The Benefits of Steroids May Never Go Away -- Even When Athletes Quit Taking Them

The demands for OST's were not to determine if Pac ever took peds in the past, but rather he wants to make sure that Pac isn't taking peds while training for the fight with him. Also he has never once accused Pac of being a steroid user. Not once. If you believe other wise find it and post it. Finding out if Pac is taking PEDs while training is only an intermediate goal of the tests. To see the actual goal of the tests, you have to think a little bit and ask yourself why Floyd wants to know if Pac will be taking PEDs during training vs. Floyd. Answer: To ensure that neither fighter is unfairly enhanced. Can you disagree with this? The purpose of the tests is to make sure that neither fighter is unfairly enhanced. Is this statement false?

Put on your thinking cap for a minute, will ya? Why did Floyd demand OSTs from Pac? The demands for OST's were not to determine if Pac ever took peds in the past, but rather he wants to make sure that Pac isn't taking peds while training for the fight with him. Also he has never once accused Pac of being a steroid user. Not once. If you believe other wise find it and post it.

Just look at Shane Mosley. He's dangerous due to the juice.

Don't tell me this is Bernardo. :pat:

Because he agreed to the testing and Pacquiao didn't. Same answer for a differently worded question. This answer works on several levels against everything you just detailed. Furthermore, your questions is based on your own opinionated theory and personal speculation as to why he even asked for the random testing. Whether or not he's trying to make sure the fight is executed on a level-playing-field or if he's just trying to see if there's anything to expose about Pacquiao to the public, is up in the air. So now we move on to the next point. Just like everything else, that's just you and your speculation. The point of the matter is, Floyd is finding himself willing to fight Mosley due to Mosley accepting the random drug testing, while Pacquiao couldn't agree to it. One fighter allowed an opening to the deal, the other didn't. The case is still as simple as that. You're beating around the bush, because as I stated before, you're speculating, making assumptions, and asking different questions that all lead to the same counter-answer. Let me give you an example: If you and I are trying to make a deal with our fight. Let's assume both you and I were aware of the points that were brought up in the article you sourced, where use of PEDs can have "permanent" effects supposedly. But lets say I still demanded a certain drug testing style in the contract. And you didn't agree to it. And then let's say a second guy came up to me and said he'd agree to everything in the contract, but this guy is a known PED user. Fact of the matter is, he agreed to the contract, you didn't. So the fight is made. Now whether or not I'll still take the fight is up to me on a personal level. But that's besides the point, because the facts here state that you agreed to the terms on the contract which means if the fight doesn't happen, it would be because of me due to the ball being in my court if I decided on a personal level not to fight you despite you agreeing to everything in the contract. True, true, but contracts are drawn up based on underlying principles, are they not? Floyd's testing demand was based on an underlying principle: no fighter should be unfairly enhanced. Agree? Disagree? Is he going to abandon that principle to fight Mosley? That's the million dollar question. I'm 50/50 on it, not sure if he will or not.

HGH is very healthy for people in their 30s. In effect it creates a second "puberty", bigger influx of hormones, and revitalizes the person. Of course those benefits don't go away.

Yeah I've known about the retained benefits for a while and posted about them on this site before. There are various medical articles supporting this.

You're beating around the bush now because you can't directly rebuttal my points. My points which btw, destroyed yours. We can speculate on that all we want, but if you ask for my opinion I'd agree and say it was because he wants to make sure Pac is not on something due to what his father brought up. But that's avoiding answering the very question you imposed in your topic starter, which was "Why is Floyd not fighting Pacquiao because he thinks he's on PEDs but is fighting Mosley who is a proven PED user?" Not quite the same question I asked. Here was my question: If Floyd wouldn't fight Pac because he thinks Pac is enhanced, and thus wanted the Olympic Style Tests, why would he fight Mosley who he already knows is enhanced, regardless if he's clean now (see article above)? The real issue is not really about the test itself. The heart of the issue is about what you can discover from the test: to determine if a fighter has an unfair biochemical advantage. Do you agree with this or not? Even if Mosley is clean now, he may still be unfairly enhanced due to his confirmed, admitted past steroid use, which, per the sourced article I posted, may have conferred him permanent unfair benefits. If Mayweather wouldn't fight someone who he only thinks is unfairly enhanced, yet has no real proof (Pac), why would he fight someone who he knows for a fact is unfairly enhanced, by Shane's own documented, confirmed, under-oath admission of past steroid use? And the answer to that, again, for the third time now slow guy, is because Mosley agreed to the testing, Pacquiao didn't. It's as simple as that. Was that too hard still or should we go for the fourth? Luckily usually a third time's a charm. I hope that applies to sub-100 IQ pactards too though. You keep saying Floyd would have fought Pac if Pac had just agreed to the tests. That isn't necessarily true. What if Pac agreed, and then Pac tested positive? Would Floyd fight him then? I'll assume your answer is hell no. The point is Floyd supposedly wants to know whether his opponent has an unfair advantage or not. Whether he finds that out through a test, through someone's admission under oath, however he finds out doesn't matter. "Is my opponent unfairly enhanced?" That's the central question of that whole debacle. That's the question that killed the Pac-Floyd fight. Floyd could not be sure that the answer was "No." Will it kill the Mosley-Floyd fight? Even when (not if, but when; Shane is probably clean now) Shane passes an Olympic Style Test with flying colors, can Floyd be sure that the answer to that central question is "No," given Shane's past steroid use and the potential benefit he might still be getting from it, as described in the article that was posted? "Is my opponent unfairly enhanced?" :thinking:

No, he's not NOT fighting Pac because he thinks Pac is on PEDs, he's not fighting Pac because Pac never agreed to the testing. Mosley did. Think before you post. he's not fighting pac because he thinks he can't win against pac.

Even if Shane is clean now, which I think he is, why would Floyd fight someone who is already proven to be enhanced? :thinking: Help me out here. :thinking: its because floyd knew that he has a great chance to win against floyd. but even an old and out of prime mosley will still give floyd a very tough fight.

Cheaters Do Prosper Scientists in Sweden Make a Stunning Claim: The Benefits of Steroids May Never Go Away -- Even When Athletes Quit Taking Them (APRIL 4, 2008) ... http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB120727718845788653-vWNMBzI6Skijh6ZtHSwZk2g1Mcw_20080504.html?mod=tff_main_tff_top So I ask, what is the point of Olympic Style Tests on Mosley? What does Floyd's team hope to achieve in this case? Shane has likely already benefited from steroids, per the article above, even if he's clean now. Why would Floyd fight someone who is proven to be enhanced? Isn't that why he wouldn't fight Pacquiao, because they suspect Pacquiao is enhanced and won't submit to Olympic Style Tests? Well, with Mosley, they don't have to suspect anything, it's already proven Mosley took steroids and enhanced his body. :thinking: If Floyd wouldn't fight Pac because he thinks Pac is enhanced, and thus wanted the Olympic Style Tests, why would he fight Mosley who he already knows is enhanced, regardless if he's clean now (see article above)? :thinking: :feedback: i think because floyd himself is using steroids.

I did follow my own advice, it's you who didn't. Again, think before you post. Whether or not he thinks Pac is on PEDs, the point of the matter is if Pac agreed to the testing, they would be fighting. So again, the answer to your question of: "Why is Floyd not fighting Pacquiao cuz he thinks Pacqiuao is on PEDs but is fighting Mosley who is a proven PED user?" is Because Pacquiao did not agree to the testing, but Mosley did. See how simple that was? Here I'll say it again. Think before you post. Pactards have sub-100 IQ. Simple question: Why did Floyd demand that Pac undergo Olympic Style Testing? For what purpose? Answer this simple question, please. The answer is obvious, but I want to hear it confirmed from someone else to make sure I'm not insane.

If this shit was true, everyone in the game would be taking steroids. You could just take steroids in the off season when no one does any testing. You'd reap the benefits with little to no consequences, either physically or legally.

I noticed that pro wrestlers and baseball players lose a lot of size and muscle when they get off the juice. So there is obvious atrophy and decline when an athlete stays clean. You aint joking. http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/articlefiles/8729-KevinRandlemanPrideUSA.jpg

I noticed that pro wrestlers and baseball players lose a lot of size and muscle when they get off the juice. So there is obvious atrophy and decline when an athlete stays clean.

Does this thread apply to all PEDs or just anabolic steroids?

Yes, it's based on the same paper by Ericcson. Here's another one based on the same paper: In simple terms, using anabolic steroids changes muscle anatomy to the extent that it primes the muscle to make gains even long after athletes have stopped using the drugs. Relating that information back to the original question of whether steroid gains are retained, the answer would be yes, but with a caveat. A major reason that steroid-induced gains appear to evaporate when the drugs are stopped is that many athletes either lay off all training after a contest or severely cut back on intensity. Inactivity amplifies cortisol’s effect and can cause muscle loss. On the other hand, if athletes continus to train with high intensity, there’s no reason their muscle gains would disappear. http://www.ironmanmagazine.com/site/?p=2655 Thanks for the article link. Gonna bookmark it and read it over in the morning with a large cup of coffee.

Without a doubt I would say (1). You also have to take into account that long term benefits of steroids wasn't on camp Mayweather's on their mind, because if it was they wouldn't fight Pac or Mosley. Right? True. That's why I'm saying that fight fans need to hope and pray that Schaefer doesn't continue to get "smart" on steroids like he did in between the Zab-Shane negotiations and the Pac-Floyd negotiations. (lol like Schaefer would ever bring up this info to potentially kill a fight between two of his own fighters)

There's truth to that, there is a residual effect, but when guys are on the juice, it's fricken crazy the enhancement in power.

Another point: Even given the conditions and concerns you posted from the article....which of these two assertions has more evidence to back it: 1) Assertion 1: Shane is enhanced and still benefits from past steroid use: Shane has admitted to taking steroids in the past and there is some early scientific data that says he may still be benefiting from them, even if he's clean now. or 2) Assertion 2: Pacquiao is enhanced: Pac has never tested positive for steroids, never been linked to steroids, hasn't gone up in weight as much as Mayweather. I'd say (1) definitely has more evidence behind it. Even if Shane is clean NOW, why would Floyd fight him if there is more evidence that Shane may still be benefiting from past steroid use than there is evidence that Pac has ever used steroids at all? :thinking: Without a doubt I would say (1). You also have to take into account that long term benefits of steroids wasn't on camp Mayweather's mind, because if it was they wouldn't fight Pac or Mosley. Right?