If Roy Jones Beats Both Hopkins and Dawson...

Roy is miles above pac p4p in the ring, but achievement wise Pacman could catch him. But, he will never be as good as Roy in the Ring!

I am really not. But, until Roy wins a real championship a lineal championship then I can not rank him ahead of Pac. He was always the #1 contender to the real championship but never won it. Pac has faced the better competition but hes only pound for pound #1 because floyd retired . Hes been #1 for about a year and a half while roy was on top for about a decde. Roy over pac

The title was vacant. And, the top 2 rated fighters fought for the vacant title. Which were Maske and Hill. How did the lineal title become vacant? Doesn't that throw off the whole "he never won a lineal title" debate?

Julian Jackson was not relevant at the time? Terry Norris was not relevant at the time? McCallum was not relevant at the time? the body snatcher was not relevant at the time? John David Jackson beating Reggie Johnson relevant at the time? But, Reggie was relevant years later at LHW? And, a very green Hopkins was relevant? At SMW Benn, Collins, Liles, Eubanks, McClellan was not relevant? McCallum was not relevant at MW or SMW at the time? But, was relevant years later at LHW? I don't know how you can say how these fighters were not relevant or that they didn't stick around when they were all the MW and/or SMW when Jones was there? I know fights don't happen but all these fighters were top level fighters that didn't happen. There are way more better names of the fights that didn't happen then the names on his resume. That is all I am saying. Terry Norris was never a middle. John David Jackson got stopped by the same Jorge Castro who Jones beat up. And why are you complaining about Jones not fighting Reggie Johnson when Jones fought Toney? Jones was too big for middle when he won the title, which is why he moved up ASAP. You can list a string of opponents for every fighter that could've happened. At the end of the day, you must judge the fighter by his resume. How about you discuss that?

Out of curiousity, how did Maske get the lineal title? The title was vacant. And, the top 2 rated fighters fought for the vacant title. Which were Maske and Hill.

The ring had Dariusz ranked #1 but Dariusz was the real lineal champion. The ring dropped the ball with that one. Virgil Hill beat Henry Maske for the lineal championship and then Dariusz beat Virgil. that is where he got the lineal claim. For example The ring has the Flyweight title as vacant. But, Daisuke Naito is the the real lineal champion. Hall and Harmon were not really good fighters. And, Dariusz was passed his prime when he lossed to Gonzalez. The same way Roy was passed his prime when he lossed to Calzaghe. I am not attacking Roy. But, he never won a real lineal championship in none of the 4 weightclasses he fought in. And, I never said Roy ducked this fighters. I just pointed out this were the top fighters at the time that we didn't see a prime Roy fight. And, again between 1992-1995. Hopkins was really green he was somewhat of a prospect. He hadn't even faced Glen Johnson at this time. And, I don't even think he even had won a title yet. After 1995 all this fighters moved up or just fell off. Out of curiousity, how did Maske get the lineal title?

Neither was Jones. He was as much a contender as Hopkins. I'm not sure if this, in some way, hurts Jones. He and Hopkins fought for Toney's title. Going forward, it was Hopkins who dominated the middleweight division - none of those guys you mentioned stuck around or were as relevant. Every fighter had fights that didn't happen for one reason or another. It's how their resumes stack up at the end of the day that we measure them by. And Jones' resume is underrated on these boards. Julian Jackson was not relevant at the time? Terry Norris was not relevant at the time? McCallum was not relevant at the time? the body snatcher was not relevant at the time? John David Jackson beating Reggie Johnson relevant at the time? But, Reggie was relevant years later at LHW? And, a very green Hopkins was relevant? At SMW Benn, Collins, Liles, Eubanks, McClellan was not relevant? McCallum was not relevant at MW or SMW at the time? But, was relevant years later at LHW? I don't know how you can say how these fighters were not relevant or that they didn't stick around when they were all the MW and/or SMW when Jones was there? I know fights don't happen but all these fighters were top level fighters that didn't happen. There are way more better names of the fights that didn't happen then the names on his resume. That is all I am saying.

The ring had Dariusz ranked #1 but Dariusz was the real lineal champion. The ring dropped the ball with that one. Virgil Hill beat Henry Maske for the lineal championship and then Dariusz beat Virgil. that is where he got the lineal claim. For example The ring has the Flyweight title as vacant. But, Daisuke Naito is the the real lineal champion. Hall and Harmon were not really good fighters. And, Dariusz was passed his prime when he lossed to Gonzalez. The same way Roy was passed his prime when he lossed to Calzaghe. I am not attacking Roy. But, he never won a real lineal championship in none of the 4 weightclasses he fought in. And, I never said Roy ducked this fighters. I just pointed out this were the top fighters at the time that we didn't see a prime Roy fight. And, again between 1992-1995. Hopkins was really green he was somewhat of a prospect. He hadn't even faced Glen Johnson at this time. And, I don't even think he even had won a title yet. After 1995 all this fighters moved up or just fell off. what about dariusz vs richard hall I? was that not prime dariusz? hate to use traingle theories, but dariusz had plenty of trouble with these 'crap' fighters jones disposed with ease

im just sayin, the ring had him ranked as number 1 and actually i meant like, richard hall, gonzalez(who beat him), derrick harmon and montell griffin and since you attackin roy how come hopkisn did'nt fight the likes of reggie johnson, gerald mcclellan and julian jackson? The ring had Dariusz ranked #1 but Dariusz was the real lineal champion. The ring dropped the ball with that one. Virgil Hill beat Henry Maske for the lineal championship and then Dariusz beat Virgil. that is where he got the lineal claim. For example The ring has the Flyweight title as vacant. But, Daisuke Naito is the the real lineal champion. Hall and Harmon were not really good fighters. And, Dariusz was passed his prime when he lossed to Gonzalez. The same way Roy was passed his prime when he lossed to Calzaghe. I am not attacking Roy. But, he never won a real lineal championship in none of the 4 weightclasses he fought in. And, I never said Roy ducked this fighters. I just pointed out this were the top fighters at the time that we didn't see a prime Roy fight. And, again between 1992-1995. Hopkins was really green he was somewhat of a prospect. He hadn't even faced Glen Johnson at this time. And, I don't even think he even had won a title yet. After 1995 all this fighters moved up or just fell off.

Hopkins was not the best MW of the time. Where you get that from? Julian Jackson, Reggie Johnson, Gerald McCllelan, and John David Jackson were all better than Hopkins at the time. Neither was Jones. He was as much a contender as Hopkins. I'm not sure if this, in some way, hurts Jones. He and Hopkins fought for Toney's title. Going forward, it was Hopkins who dominated the middleweight division - none of those guys you mentioned stuck around or were as relevant. Every fighter had fights that didn't happen for one reason or another. It's how their resumes stack up at the end of the day that we measure them by. And Jones' resume is underrated on these boards.

http://boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=324286 and in that thread i wrote... I had him at 100 for a top 100 i did but on reflection he sat comfortably in the 80-100 region. Hardly something to be ashamed off.

I don't remember all that except maybe a possible Dariusz fight. Can't see any of those beating Roy. Well is hard to say and you might be right. But, the thing is that it was never proven. The Hawk was a murderous power puncher. Had a legitimate 1 punch KO power. Who knows what would of happened if they fought. Gerald was Roy arch rival in the amateurs. He beat Roy and Gerald was a very good pro.Who knows what would of happened if they fought. So nobody knows cuz we didn't see it. But, those were all top level fighters in Roy weightclass at the time that we didn't see. Again I am not saying he ducked them but the fights never materialized.

Hopkins was not the best MW of the time. Where you get that from? Julian Jackson, Reggie Johnson, Gerald McCllelan, and John David Jackson were all better than Hopkins at the time. Dariusz was a punk but he was still the champ. And, you right about the leftovers part like Virgil Hill right? im just sayin, the ring had him ranked as number 1 and actually i meant like, richard hall, gonzalez(who beat him), derrick harmon and montell griffin and since you attackin roy how come hopkisn did'nt fight the likes of reggie johnson, gerald mcclellan and julian jackson?

hopkins was the best at middleweight at the time, fought him also dariusz was just a punk so roy decided to clean out the division and michal was left picking on roys leftovers Hopkins was not the best MW of the time. Where you get that from? Julian Jackson, Reggie Johnson, Gerald McCllelan, and John David Jackson were all better than Hopkins at the time. Dariusz was a punk but he was still the champ. And, you right about the leftovers part like Virgil Hill right?

Hopkins still managed to keep it competitive especially toward the later rounds and gave prime Roy his most difficult fight. Oh thats very true I agree. I thought Roy swept the first 4rds. And, I thought they swept the last 8rds. But, that does not take away from the fact that Hopkins was still green. He was not an all around fighter yet. Hopkins was a late bloomer where he didn't put everything together until like 1999.

I am not going to say Roy ducked fighters. But, he didnt fight Julian Jackson, John David Jackson, there was talks of him fight Terry Norris at a catchweight of 157 that never happened. He didnt' fight Eubanks, Benn, McCllelan, Collins, Liles, Daruisz. He didn't fight a prime Mike McCallum at MW or SMW. He finally fought a 40yr old bodysnatcher at LHW. I am not going to say he ducked. But, we did not see this fights against the best at the time materialize. We just saw James Toney. hopkins was the best at middleweight at the time, fought him also dariusz was just a punk so roy decided to clean out the division and michal was left picking on roys leftovers

Who Roy duck that was worth a damn? I am not going to say Roy ducked fighters. But, he didnt fight Julian Jackson, John David Jackson, there was talks of him fight Terry Norris at a catchweight of 157 that never happened. He didnt' fight Eubanks, Benn, McCllelan, Collins, Liles, Daruisz. He didn't fight a prime Mike McCallum at MW or SMW. He finally fought a 40yr old bodysnatcher at LHW. I am not going to say he ducked. But, we did not see this fights against the best at the time materialize. We just saw James Toney.

Hopkins was very green at this time though. He was not an all around fighter at the time. Hopkins was still learning his craft. Roy was the more experience guy of the 2 at the time. But, Toney was the man at the time. Toney was probably weak from making the weight. But, That is not Roy fault. So full credit to Roy. hopkins being green against roy jones is the biggest myth in their careers

That's how Calzaghe pretty much became an ATG around here. :dunno:Since when was Calzaghe ATG? RJJ is low 40's ATG, Calzaghe is mid 80's so not ATG, anything over 50 isn't a genuine ATG imo.

That's how Calzaghe pretty much became an ATG around here. :dunno: In a fight many thought he lost. Ah the stuff of legends. Almost losiing ( and losing in the eyes of some) to a 43 year old past prime fighter. Hopkins and Jones > Calzaghe. No one should even talk about this.