Along with their fans. I'm not saying that all of their fans are bad posters. But they all make excuses of why these guys shouldn't fight the most dangerous fighters out there. We've been over Calzaghe a million times and I don't really feel like talking about him since he's retired.
First off, Hopkins is getting ready to take a fight with a a shot ass Roy Jones and most of his hardcore fans at least somewhat defend him of not giving Chad Dawson the shot at him he deserves. That's not right.
Swithcing gears I have never came across one Chad Dawson fan that calls him out on taking a whole nine months off waiting on an injured fighter to heel to fight him and they constantly defend him for it like 2501. He says that Pascal is a better fighter than Cloud. I strongly disagree. Of course there's a slight possibility that he is since Cloud and Pascal have never fought head to head before. But if you analyze each guy's performance against the best fighters they've fought you will see that Cloud has out performed Pascal by miles.
What do Froch, Diacanu, Gonzales, and Woods all have in common. They are tough iron-chinned pressure fighters with Diacanu being the most questionably chinned fighter because the only puncher he's ever beaten is Rico Hoye. What's Pascal's record against Froch and Diacanu? Well, he lost to Froch at a lower weight class than 175 and had to go to war with Diacanu to beat by him decision him in two fights.
Cloud on the other hand was the first guy to TKO Gonzales and he came really close to knocking Woods' head off his shoulders with that hook in the 7th or 8th round (don't remember which one it was). Now Woods is a respected veteran who has fought good fighters like a prime Roy Jones, a prime Gonzales and Glen Johnson. Who has Diacanu fought? And yet these posters like 2501 claim that Pascal is a better win on Dawson's resume when it's Cloud who has the higher KO percentage along with being undefeated. These Dawson apologists don't want to admit that Chad is taking the path of least resistance by taking on Pascal instead of Cloud.
What do Dawson, Hopkins, and Calzaghe all have in common? They all have fans who are apologetic to them, they have boring styles, and they either retire (Calzaghe is the only one to do that) or take long layoffs and don't give fans the fights they want to see against their most dangerous challenger (except for when Dawson fought Johnson both times, though when the rematch happened after a lot of people including myself thought he lost the first fight, Johnson's legs were too old to be able to cut a big ring off on Dawson to make a difference).
Now the thing that Tavoris Cloud has in common sadly with those other guys is he too fights very infrequently. But he was Dawson's mandatory for over a year so do you blame him all that much for sitting out a whole year thinking maybe there was a possibility that he might have gotten a shot at Dawson?
Hopefully since Cloud and Johnson have exciting styles they can bring some life into this division. But the only fighter out of the five that has an exciting style and fights frequently against anyone, anywhere is the Road Warrior, Glen Johnson.
The problem with Calzaghe, Hopkins, and Dawson is they don't have the courage to match their talent. That is all.
Man, Dawson is not ducking Cloud.
Cloud could have been on HBO on the Dawson-Tarver II undercard, if he didn't press the IBF mandatory, since Tarver had a rematch clause in the first fight that Chad had to fight.
But Cloud wanted his shot and instead chose to face Woods for the vaant title on ESPN2.
Pascal has proven himself to be the best 175 pounder not named Hopkins, Johnson, or Tarver. Even though I like Cloud, Dawson ducking him is ridiculous.
And I absolutely hate the fact that Hopkins is fighting Roy Jones at this stage and don't say or do anything to condone it. But if you knew the behind the scenes situation with Dawson you would know that HBO only put out $3 million for Hopkins and Dawson to split down the middle. And this is after Hopkins just made 3 or 4 million to fight Pavlik. But I still don't excuse Hopkins for fighting Roy Jones because there are other fighters I can think of besides Jones and Dawson. Some that come to mind are Adamek, Chambers, Cunningham, Toney, and even Bute. All those guys at least stand a chance of beating Hopkins.
And if Cloud beats Johnson and Dawson doesn't fight him, Dawson will pretty much be doing the same exact thing that Hopkins is doing by leaving the Ring belt vacant because Ring has just dropped Hopkins underneath Johnson at 175. Can't say I don't agree with it either.
I don't even care tbh. I was never a big fan of Diaconu or Bute for that matter. I rooted for Andrade in both Bute fights.
I think you put too much stock in the Julio Diaz fight. Diaz should've retired long ago. He had no legs and nothing left so I was not surprised to see a young guy like Cloud beat him.
Woods having his knees buckled is ok I guess, but outside of a few moments like that I thought that was a pretty close and competitive fight.
It's Julio Gonzales boss. Julio Diaz was a Lightweight who is Antonio Diaz's brother.
I definitely agree with you about Dawson. He is a soft HBO pansy in the vein of Andre Berto.
Too much HBO money, too soon and now he lost his hunger and is a primadonna who only wants soft HBO money fights. I don't think he wants to fight someone rugged and hungry like Cloud if he could help it.
He'd rather fight Glen Johnson again if Johnson beats Cloud.
Which I could see happening easily.
I know how much you like Froch, so me saying Pascal isn't that good probably loses points in your book. Lol. I don't think Pascal is a bad fighter, and never said he was. I just think Cloud is better. I don't think Pascal has got the power to stop Gonzales the way Cloud did, and I don't think he could buckle Woods' knees like Cloud did. Cloud is 20-0 with 18 KOs while Pascal is 26-1 with 15 KOs with his only notable win being against Diacanu. I know you don't want me saying anything bad about Diac because you are Romanian.
Dawson is pretty much sacrificing money to avoid Cloud. Otherwise he'd be fighting in April or May instead of waiting for an injured fighter to get healthy. So this crap about Cloud not bringing any money is rubbish. He's gonna be on HBO in his next fight.
Another thing too, Glen Johnson is ranked #2 right behind Dawson. So if Cloud beats him, are you guys gonna make up some more excuses of why Dawson shouldn't fight him?
Sometimes fighters don't have to have the best resumes to be good either. Look at Valero as an example. Cloud just needs to fight more often than he does.
People need to relax with Dawson.
Cloud has done very little. Very, very little. The guy hardly ever fights.
Dawson beat Adamek. Then he beat Glen Johnson and everyone cried robbery. Then he beats another top dog in the division, Tarver. Old or not, he was still a titlist and was ranked high at LHW. Than Tarver excercised his rematch clause, Dawson didn't want to fight Tarver. So you can't give Dawson shit about that.
Meanwhile, everyone was still bitching about him giving Johnson a rematch. He does that and barely loses a round. And people still find a reason to bitch.
Instead of sitting there complaining about Dawson not fighting him, Cloud needs to be way more active and start making a name for himself.
You're dislike for Dawson is more than just professional, its personal. There is nothing Dawson could do to ever earn your respect. He could fight Cloud tomorrow, knock him out in one round and you would make a thread the next day citing Cloud's inactivity and then pick another lower ranked fighter that Dawson would be ducking.
How could I discredit the win if Cloud beats Glen Johnson in the lead up to a Dawson fight? I would have no choice but to give full props.
You're one of the decent posters about this subject that's not biased. I can dig that.
Thanks.
To be honest, while I like Dawson's skills and style (I know we disagree there), I'm not really a fan of his. I just sometimes question your reasoning.
Nothing personal.
You're dislike for Dawson is more than just professional, its personal. There is nothing Dawson could do to ever earn your respect. He could fight Cloud tomorrow, knock him out in one round and you would make a thread the next day citing Cloud's inactivity and then pick another lower ranked fighter that Dawson would be ducking.
The only problem I've had with you is that you disregard Dawson vs Pascal because you simply don't rate Pascal highly. While I don't think he's a great fighter, he's still a good, young fighter in the division. You also know that I've said he should fight BOTH Pascal and Cloud.
You're one of the decent posters about this subject that's not biased. I can dig that.
The only problem I've had with you is that you disregard Dawson vs Pascal because you simply don't rate Pascal highly. While I don't think he's a great fighter, he's still a good, young fighter in the division. You also know that I've said he should fight BOTH Pascal and Cloud.
And Paul Williams dodged every top fighter at 154(save one who had to be dragged up a weight class) to fight a very rusty Wink Wright and to cop out of a fight with the best middleweight in the world in Kelly Pavlik.
Idiotic post that has jack shit to do with this thread you clown.
The only fighter Hopkins has ever dodged is Chad Dawson. He's 45, so he gets some leeway, but I agree that he's wasting everybody's time fighting Roy. That fight's a joke.
Bad time to make this thread I guess. It might get lost in all this traffic about tonight's fights I'm afraid. But I thought it was relevant because Glen Johnson fought last night.
16y ago
Joe Calzaghe, Bernard Hopkins, and Chad Dawson are like peas in a pod. | BoxingScene Community