What was Ray Robinson at 5'11 doing at welterweight?

Yes it is. this is boxingscene

This is ridiculous... Yes it is.

Hopkins was green Hopkins did not put everything together until like 1999. He was still learning his craft. You can't say Roy was green cuz Roy had vastly amateur experience. What amateur experience did Hopkins have. You don't think that played a factor? That is a myth. Hopkins was not any more "green" than Jones. Both had extensive amateur careers. Hopkins had nearly 100 amateur fights with a 95-4record. Both were well into their pro careers at the time of this fight. The notion that Hopkins was some sort of novice is just not true. Add the fact that he did not lose another fight for 12 years after. Your claiming that Hopkins did not put it together until 99 is just not true. Why was he winning the 6 years previous to 99 if that was the case? With that said, I too rate Robinson higher.

What he was doing was fighting all-time great welterweights 5'11 Kid Gavilan and 5'10 Fritzie Zivic as well as very good ones such as 6 feet tall George Costner and 5'11 Jackie Wilson. Not to mention that he fought numerous times above welterweight throughout his career even before he officially won the middleweight title. Robinson started as a lightweight by the way and won a non-title bout over lightweight champion Sammy Angott. Good post. You beat me to it.

Didn't John David Jackson at MW? And, Reggie Johnson was a better MW than a LHW. And, like the greatest said Castro was not that good just tough. Roy Jones is overrated. Dude never fought a prime Mike McCallum he waited till Mike was like 40, never fought he amateur rival Gerald McClellan, never fought Jackson, Litte, Liles, Benn, Eubanks, Collins. I mean he never proved he was great. Yea he beat Toney but like you said a solid fighter in Johnson also beat Toney. Toney is very unconsisten. Roy never was the real champ in any of the divisions he campaigned in. I can't believe we are really having this argument of Jones vs Robinson at 160. did toney and bernard fight liles, eubanks, collins, benn, littles and jackson? he never proved he was great? what makes those guys great? well actually toney beat alot of steller competition, but what about brenard? the guy you love so much, how is he a great if jones is'nt? by fighting smaller guys? by having people come up at catchweights?

Hopkins was green Hopkins did not put everything together until like 1999. He was still learning his craft. You can't say Roy was green cuz Roy had vastly amateur experience. What amateur experience did Hopkins have. You don't think that played a factor? True Armstron was passed his prime but he was still pretty good. Is like Hopkins is passed his prime right now but still pretty good right? Ray Robinson beat Lamotta after Lamotta had wins over Zivic, Cerdan, Bell I mean those are great fighters Lamotta was not green. Robinson had wins over other great fighters who were in there prime like Olson and Fullmer. Nobody has to tell me how great Robinson was. I know by looking at who he beat and by looking at as much footage as I can get from him. You can say is Jones fault that he never fought Jackson, McCallum, and McClellan at MW. Jones was not proven as a MW. Yes he looked great fighting tomato cans and prospects. But, Ray Robinson would of looked unbeatable also facing the same comp bernard hopkins had won a boxing tournament at the age of nine jones was 5 going on 6 and would'nt have his first amatuer fight for another 4 years(remember that) bernard hopkins was 95-4 in the amatuers, at the age of 17, before being incarcerated. hopkins boxed while in prison, became the prison champ there(now we know where his dirty tactics come from) so no...i dont think that really played a part when he lost to jones, he'll always lose to a prime roy jones robinsons mediocre head movement would get him in some trouble against roy jones, besides did'nt you know mcclellan was set to fight roy jones after benn? but we all know what happened there right? well, jones did fight mccallum at lightheavyweight, and for such an old out of prime fighter he sure did give james toney all he could handle AFTER fighting jones and getting dominated

jorge did better than most against jones at middleweight because it was a baby green jones, and still does'nt change the fact that all johnsons losses are disputable, i had him beating toney Didn't John David Jackson at MW? And, Reggie Johnson was a better MW than a LHW. And, like the greatest said Castro was not that good just tough. Roy Jones is overrated. Dude never fought a prime Mike McCallum he waited till Mike was like 40, never fought he amateur rival Gerald McClellan, never fought Jackson, Litte, Liles, Benn, Eubanks, Collins. I mean he never proved he was great. Yea he beat Toney but like you said a solid fighter in Johnson also beat Toney. Toney is very unconsisten. Roy never was the real champ in any of the divisions he campaigned in. I can't believe we are really having this argument of Jones vs Robinson at 160.

hopkins was'nt green, or at the very least as green as you make him out to be and jones also nearly exclusively fought with one hand there's always an excuse when someone of the near past has won a fight, weight drained, shot or green ever look at robinsons wins and think maybe armstrong was past prime? lamotta was green? ofcourse your dont, he's a fighter you see in black and white that your father talked greatly about(because he was of his time) and you cant accept otherwise all that aside, you still have'nt answered, me, was it jones fault that hopkins was green(which means jones was green) was it roys fault toney was weight drained?(which i dont think he was), fact is jones stepped up, and ''dominated'' Hopkins was green Hopkins did not put everything together until like 1999. He was still learning his craft. You can't say Roy was green cuz Roy had vastly amateur experience. What amateur experience did Hopkins have. You don't think that played a factor? True Armstron was passed his prime but he was still pretty good. Is like Hopkins is passed his prime right now but still pretty good right? Ray Robinson beat Lamotta after Lamotta had wins over Zivic, Cerdan, Bell I mean those are great fighters Lamotta was not green. Robinson had wins over other great fighters who were in there prime like Olson and Fullmer. Nobody has to tell me how great Robinson was. I know by looking at who he beat and by looking at as much footage as I can get from him. You can say is Jones fault that he never fought Jackson, McCallum, and McClellan at MW. Jones was not proven as a MW. Yes he looked great fighting tomato cans and prospects. But, Ray Robinson would of looked unbeatable also facing the same comp

Same could be said for Amir Khan at 5' 10'' at Lightweight. he's gonna start getting knocked out left and right everytime he tries and step up

Same could be said for Amir Khan at 5' 10'' at Lightweight.

Jorge Castro did better against Jones than he did against Terry Norris at 154 pounds. Castro really wasn't that good, just tough, a near 50 year old Roberto Duran went 1-1 with him. Reggie Johnson was never a true light heavyweight, he was at his best in the early 1990's as a middleweight. It would have been a more interesting fight back then. jorge did better than most against jones at middleweight because it was a baby green jones, and still does'nt change the fact that all johnsons losses are disputable, i had him beating toney

Teri Tom, MS, RD, is a board member of the Bruce Lee Foundation and a certified Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do instructor under Sifu Ted Wong. Teri is also a registered dietitian with a BA in communications studies from UCLA, a master's degree in nutritional science from California State University, Los Angeles, and a certificate in personal training from the National Academy of Sports Medicine. She specializes in sports nutrition and runs her practice out of the exclusive SportsClub/LA in West Los Angeles. She has been Pac's nutritionist since the the pre-DLH fight. Tom said she was challenged to build up Pacquiao’s body mass without compromising his speed and power when he decided to move up two weight classes to fight De la Hoya. “Manny has a history of dipping into the 130s only several weeks into training which was fine when he was fighting at a lower weight but this time, we had to keep him heavy so he’d have some heft going into the ring with Oscar,” wrote Tom in her book “Martial Arts Nutrition.” Tom said in Pacquiao’s diet, she increased the frequency of his meals and switched his supplements. She introduced a protein shake of about 20 grams in the morning before jogging and another 20 grams after his workout in the afternoon. There was also a mid-morning snack, usually an egg sandwich. The goal was to build his muscle mass. Eating a lot of calorie-laden food at his favorite Thai restaurant beside the Wild Card Gym in Los Angeles was not a problem in Tom’s program. “When you’re Manny, you burn through calories like there’s no tomorrow,” said Tom. “My feeling is if he’s four to six percent body fat and losing muscle is a concern, I’m not going to quibble about the Thai restaurant and coconut sauces. It’s more important that he get those calories in and that it’s palatable to him and that he enjoys his food. A lot of people ask me about the four cups of rice he’ll have. Again, not a problem when body fat is coming down and we are preserving muscle.” Tom said a careful balance of nutritional intake is crucial during Pacquiao’s training period. “Carbohydrate intake during extended bouts of exercise has been proved to improve performance,” she noted. “Carbohydrates are key to fueling your alertness and skill whether you’re training or competing.” Reported for spam. :nono:

no i dont think he could, could he do as much with the boxing gloves we have now that allow for more of an impenetrable(obviously not) defence? look at jorge castro(beat duran) and reggie johnson(has never been defeated soundly), these fighters that have given EVERY fighter they've faced such a hard time, what happened when they stepped up to rjj? domination, unlike anything ever seen in the world of boxing Jorge Castro did better against Jones than he did against Terry Norris at 154 pounds. Castro really wasn't that good, just tough, a near 50 year old Roberto Duran went 1-1 with him. Reggie Johnson was never a true light heavyweight, he was at his best in the early 1990's as a middleweight. It would have been a more interesting fight back then.

Robinson and Angott fought three times. The first time in 1941 when Angott held the lightweight title. Robinson and Angott both came in at 136, a pound above the limit. ahh yea, i see it He barely beat the count and after that "never could launch a sustained offensive against the dancing, long-armed Negro who hit him with darting jabs, whistling left hooks and booming bolo punches :nonono:

In the first fight with Anglott was at lightweight the rematch was at welterweight. Maybe Ray weight a pound heavier than the lightweight limit I am not sure I don't remember but it was looked as a lightweight fight. I know for a fact Ray was lower than 140 for the first Anglott fight. Both weighed in at 136. It was not for the lightweight title and thus neither fighter had to weigh in at the 135 lb limit. Robinson was a lightweight at the time and only began campaigning as a welterweight after beating Angott. Having already beaten the champion in the division he didn't really have any reasons to stay at lightweight for.

Ray in his 20's and first 135 fights was as close to being unbeatable as you can get. We don't how good Jones was as a MW cuz we never saw him fight against a very good fighters that were around in his weightclass. The best fighter Roy fought at 160 was a very green Hopkins. And, B-Hop fought even with Jones in the last 8rds. If you don't think Robinson could do better than a very green Hopkins at 160 then either you are really underrating Robinson or really overrated Jones. no i dont think he could, could he do as much with the boxing gloves we have now that allow for more of an impenetrable(obviously not) defence? look at jorge castro(beat duran) and reggie johnson(has never been defeated soundly), these fighters that have given EVERY fighter they've faced such a hard time, what happened when they stepped up to rjj? domination, unlike anything ever seen in the world of boxing

just looked up anglott-robinson and ray weighed 144 and a half In the first fight with Anglott was at lightweight the rematch was at welterweight. Maybe Ray weight a pound heavier than the lightweight limit I am not sure I don't remember but it was looked as a lightweight fight. I know for a fact Ray was lower than 140 for the first Anglott fight.

just looked up anglott-robinson and ray weighed 144 and a half Robinson and Angott fought three times. The first time in 1941 when Angott held the lightweight title. Robinson and Angott both came in at 136, a pound above the limit.

I mean Royd didn't show me nothing really special as a MW. A very green Hopkins fought evenly with Roy for the last 8rds. And, that was a very green Hopkins. Ray Robinson against Roy at MW? It would be easy work for Ray. If a green B-Hop could give Roy trouble. A 10x more skilled Ray would of beat Roy. Jones might have a chance on beat Ray at 175. But, not at middleweight. hopkins was'nt green, or at the very least as green as you make him out to be and jones also nearly exclusively fought with one hand there's always an excuse when someone of the near past has won a fight, weight drained, shot or green ever look at robinsons wins and think maybe armstrong was past prime? lamotta was green? ofcourse your dont, he's a fighter you see in black and white that your father talked greatly about(because he was of his time) and you cant accept otherwise all that aside, you still have'nt answered, me, was it jones fault that hopkins was green(which means jones was green) was it roys fault toney was weight drained?(which i dont think he was), fact is jones stepped up, and ''dominated''

i never said he was'nt the GOAT, i know he's great fighting guys 20 pounds heavier than him alot of times too, he outboxed everyone just try stick to the subject cuz i never said he was'nt the best of all but him being the bast of all also has alot to do with his accomplishment does'nt mean he's unbeatable your not making much sense here, rephrase please Ray in his 20's and first 135 fights was as close to being unbeatable as you can get. We don't how good Jones was as a MW cuz we never saw him fight against a very good fighters that were around in his weightclass. The best fighter Roy fought at 160 was a very green Hopkins. And, B-Hop fought even with Jones in the last 8rds. If you don't think Robinson could do better than a very green Hopkins at 160 then either you are really underrating Robinson or really overrated Jones.