stat in all this is that the flyweight division and the featherweight division was around for over a 100yrs so was the lineal belt. Pac is the only fighter ever to win the lineal belts in both weight-class. Again if it so easy and not that impressive then why did nobody else accomplished it in over 100yrs... And, I don't want to diss Hagler he fought all those ATG's but lets not forget he was the favorite to win all of them... I know for a fact he was a favorite to beat Leonard, people feared for Leonard life, he was a huge favorite over Duran, I think he was the favorite against Hearns but I am not so sure with that one... Not trying to diss Hagler cuz I have so much respect for him but he was favored to win those fights going in... Barrera was not on the level of Duran, Hagler, and Leonard. But, he was favorite to beat Pac... Ledwaba not on there level but ranked #2 at 122 was favored to beat Pac and Pac fought that in 3 weeks notice. Oscar yes not on the level on those ATG's even though people thought he was shot and drained was a favorite to beat Pac. Matter of fact people were pissed on Oscar for picking on Pac... Everybody was considering it a mismatch in Oscar favor. Pac destroyed all this guys even Hatton and Cotto nobody thought Pac was going to do it that easy before hand. But, after the fact people wanted to make excuses on why he did it so easy... And, that is not fair to Pac... My point is I can do that to Hagler but I won't due to the fact that I have such a high respect for the man. But, it is insane to say that Pac does not have a case for the #2 spot... Especially after all the upsets and accomplishments he has... This was a good post my main beefs with it is three things: 1. With the Flyweight/Featherweight thing. Pac outgrew that weight class so fast that he skipped 2 up to to 122. Im saying its not impressive for him to do that considering how quick he outgrew flyweight. He SHOULDVE been able to do that. 2. The 145 Catchweight Thing: What bothers me about this is that it was uncalled forand done puerly for an unfair advantage. Cotto only took this fight because he was forced by Arum. When Cotto was on that golf course with Oscar he was most likely told if you dont re-up with me you dont get a Pac fight. Cotto sold out for the cash just like JMM did. Also Mosley was avilible and was the Number 1 WW and the man at the weight. 3. The odds thing. In order to make money and a profit odds get swung in one way or another. Just because odds makers (mind you guys trying to make money) doesnt have a fighter favored doesnt take away from his wins. Floyd is favored over Shane but if Floyd wins he still gets credit. Oddsmaker have to make a profit.

Wow! Guys, I just wanted to say that I've been reading the entire thread and really really great discussion and very informative. Thanks for a great read!!:boxing:

Well for starters how impressive is 7 titles in 7 (or 6 whatever) divisions in this day and age......really??? When you have: - WBO - IBO - WBA - WBC - IBF etc When u can win a title from diaz at 135......when u can win a title at a catchweight......no problem with a catchweight but sanctioning bodies should not be able to put the title up at any weight other than the official one.... lets not forget it was a paper title that Cotto won from Jennings......a title that Arum had every intention of passing to either Clottey or Pac......Roach and Pac chose Cotto for the money....not because they fight the best.....i have no problem with that....but why say otherwise........ It's just not as impressive in this day and age....... Hagler fought Leonard, Hearns and Duran....he beat 2 of them....an argument can be made that he beat all 3.......and this is when championship matches were 15 rds......... hagler = number 1 or 2.......pac = number 3 at the absolute highest!!!! 7 titles and 7 divisions, 4 lineal titles in 4 divisions... I don't see how that can not be that impressive in this day and age since nobody has done it in the last 20-30yrs... lets not act like these weight-classes and titles were not around for the last 20-30yrs. Because they were... And, he was the only one who accomplished it. If it easy then why hasn't anybody else done it? So I don't see how that can not be impressive... And, lets not forget that Whitaker-Chavez fought at the same catch-weight of 145. Not for no paper title mind you but for the lineal true WW title... Nobody cared about the lineal title being up for grabs at 145 so why do we care so much now for the WBO title to be up for grabs at 145? So IMO that catchweight holds no water... And, the most underrated stat in all this is that the flyweight division and the featherweight division was around for over a 100yrs so was the lineal belt. Pac is the only fighter ever to win the lineal belts in both weight-class. Again if it so easy and not that impressive then why did nobody else accomplished it in over 100yrs... And, I don't want to diss Hagler he fought all those ATG's but lets not forget he was the favorite to win all of them... I know for a fact he was a favorite to beat Leonard, people feared for Leonard life, he was a huge favorite over Duran, I think he was the favorite against Hearns but I am not so sure with that one... Not trying to diss Hagler cuz I have so much respect for him but he was favored to win those fights going in... Barrera was not on the level of Duran, Hagler, and Leonard. But, he was favorite to beat Pac... Ledwaba not on there level but ranked #2 at 122 was favored to beat Pac and Pac fought that in 3 weeks notice. Oscar yes not on the level on those ATG's even though people thought he was shot and drained was a favorite to beat Pac. Matter of fact people were pissed on Oscar for picking on Pac... Everybody was considering it a mismatch in Oscar favor. Pac destroyed all this guys even Hatton and Cotto nobody thought Pac was going to do it that easy before hand. But, after the fact people wanted to make excuses on why he did it so easy... And, that is not fair to Pac... My point is I can do that to Hagler but I won't due to the fact that I have such a high respect for the man. But, it is insane to say that Pac does not have a case for the #2 spot... Especially after all the upsets and accomplishments he has...

He might be more skilled but not greater than Chavez... Whitaker in his prime schooled ATG's went up to 154 and scored the most underrated win in his career againast a very strong Julio Cesar Vazquez(who dropped Winky liek 5 times) beat HOF'er like Azumah Nelson and top fighters like Ramirez and Paez... Whitaker is top 15-20 all time... Even if Pac beats Floyd he might not even break top 20 it would depend on how he wins. But, I doubt and if he did it will be in the lower teens. Whitaker would still rank higher... Oh naw Im talkng pure skill and talent. Pac beats Mayweather hes the best Lefty IMO. Even the old heads recognize Floyds skill level its really insane and for Pac to beat him it will go along way.