All of this back and forth is irrelevant btw
http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/8678/postervaleroguerrillas.png
Valero & Venezuela > than every other country + god, pancakes, liposuction, silent auctions, shoehorns, compound fractions & weiner dogs combined.
Deal with it bitches.
I don't disregard them, but to use them as a gauge of where the countries stand as dominance is a little absurd. I know this is a little harsh but to me belts are becoming like the myth known as the P4P list, which sucks. Boxing now has become an eye test and takes much research and love for the sport to follow it, but if you do, you know who is producing the world class athletes. Americas quantity has dipped over the years but the quality of world class fighters is still very, very strong when you compare it to the world. Euros are doing good but they are not up to the level of the States.
I understand that you don't need a belt to prove you are better, but they are important to make fights.
Also Europe having a lot of belts does show signs that boxing is strong.
If Cunningham isn't good what does that say about one of the belt holders Huck? That's what I'm saying, belts don't mean much because you don't have to be world class to have one. Also, by your arguments the guys that some of these guys should fight, are also Americans which further backs my statements. You want Hop to fight Dawson, well Dawson doesn't have a belt, so does that mean he is shit? There are tons of great American fighters that don't have belts and most of them are better than these paper title holding Euros.
Dawson had a belt when Hopkins chose to fight Pavlik actually. Without belts there are catch weights like Pavlik-Hopkins.
Belts do mean shit to me. Every fighter wants to have a belt when they come from nothing.
I'll be honest I havent seen much of Huck.
Cunningham is not a great fighter at all.
I'm not saying belts mean you are a great fighter, but you can not disregard them.
Belts don't mean anything in my book because there are so many of them. You don't have to be an amazing fighter to snatch up one of the major 4 belts in your division. Also, do you discredit fighters like Williams, Cunningham, Mayweather, or Hopkins because they don't have a strap? Using the belt argument is flawed and skewed to make other countries look closer than they truly are. America is still producing the best talent, it's still not that close.
Martinez was robbed vs Williams
Adamek spanked cunningham, so would Haye. Wlodarczyk beat him already too
Erdei should have a belt
We could do this all day. In regards to my Amateur comment i said it as it pertained to the future because, yes, Amateur boxing is the best possible indicator for the future of the pro ranks.
:bottle: need formula for that bottle?
Belts don't mean anything in my book because there are so many of them. You don't have to be an amazing fighter to snatch up one of the major 4 belts in your division. Also, do you discredit fighters like Williams, Cunningham, Mayweather, or Hopkins because they don't have a strap? Using the belt argument is flawed and skewed to make other countries look closer than they truly are. America is still producing the best talent, it's still not that close.
Cunnigham isn't that good for me IMO.
Williams, Mayweather and Hopkins good though.
However Hopkins hasn't fought in a year. Who knows how good he is now at 45. He also chooses to fight Roy when Dawson was wanting.
He basically ducked him right?
Mayweather had Cotto, Marg, Williams to fight, but he chased the money and then retired for suspcious reasons.
Williams can't get a fight. He's good, and can easily get a belt, but the ducking from others that he has is nothing comapred to the lack of opportunity a euro fighter has. Williams is too damn open for me.
At the end of the day, belts make boxing wahat it is. It is used to measure greatness.
For me Calzaghe is a really good fighter, I don't need hsi WBO belt to know that, but he wouldn't even be known as much without what he did.
Same for other fighters.
Without Championship belts, there will be less non boxing fans turning up to fights. Less people watching on TV
Marco Huck got beat by Cunningham but he now has a belt and Cunningham doesn't. Belts don't mean a damn thing in the sport anymore. If you're good, people know it and you don't need a belt for proof. Please stop acting like Eastern Euro's have passed by America because it's false. As for the AM's yeah the Euros are doing well but it means nothing because AM boxing is not PRO boxing.
Belts do mean shit
Cunningham got bet up by adamek
Mosely lost to Cotto and has a belt, doesn't mean that he is not a good fighter or Cotto isn't either
In pro boxing Americans get much more of a chance to win belts.
The top promoters can afford to buy purses and make fights. Even if a European gets a chance to fight, half the time the ring, glove and location is favoured by the US promoters who have the money
well
1) he was talking about HW's
2) the things i mentioned Combat Sambo, Kickboxing, MMA, Hockey, Rugby are more applicable for boxing since they're tough and have already proven they can take a punch compared to Basketball for example, where anytime i'v seen them 'fight' it looks like a gay pride parade.
but yes, for maybe 154-175 there would definitly be some 'imaginary talent' playing football/soccer too.
True that.
There are some big goal keepers with great reflexes though
I thought Williams had a belt too. Did he vacate or something? Either way belts aren't the end all to be all. We all know who the top fighters are in the world and America still is far ahead of the other countries and Mexico still owns the smaller divisions, despite recent struggles. Europe has a long way to go if they want to compete with America and Mexico in the sport.
lol wtf, not only are they competing but they have more Championship belts than America with a smaller population and own your ass even worse in the Amateurs, a good insight for the future. Keep taking those meds.
What about football (Soccer)
well
1) he was talking about HW's
2) the things i mentioned Combat Sambo, Kickboxing, MMA, Hockey, Rugby are more applicable for boxing since they're tough and have already proven they can take a punch compared to Basketball for example, where anytime i'v seen them 'fight' it looks like a gay pride parade.
but yes, for maybe 154-175 there would definitly be some 'imaginary talent' playing football/soccer too.
Do we really have to go over this again.
Boxing isn't #1 in European countries either. Combat Sambo, Kickboxing, MMA, Wrestling, Powerlifting, Weightlifting, Worlds Strongest Man Comps, Hockey, Rugby etc etc etc.
American isn't the only country with 'imaginary HW's' competeing in other sports, the same flawed logic can be applied to anywhere else. Keep telling yourself whatever you need to dumbass.
What about football (Soccer)
So true, too bad the best athletes in the world not just in the US play in the NBA, NFL, NHL, and MLB! If those sports didnt exist then I doubt any other country would have major belts in the upper divisions.
Do we really have to go over this again.
Boxing isn't #1 in European countries either. Combat Sambo, Kickboxing, MMA, Wrestling, Powerlifting, Weightlifting, Worlds Strongest Man Comps, Hockey, Rugby etc etc etc.
American isn't the only country with 'imaginary HW's' competeing in other sports, the same flawed logic can be applied to anywhere else. Keep telling yourself whatever you need to dumbass.
no, u cant change that, but in your heart some of us are
but if he continue to be great in Germany he will be at least in German boxing-history as one of the greatest German boxers.
All that demonstrates is how pitiful German Boxing history is, that you have to claim other people as your own.
Schmeling.....Ottke am i forgetting anyone?
stop about that nationality thing; so Americans are all British & Irish & Dutch ...
the guys right; Abraham & Huck & Sturm fight for the German flag; period.
And you've asked all of them this?
The fact that you use the America comparison that you did shows that you don't belong in the discussion.
c'mon which flag is always hoisted in fights.
which national anthem is always playing when Abraham is going to fight in fight nights...which ones
for which country is abe winning belts...?
Abraham is a Armenian-German. if he dont want to be German. no problem he can deposit his citizenship, but he wont because he considering himself as German fighter with Armenian Proud. he also can go in Armenia and box there, but he wont because hes still a German fighter.
In the NHL why do they only play the US or Canadian Anthems............cuz they're playing in North America dumbass.
Most countries don't allow you to hold duel citizenship and in Germany it's technically possible but only under a few exceptions. He won't surrender his German citizenship cuz Germany is where he earns his living.
The people on here who are trying to claim that just because you move to another country due to Professional and Economic endeavours somehow means that a person surrenders their Heritage, Identity, & Ethnicity are fooking retarded, no debate.
Add up Ukraine, Germany, Armenia, UK and they have 13 belts with a combined population is 192 million. Add Zaveck at 147 and 14 belts with 194 million.
USA 11 belts for 307 million
So true, too bad the best athletes in the world not just in the US play in the NBA, NFL, NHL, and MLB! If those sports didnt exist then I doubt any other country would have major belts in the upper divisions.
Add up Ukraine, Germany, Armenia, UK and they have 13 belts with a combined population is 192 million. Add Zaveck at 147 and 14 belts with 194 million.
USA 11 belts for 307 million
Eric Morel just won over the weekend the WBO 118lb belt so add one more to Puerto Rico...
I think he did not won the belt... He just won the right to face the WBO 118 champion which is Montiel...