How come nobody ever puts lennox lewis on their top 10 heavyweights of all time lists

most lists i seen have him in top 5 You must be looking at British lists then. Most boxing historians rate him either just inside or just outside the top 10. Monte D Cox, one of the most respected boxing historians in the business, rates him at #9. The International Boxing Research Organisation or IBRO (whose ratings are a consensus poll of 30 of the most highly respected boxing historians) ranks him at #12.

Who on Earth scored the second fight for Holyfield? Lots of people did, including some boxing experts, although a majority scored it narrowly to Lewis. You simply don't know how to score a fight if you thought Holyfield won that fight. Rubbish. E.g. see The New York Times: "Many people at ringside felt Holyfield landed more telling blows and should have won the bout." And Cliff Rold of Boxingscene: "Holyfield fell short, first in a controversial draw few thought Holyfield came close to winning and then in a decision rematch which had a vocal minority favoring Holyfield ... Even after the drubbing he took in the ‘draw’ with Lewis, it was Holyfield whose game made the second fight. Jabbing to the chest and raising the angle of his right hand, Holyfield stunned Lewis a few times with newly created offensive openings. A case could be made that, in the end, the results in the Lewis fights were correct on their records if in the wrong order. "

Lewis vs McCall (1) was stopped correctly i know because i was there... you was not there so you dont know so please dont comment on it because like i said "you was not there" here is a link... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0eins2DhSo I still don't agree and you shouldn't presume that I wasn't there. I wasn't, but I could have easily been. Lewis was the No1 contender, why would Tyson drop the belt?... in 1996 Lewis was thought of as nothing more than a 1st round KO for Tyson.. he had just been poleaxed by Tysons sparring partner so would have been a huge outsider against Mike Tyson Maybe you considered Lewis this way, but I don't recall anyone thinking like that. Why would Mike Tyson drop the belt? To avoid facing Lewis. Either because he would have been a difficult opponent or because he wasn't going to produce a big payday. 1995 Lewis was offered a gauranteed $10 million to face Riddick Bowe.. its been well documented on this site.. look for yourself a source there will be dozens to read and you will educate yourself. its upto yourself to read up on boxing and find the sources for your information... Haha. No it isn't up to me to find sources for your claims. It's up to you to back up your claims with evidence. 43 of 48 boxing journalists at ringside had Holyfield a clear winner of their rematch..here is a link from a british fight publication.. http://www.boxing-monthly.co.uk/content/9912/one.htm Fair enough. 43 scribes didn't score that fight right then. Lewis refused to fight the No1 contenders because he knew he could not beat them and that they was at the top of their game and not class C fighter who was on the downside of their career like the huge majority of Lewis opponents... Ruiz had put Holyfield on the canvas something Lewis never came near to doing in 24rds Haha. Scared of Ruiz? Please. You're making yourself look foolish now. i can recall very little hype or demand for Lewis vs Grant thats why the fight was not fought in Las Vegas.. Well perhaps I've just considering the boxing hardcore here, but I remember discussing it a lot with American boxing friends. Tua has been beaten each time he has fought an opponent who was rated above class C with the exception of his "Lucky first-punch" victory over John Ruiz 15yrs ago Perhaps. I'm not suggesting he is World-class anyway. I'm just calling him a very solid opponent. you claiming Mike Tyson was NOT past his best is laughable... he was at least 10yrs past his best, he had been hammered by Buster Douglas 12yrs earlier & Holyfield 6yrs earlier, he had served a total of 5yrs in prison and was a `shell of the once great fighter`.. his losses to Williams & McBride prove he was past it... Please don't put words in my mouth. I said that Mike Tyson was still better than the majority of the heavyweight division at the time, not that he wasn't past his best. who was the "credible opposition" Lewis fought which you claim, instead of fighting Byrd.... Fans Botha? I was referring more to Tua, but I already know what you think of him... Lewis was slumped on his stool knackered when his fight with Klitschko was stopped and to almost everyone watching Lewis did not have more than one more round in him, to claim otherwise is simply deluding yourself :lol1: Suit yourself. I haven't met anyone who hadn't given the last two rounds of the fight to Lewis. Regardless, he won legitimately by TKO and we will never know how that fight would have gone on.

It's also partly because his legacy fights were against fighters who were well past their prime; vitali klitschko, hasim rahman, david tua.

I didn't say they were Class A fighters. I'm saying that they were solid opposition. It was a World title fight and he should have been given a chance to continue. He didn't look so glassy that he didn't stand a chance of surviving the round. Lewis might well have been decked again, but we don't know. Cop out. Give me a source. No, he did not have to accept step-aside money but he also wasn't getting a guaranteed title shot - Tyson could have just dropped the belt. Everything else you're saying is just your spin on the situation, not the cold facts. So easy to say from the fan position and in hindsight. It's been documented that Bowe gave up his title rather than fight Lewis (although you've decided to spin that as Lewis 'pricing himself out'). Then 43 of 48 ringside journalists didn't score the fight right. I'd like to see a source for that anyway. The number one contenders Lewis didn't face were Byrd and Ruiz, opponents that couldn't deliever big paydays. I don't condone him not facing them though, I just understand the reasoning. Lewis would have been a big payday and a very credible opponent for Bowe. I agree, but it didn't stop the hype and the demand for the fight at the time. Have you never watched James Toney at heavyweight? Anyway, that doesn't matter as Tua was and still is very solid opposition for anyone at heavyweight. I don't disagree that he was past his best, but I stand by the claim that he was still better than 90% of the other heavyweight opposition out there at the time. Your last point about Danny Williams and Kevin McBride is irrelevant as those losses occured afterwards. He may have said that, but the bigger reason was the lack of cash. Lewis fought credible opposition instead anyway. You cannot say that for sure. Lewis was losing by two rounds at most and had won the last two rounds and it could therefore be argued that he had the momentum in the fight. Lewis won by genuine TKO anyway as the cut was caused by a punch, even if Lewis was a little fortunate. Lewis vs McCall (1) was stopped correctly i know because i was there... you was not there so you dont know so please dont comment on it because like i said "you was not there" here is a link... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0eins2DhSo Lewis was the No1 contender, why would Tyson drop the belt?... in 1996 Lewis was thought of as nothing more than a 1st round KO for Tyson.. he had just been poleaxed by Tysons sparring partner so would have been a huge outsider against Mike Tyson 1995 Lewis was offered a gauranteed $10 million to face Riddick Bowe.. its been well documented on this site.. look for yourself a source there will be dozens to read and you will educate yourself its upto yourself to read up on boxing and find the sources for your information... 43 of 48 boxing journalists at ringside had Holyfield a clear winner of their rematch..here is a link from a british fight publication.. http://www.boxing-monthly.co.uk/content/9912/one.htm Lewis refused to fight the No1 contenders because he knew he could not beat them and that they was at the top of their game and not class C fighter who was on the downside of their career like the huge majority of Lewis opponents... Ruiz had put Holyfield on the canvas something Lewis never came near to doing in 24rds i can recall very little hype or demand for Lewis vs Grant thats why the fight was not fought in Las Vegas.. Tua has been beaten each time he has fought an opponent who was rated above class C with the exception of his "Lucky first-punch" victory over John Ruiz 15yrs ago you claiming Mike Tyson was NOT past his best is laughable... he was at least 10yrs past his best, he had been hammered by Buster Douglas 12yrs earlier & Holyfield 6yrs earlier, he had served a total of 5yrs in prison and was a `shell of the once great fighter`.. his losses to Williams & McBride prove he was past it... who was the "credible opposition" Lewis fought which you claim, instead of fighting Byrd.... Fans Botha? Lewis was slumped on his stool knackered when his fight with Klitschko was stopped and to almost everyone watching Lewis did not have more than one more round in him, to claim otherwise is simply deluding yourself

because they are morons.

Tucker was way past his best and a crack-cocaine addict, Bruno had been knocked out 3 times with two of the 3 being knocked unconscious.. so certainly not Class A fighters I didn't say they were Class A fighters. I'm saying that they were solid opposition. Lewis got poleaxed.. i was at the fight and McCall silenced 14,000 fans with one big punch.. many at ringside was shouting "Stop it" as Lewis fell into referee`s arms.. the fight was rightly stopped and as Lewis left the ring 10 minutes after being stopped he had to be helped down the ring steps by his handlers, his eyes was still glassy, he was out of it.... It was a World title fight and he should have been given a chance to continue. He didn't look so glassy that he didn't stand a chance of surviving the round. Lewis might well have been decked again, but we don't know. its been proven many times on this forum.. Cop out. Give me a source. Lewis "DID NOT" have to accept the step-a-side money.. he could have easily said `no-thanks` and took a gauranteed world title shot and career highest purse.. he accepted because being No1 contender he did not fancy his chances against that version of Mike Tyson and waited 6yrs more and several more prison sentences for Mike Tyson to completely self-destruct before fighting him. No, he did not have to accept step-aside money but he also wasn't getting a guaranteed title shot - Tyson could have just dropped the belt. Everything else you're saying is just your spin on the situation, not the cold facts. Lewis should have been going after the big fish of the heavyweight division, Bowe, Tyson, Moorer, Mercer, Witherspoon, Sanders, Holyfield, Foreman instead of fighting a guy he knew was in a drug-rehab. So easy to say from the fan position and in hindsight. It's been documented that Bowe gave up his title rather than fight Lewis (although you've decided to spin that as Lewis 'pricing himself out'). 43 of 48 ringside journalists scored the fight for Holyfield. Then 43 of 48 ringside journalists didn't score the fight right. I'd like to see a source for that anyway. Lewis fans like to claim Riddick Bowe ducked him but wont accept Lewis was stripped of his belts for refusing to fight the No1 contenders... The number one contenders Lewis didn't face were Byrd and Ruiz, opponents that couldn't deliever big paydays. I don't condone him not facing them though, I just understand the reasoning. Lewis would have been a big payday and a very credible opponent for Bowe. Michael Grant was floored twice in the opening round against Golota and behind on the cards when Golota suddenly quit... Grant was well exposed as `Nothing-Special`... I agree, but it didn't stop the hype and the demand for the fight at the time. David Tua was the fattest man in history to fight for the title.. Have you never watched James Toney at heavyweight? Anyway, that doesn't matter as Tua was and still is very solid opposition for anyone at heavyweight. Tyson was more than a decade past his best having been brutally KOd by Buster Douglas 12yrs earlier and KOd by Holyfield 6yrs earlier.. Tyson had served several prison sentences and on fight night was heavily sedated with anti-depressants...Tyson was KOd by both Danny Williams & Kevin McBride and was a shot fighter.... I don't disagree that he was past his best, but I stand by the claim that he was still better than 90% of the other heavyweight opposition out there at the time. Your last point about Danny Williams and Kevin McBride is irrelevant as those losses occured afterwards. Lewis was stripped for refusing to fight Chris Byrd claiming Byrd `posed no threat` yet Byrd beat Holyfield and Tua far easier than Lewis had.. He may have said that, but the bigger reason was the lack of cash. Lewis fought credible opposition instead anyway. Klitschko would have beaten Lewis.... You cannot say that for sure. Lewis was losing by two rounds at most and had won the last two rounds and it could therefore be argued that he had the momentum in the fight. Lewis won by genuine TKO anyway as the cut was caused by a punch, even if Lewis was a little fortunate.

So I see you aren't prepared to defend your claims. Fair enough I suppose, a lot of what you said was pure spin or conjecture. Tucker was way past his best and a crack-cocaine addict, Bruno had been knocked out 3 times with two of the 3 being knocked unconscious.. so certainly not Class A fighters Lewis got poleaxed.. i was at the fight and McCall silenced 14,000 fans with one big punch.. many at ringside was shouting "Stop it" as Lewis fell into referee`s arms.. the fight was rightly stopped and as Lewis left the ring 10 minutes after being stopped he had to be helped down the ring steps by his handlers, his eyes was still glassy, he was out of it.... its been proven many times on this forum.. Lewis "DID NOT" have to accept the step-a-side money.. he could have easily said `no-thanks` and took a gauranteed world title shot and career highest purse.. he accepted because being No1 contender he did not fancy his chances against that version of Mike Tyson and waited 6yrs more and several more prison sentences for Mike Tyson to completely self-destruct before fighting him. Lewis should have been going after the big fish of the heavyweight division, Bowe, Tyson, Moorer, Mercer, Witherspoon, Sanders, Holyfield, Foreman instead of fighting a guy he knew was in a drug-rehab. yes Briggs was one of the weakest title holders in history a class c fighter. 43 of 48 ringside journalists scored the fight for Holyfield. Lewis fans like to claim Riddick Bowe ducked him but wont accept Lewis was stripped of his belts for refusing to fight the No1 contenders... Michael Grant was floored twice in the opening round against Golota and behind on the cards when Golota suddenly quit... Grant was well exposed as `Nothing-Special`... David Tua was the fattest man in history to fight for the title.. The manner in which Lewis lost puts a huge "Black-Mark" against his standing in historical terms... The referee could have counted to 100 and Lewis would not have beaten the count... Hasim Rahman had never before or never since been able to KO and opponent in the manner in which he poleaxed Lewis.. so it has to be said that Lewis does not have the greatest punch resistance. Tyson was more than a decade past his best having been brutally KOd by Buster Douglas 12yrs earlier and KOd by Holyfield 6yrs earlier.. Tyson had served several prison sentences and on fight night was heavily sedated with anti-depressants...Tyson was KOd by both Danny Williams & Kevin McBride and was a shot fighter.... Lewis was stripped for refusing to fight Chris Byrd claiming Byrd `posed no threat` yet Byrd beat Holyfield and Tua far easier than Lewis had.. Klitschko would have beaten Lewis.... All Time list Lewis is No14

So I see you aren't prepared to defend your claims. Fair enough I suppose, a lot of what you said was pure spin or conjecture. i have defended them if you check

lewis is overated as a heavyweight. Prime Tyson would have knocked him out cold, hense why he ducked him for years. Lewis was very smart and picked his big fights when he felt they were shadow of themselves.

Klitschko would have beaten Lewis.... All Time list Lewis is No14 So I see you aren't prepared to defend your claims. Fair enough I suppose, a lot of what you said was pure spin or conjecture.

Pure conjecture. Not a good start to your list. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0eins2DhSo Tony Tucker and Frank Bruno, both alphabet belt holders at one time or another. I'm not sure what you consider C class fighters to be. I'm not sure who he should have been fighting here. Anyway, this is just your personal spin on the period. Tucker was way past his best and a crack-cocaine addict, Bruno had been knocked out 3 times with two of the 3 being knocked unconscious.. so certainly not Class A fighters I'll correct this for you: Lewis gets TKO'd in controversial fashion after the referee refuses to allow him to continue despite the fight being a championship bout and Lewis beating the count comfortably. Lewis got poleaxed.. i was at the fight and McCall silenced 14,000 fans with one big punch.. many at ringside was shouting "Stop it" as Lewis fell into referee`s arms.. the fight was rightly stopped and as Lewis left the ring 10 minutes after being stopped he had to be helped down the ring steps by his handlers, his eyes was still glassy, he was out of it.... Give me a source. I'm not saying you're wrong here, but I want some proof. its been proven many times on this forum.. Again, give me a source. As I understand it, Tyson wanted nothing to do with Lewis at the time and Lewis couldn't get the fight. Lewis "DID NOT" have to accept the step-a-side money.. he could have easily said `no-thanks` and took a gauranteed world title shot and career highest purse.. he accepted because being No1 contender he did not fancy his chances against that version of Mike Tyson and waited 6yrs more and several more prison sentences for Mike Tyson to completely self-destruct before fighting him. Hardly the fault of Lewis. It's up to McCall what shape he enters the bout in. Lewis should have been going after the big fish of the heavyweight division, Bowe, Tyson, Moorer, Mercer, Witherspoon, Sanders, Holyfield, Foreman instead of fighting a guy he knew was in a drug-rehab. ...and your problem with this is? Briggs has to be one of the weakest linear champions of all-time, but he was still the champ. yes Briggs was one of the weakest title holders in history a class c fighter. Who on Earth scored the second fight for Holyfield? You simply don't know how to score a fight if you thought Holyfield won that fight. It was closer than the first fight, but still a clear Lewis victory. Holyfield was probably past his best, but he was still World-class opposition. 43 of 48 ringside journalists scored the fight for Holyfield. Oh shit! He didn't fight John Ruiz! Take him out of the top fifty! Michael Grant was hyped as the next big American heavyweight and it isn't the fault of Lewis if he didn't match the hype. I'd hardly call David Tua C-class either. Lewis fans like to claim Riddick Bowe ducked him but wont accept Lewis was stripped of his belts for refusing to fight the No1 contenders... Michael Grant was floored twice in the opening round against Golota and behind on the cards when Golota suddenly quit... Grant was well exposed as `Nothing-Special`... David Tua was the fattest man in history to fight for the title.. Fair enough. If you ask me, this is the stain on his career. Lewis should have never lost to Rahman. I give him credit for taking care of business in the rematch however. The manner in which Lewis lost puts a huge "Black-Mark" against his standing in historical terms... The referee could have counted to 100 and Lewis would not have beaten the count... Hasim Rahman had never before or never since been able to KO and opponent in the manner in which he poleaxed Lewis.. so it has to be said that Lewis does not have the greatest punch resistance. Can you blame Lewis for going after a career high payday and a fight against Mike Tyson instead of a nobody contender? Lewis had wanted a fight with Tyson for years. This version of Tyson was indeed a shell of the former champion, but still better than 90% of the rest of the division. Tyson was more than a decade past his best having been brutally KOd by Buster Douglas 12yrs earlier and KOd by Holyfield 6yrs earlier.. Tyson had served several prison sentences and on fight night was heavily sedated with anti-depressants...Tyson was KOd by both Danny Williams & Kevin McBride and was a shot fighter.... Lewis was stripped for refusing to fight Chris Byrd claiming Byrd `posed no threat` yet Byrd beat Holyfield and Tua far easier than Lewis had.. Oh Lewis was certainly fortunate that Klitschko was cut because it was a close fight, but anyone claiming that he was definately going to lose is talking crap. Lewis was down by a round or two at most, but had won the last two rounds before the bout was stopped. I would have liked to have seen a rematch, but Lewis did the smart thing and called it a day, realising that he had just passed his expiration date. Lewis is in any credible top ten heavyweight list. Klitschko would have beaten Lewis.... All Time list Lewis is No14

When a guy like George foreman who fought in 4 decades says he's the BEST ever you have to consider it.he said he ducked him in his later years & would have ducked him in his prime...everyone has their opinions & mine is he's a top 5. U think George would of ducked Lennox in his prime...................... I hope you mean after the Ali fight, matter of fact not even George was a beast in his prime and considered one of the hardest hitting men in that era...

When a guy like George foreman who fought in 4 decades says he's the BEST ever you have to consider it.he said he ducked him in his later years & would have ducked him in his prime...everyone has their opinions & mine is he's a top 5.

Lennox was a very good boxer but he didnt bring alot of excitment to his fights, I liked watching him but he didnt put alot of people in their seats...

most lists i seen have him in top 5

Dude gimme some credit man lol im 17 and only got into boxing about 1 year and a half ago...so far so good researched etc into loads of boxers and watched there documentaries and fights.....and Hayes the man :) lets hope he beats Ruiz in My Home City Hah, fair enough. Keep up the research. Just bought my ticket for the Haye-Ruiz fight. I just hope Ruiz doesn't stink the joint out too much. I imagine Haye will get him in the later rounds though.

Not a bad list, although Liston wouldn't have made my list and I think both Tyson and Dempsey are a little high. My List: 1. Muhammad Ali 2. Joe Louis 3. George Foreman 4. Rocky Marciano 5. Larry Holmes 6. Lennox Lewis 7. Evander Holyfield 8. Mike Tyson 9. Jack Johnson 10. Jack Dempsey Note: If Gene Tunney had fought more at heavyweight, he'd have to replace Dempsey who I must admit I consider to be a little romanticised thanks to the period he represented. Dude gimme some credit man lol im 17 and only got into boxing about 1 year and a half ago...so far so good researched etc into loads of boxers and watched there documentaries and fights.....and Hayes the man :) lets hope he beats Ruiz in My Home City

Dude check my signature and in the Top 10 HW off all time Lennox Lewis Is Definately there Not a bad list, although Liston wouldn't have made my list and I think both Tyson and Dempsey are a little high. My List: 1. Muhammad Ali 2. Joe Louis 3. George Foreman 4. Rocky Marciano 5. Larry Holmes 6. Lennox Lewis 7. Evander Holyfield 8. Mike Tyson 9. Jack Johnson 10. Jack Dempsey Note: If Gene Tunney had fought more at heavyweight, he'd have to replace Dempsey who I must admit I consider to be a little romanticised thanks to the period he represented.

IS it just cuz he got knocked out by 2 average fighters?? Dude check my signature and in the Top 10 HW off all time Lennox Lewis Is Definately there