"SMOKING" JOE FRAZIER vs "THE EASTON ASSASIN" LARRY HOLMES

A lot of younger fans seem to overestimate Mike Tyson's ranking among the all-time heavyweights. But a lot of people seem to have forgotten what the young Tyson was like, and what he meant. Like Muhammad Ali, Tyson, in his prime, was a thing of beauty to behold -- for somewhat different reasons. Ali was poetry in motion, with his blinding speed, reflexes and coordination. Tyson, on the other hand, was ferocious, powerful and efficient. He had fast hands and feet; he threw short punches in combinations with fearsome power in both hands; he had excellent body control and recovered quickly from missed punches; and he moved in with fast, frequent head movement. The man was a fighting machine. At his peak, an argument could be made that Mike Tyson could beat any heavyweight that ever lived. I totally agree Tyson at his peak I would say from 1986-1989 would have a chance against any HW in a head to head match up. The later years post prision was a Tyson that did less and less of what you spoke about in your post and just went for the one punch KO. In the beginning he used his jab effectively, he went to the body and mixed in punches to the head. He threw punches in bunches and bounced around on his toes using his peek a boo style guard with very good head movment to avoid the jabs coming from the larger opponents with longer reach. He had everything you needed to be effective on the inside and all the tools to get him there to create the pressure that would put the most skilled boxers into a shell. Towards the later years he fought flat footed his head movement was no where near what it used to be. He rarely used his jab or mixed in body shots and most of his assualt were one or two punch combos at the head.....Lefty

Tyson when he first came up was much more than just an educated brawler his technic and haed movement combined with his foot speed and hand speed were amazing. his power was great but not like Foremans. He had power in both hands unlike Frazier who was more of a left hand guy. Tyson also could knock you out with punches you did not see coming. The pure fear of most fighters in the ring was llegendary and the fact that people did not bet on the winner of the fight only in what round Mike would knock you in was crazy. To simply say that Holmes would beat Iron Mike prime for prime because Mike was being humble and said it is breezy my friend.....Lefty A lot of younger fans seem to overestimate Mike Tyson's ranking among the all-time heavyweights. But a lot of people seem to have forgotten what the young Tyson was like, and what he meant. Like Muhammad Ali, Tyson, in his prime, was a thing of beauty to behold -- for somewhat different reasons. Ali was poetry in motion, with his blinding speed, reflexes and coordination. Tyson, on the other hand, was ferocious, powerful and efficient. He had fast hands and feet; he threw short punches in combinations with fearsome power in both hands; he had excellent body control and recovered quickly from missed punches; and he moved in with fast, frequent head movement. The man was a fighting machine. At his peak, an argument could be made that Mike Tyson could beat any heavyweight that ever lived.

To simply say that Holmes would beat Marciano easily is pure garbage. Honestly I have not seen enough of Marciano or know much about that time in history to make a decisive decision but the one thing I do know is about his heart and chin because I have been told many a story about it from people who have seen it. Fighters from way different era's. Marciano would muscle his way in and land punches where ever he could. I think truly think the fact that people claim he is over rated by simply saying who did he fight is terrible. I still canot tell you who would have won marciano or Holmes....Lefty It's always difficult to compare fighters from different eras, but it's fun to try. Marciano was rather less skilled than most heavyweight champions. It doesn't take too many films to figure that one out. But what Rocky lacked in speed and skill, he made up for in the crudest departments. The man had unparalleled will. Guys like Ali and Frazier had this quality in abundance, but Marciano stood above them in this area. The "Rock" could knock down a brick wall with his right hand. We're talking legendary punching power here. While there may have been harder punching heavyweights, Marciano P4P was probably the hardest hitting heavyweight of all time. His ability to take punishment was superhuman. With his nose split down the middle against Ezzard Charles, Marciano roared back to KO his opponent in the eighth round of their rematch. With these three qualities, only the finest boxers could hope to pull off a win against the relatively primitive Marciano. Larry Holmes had all the tools to defeat Rocky Marciano. Wether he would have, we'll never know. But one has to think that he would've won a match with the "Rock." Holmes is the much bigger man, with the longer reach to shoot out that hammer jab. He would have finished what Ezzard Charles couldn't. I believe Marciano was the greater champion...but this is a question of match-ups.

...Ezzard Charles was a LHW version of SRR that went to HW to fight Marciano, twice I think, who was really a small HW anyway...you guys seem to be missing the important thing with Marciano, he was murder on the body...I think Frazier had a better chance with Marciano then Holmes... Kabuki Joe I agree with just from some of the clips and what my grandfather and father told me was he would punch you in your arms shoulders basically anything he could hit until you could not guard your self any longer. Then when you were exhausted and your arms and body was shot to pieces he went head hunting....Lefty This is gong to be part of our segment on GET UR FACTS STRAIGHT - FANTASY FIGHTS....FEB 1st.....Come on fellas lets get it in on this....Lefty

Ofcourse Frazier was a better fighter than Shavers...but I'm talkin' about a punch here...more specifically...the power of one historic punch vs. another... and you know where I stand on that... I don't know the most about Marciano either...but Marciano never faced anyone like a Holmes...with that kind of jab, generalship, and overall package...he would be significantly outsized too... and I forgot to mention...even though Tyson (a modern blended version of Dempsey, Marciano, Frazier) beat an old Holmes, Tyson himself admitted that a PRIME Holmes would have beaten him...it's a Styles thing...and Mike understands that... At an Elite level...I will almost always take the bigger, taller pure boxers with a great jab/right hand combo over the shorter, smaller, swarming, educated brawlers with a big punch... ...Ezzard Charles was a LHW version of SRR that went to HW to fight Marciano, twice I think, who was really a small HW anyway...you guys seem to be missing the important thing with Marciano, he was murder on the body...I think Frazier had a better chance with Marciano then Holmes... Kabuki Joe

and I forgot to mention...even though Tyson (a modern blended version of Dempsey, Marciano, Frazier) beat an old Holmes, Tyson himself admitted that a PRIME Holmes would have beaten him...it's a Styles thing...and Mike understands that... At an Elite level...I will almost always take the bigger, taller pure boxers with a great jab/right hand combo over the shorter, smaller, swarming educated brawlers with a big punch... Tyson when he first came up was much more than just an educated brawler his technic and haed movement combined with his foot speed and hand speed were amazing. his power was great but not like Foremans. He had power in both hands unlike Frazier who was more of a left hand guy. Tyson also could knock you out with punches you did not see coming. The pure fear of most fighters in the ring was llegendary and the fact that people did not bet on the winner of the fight only in what round Mike would knock you in was crazy. To simply say that Holmes would beat Iron Mike prime for prime because Mike was being humble and said it is breezy my friend.....Lefty

I like Holmes by close UD in this fight. I see a lot of people making the inevitable Ali-Holmes comparisons but the difference in my opinion is that Larry sat down on his punches. He didn't just flick his jab out there either, it was a hard punch. His right hand was near impossible to see when follwed by the jab and he had an excellent uppercut. Larry may taste the canvas in this one much the way Ali did in 71, but he's get up and by the 11th round Fraziers face would be showing the effects of Holmes punches. Fraziers aggression is tough to look past but its Holmes accuracy that wins this fight in my opinion.

Tha lLeft Hook Frazier dropped Ali with in the 15th round was legendary. It was the 15th round too imgaine how tired Ali was too boot. he got up at the count of 3. and there was plenty of time in the round and Ali finished the bout in his feet. Shavers although he was powerful he was not the fighter Frazier was. Frazier was motivated when he fought Ali like no other. Ali taunted Frazier and made comments about him that Frazier is pissed about until this day. Frazier>>>Shavers........Frazier beats Holmes KO in 12 or 13. To simply say that Holmes would beat Marciano easily is pure garbage. Honestly I have not seen enough of Marciano or know much about that time in history to make a decisive decision but the one thing I do know is about his heart and chin because I have been told many a story about it from people who have seen it. Fighters from way different era's. Marciano would muscle his way in and land punches where ever he could. I think truly think the fact that people claim he is over rated by simply saying who did he fight is terrible. I still canot tell you who would have won marciano or Holmes....Lefty Oh believe me Holmes would beat Marciano very easily. Marciano was too small, and way too slow, and he did not hit hard enough to do damage on the defensive Holmes. Lets not forget Jersey Joe who was around 50 was way ahead before he got caught late. Homes stops Marciano on cuts.

Anyone can get hurt at anytime at any weight if you catch 'em right....especially at Heavy. but I guess you're disregarding or don't know about The Almighty BOMB Holmes got dropped with by Shavers (who Ali said was the hardest hitter he faced)...only to get up and proceed to whoop Shaver's ass. Really...Holmes Chin and Heart was Extraordinary, bro... Frazier's leaping left hook that caught Ali was a monster...but I'd have to say that Shaver's right hand on Holmes was more powerful and deadlier. Tha lLeft Hook Frazier dropped Ali with in the 15th round was legendary. It was the 15th round too imgaine how tired Ali was too boot. he got up at the count of 3. and there was plenty of time in the round and Ali finished the bout in his feet. Shavers although he was powerful he was not the fighter Frazier was. Frazier was motivated when he fought Ali like no other. Ali taunted Frazier and made comments about him that Frazier is pissed about until this day. Frazier>>>Shavers........Frazier beats Holmes KO in 12 or 13. lol...not true, but true...in that Holmes would decisively beat Marciano as well iMo... It don't bother me at all that Larry said that because he almost always backed it up...lol...yep....although he had money problems back then, his mouth WAS writin' checks his ass COULD cash. They don't make 'em like Holmes anymore...nowadays, we have spineless, metro, professional shit talkers like David Haye...smh To simply say that Holmes would beat Marciano easily is pure garbage. Honestly I have not seen enough of Marciano or know much about that time in history to make a decisive decision but the one thing I do know is about his heart and chin because I have been told many a story about it from people who have seen it. Fighters from way different era's. Marciano would muscle his way in and land punches where ever he could. I think truly think the fact that people claim he is over rated by simply saying who did he fight is terrible. I still canot tell you who would have won marciano or Holmes....Lefty

i think it was Muhammad Ali greatest career performance.. he never fought like that before or after the Frazier (1) fight I hope you're joking.

...after 3 years of mandatory "rest and relaxation"...he was in his late 20's I think and the physical peak for the human male...he (Ali) might have been rusty but he was still better then Holmes ever was...Holmes had a great run as champion but I don't think he ever had a great win against a great opponent... Kabuki Joe You do realize inactivity dulls the reflexes and affects your timing right?

This would be an amazing match but I gotta go Frazier by close decision. I don't think Holmes jab would be as effective as some think

i think it was Muhammad Ali greatest career performance.. he never fought like that before or after the Frazier (1) fight It may be his greatest career performance that is not the same as Ali being at his physical best. He was definitely motivated for the Frazier fight, possibly more than any other fight, but if he had that same determination at his physical peak the result may have been different.

i think it was Muhammad Ali greatest career performance.. he never fought like that before or after the Frazier (1) fight It was not his greatest fight at all. His legs took a big hit during his three years out, so he could not dance like he did before.

This is one fight I have had on my mind for a while now. Can Frazier hunt down Holmes get past that jab and do a job on him? He would need to get inside to land the BIG LEFT HOOK. Or does the Easton Assasin control the fight with his SMOOTH JAB and bottle him up when Joe gets inside. Holmes had only been stopped 1 time Joe was stopped two times once by Foreman and the other time was when he didn't come out in the 15th in Manilla Personally I think that Joe stops him late after losing the first 6. It all depends on how Joe deals with the jab and swelling in the eye area. Weight: Heavy Weight Rounds: 15 (10 point must system) Gloves: 8 ounces (punchers gloves) Ring: 20 x 20 (smaller ring) Venue: Madison Square Garden (Mecca Of Boxing) Refferee: Arthur Mercante Sr (tough reff but fair) Make your picks! :boxing: http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=759&pictureid=6490 I know most people will pick Holmes but I think Frazier would have been hell for Holmes. Holmes never rematced Mike Weaver for a reason and I think he would have done his best to avoid Frazier. I see Frazier winning a decision.

to be fair..that wasnt a prime ali..it was a ali who returned after 3 years i think it was Muhammad Ali greatest career performance.. he never fought like that before or after the Frazier (1) fight

Very good fantasy fight. man this fight is really hard o assume. I do not see either man getting stopped. If I had to choose, I would say a draw, or Frazier by decision

Frazier loses the early rounds, but starts to smoke around the middle rounds, and stops Holmes late. Holmes had a lot of similar qualities to 70's Ali, but I don't think he was as quite as durable or as fluid/mobile, which would make the difference against Frazier.

...I've seen Holmes hurt by lesser fighters then Frazier...Ali was on the canvas 2 times I think, once agaisnt the white guy from the UK and the other by Frazier...both times I think it was a single left hook...btw Foreman never hurt Ali like Frazier did...what I think a lot of people that watch boxing don't understand is "one punch power" and Frazier could put someone down with one left hook...I have a bunch of favorite fighters and Frazier is one of them...he was gritty, he could "bang" and he was a little guy like Marciano...I think eventully Frazier would land that left hook on Holmes and it would be over... Kabuki Joe Marciano couldn't hold Holmes jockstrap.

I'm gonna talk some Boxing with you... I believe Larry Holmes would stop Frazier before the 14th round....allow me to explain why I think so... First of all...Holmes had just as much Chin and Heart as Ali and Frazier...secondly, Holmes' jab and measuring was better than Ali's...he also had a better right hand than Ali...some people may not agree with all that....but I see it as obvious.... This would be basically be another Battle Of Wills...and I think Holmes would make Frazier pay dearly... Holmes, being The General in this matchup, would shoot the jab like a piston...from a proper, long distance...Frazier would be willing to eat a good amount of these laser sharp jabs as he would know that's the only way to get in....and remember...Great jabs add up faster than simply "good" jabs... and then, when Frazier would make it past the original wave and got in closer, that's when the measuring would commence...Holmes was the absolute BEST at using his arms to measure aggressive opponents... but Frazier would make it past that stage too... and that's where The Big Right Hand would be waiting...it would either come from underneath via uppercut, or straight from the shoulder...it wasn't the most powerful right hand like Foreman's...but it was definitely hard enough the job done... Yeah....it would be brutal punishment on display, and I don't think Frazier would be as "ready to die" as he was against Ali... I'd say the referee steps in and stops the torture in the 12th round.... Regards, SKULLSPLITTER - The CEO ...I've seen Holmes hurt by lesser fighters then Frazier...Ali was on the canvas 2 times I think, once agaisnt the white guy from the UK and the other by Frazier...both times I think it was a single left hook...btw Foreman never hurt Ali like Frazier did...what I think a lot of people that watch boxing don't understand is "one punch power" and Frazier could put someone down with one left hook...I have a bunch of favorite fighters and Frazier is one of them...he was gritty, he could "bang" and he was a little guy like Marciano...I think eventully Frazier would land that left hook on Holmes and it would be over... Kabuki Joe