Should David Haye be pound for pound lister.

If Abraham gets passed Kessler, he's as good as named the winner in my opinion. Though, I see Ward as a live darkhorse. Kessler... I'm not that sure yet. After the Calzaghe loss, he KO'd all his opponents. Granted I do not really know much of those opponent, I'm on the fence if the Kessler mental state is still good or his opponents is just bad. I'm still wondering if he encounter adversity, how will he react. And yes, Ward is the darkhorse for me also.

9. Ivan Calderon. He's the smallest fighter on the list and he's done some pretty big things. That deserves some attention. Skills: Aside from Mayweather, he might be the best pure boxer on the planet. Fast, with OKAAAY power when he plants. He simply is always on the back foot and has a VERY low KO ratio. Great fundamentals, footwork and angles. Isn't boring for a defensive, light hitting, small guy either. Pretty fun to watch. Last Few Fights: Taking out the draw to Rodel Mayol, he's been good but not lucky. Three of his last four fights have been stopped due to huge gashes from headbutts. Nonetheless, he has wins over the solid Cazares, Mayol and Dieppa. Accomplishments: He's managed to become the TRUE champion in the two smallest divisions. He essentially cleaned up at 105, and has tried to get the best fights at 108, unsuccessfully. Nonetheless, wins over Cazares, Dieppa, Mayol and Daniel Reyes help make this a solid category. Upside: In this, he lacks. The smaller divisions make less money, and there's then less reason for the riskier fights as far as the fighters are concerned. Nonetheless, a fun fight with Sosa or Viloria is still a possibility. What Have His Opponents Done: Not much. With the smaller weight guys, it's hard to lose and come back to the top. He can't be faulted too much for this. I'm a pinoy but was glad that he got the not over Mayol. IMO, Mayol's unorthodox style (and length ) is a nightmare for Calderon but he, even though uncomfortable, somehow managed to neutralize it. This certainly speaks volumes of his skill. Like you, I believe Sosa or Viloria is a much more intriguing fight.

I favor him to become the winner of the super 6 tourney. I do not really expect a pavlik/strum fight against him. If it happens, I favor him to win against those two. I was hoping a Pavlik fight back then when Pavlik was still one of my faves and a P4P fighter. Not now ... simply because I dislike the antics of Pavlik now especially with the PWill match. This is a huge PR mistake and I certainly doubt that Staph infection. Oh well. Also, I'm hoping he would KO Froch ( I somehow dislike Froch but could not really point out why ) in S6 Tourney. :D. IF there is anyone capable on doing this to Froch, AA is the man. If Abraham gets passed Kessler, he's as good as named the winner in my opinion. Though, I see Ward as a live darkhorse.

10. Arthur Abraham. He makes the list because though he hasn't done much world wide, he definitely has done some things. Aswell as having a solid upside. Skills: A VERY hard puncher from 160 to 168. Solid defense, though he can orget to counter. Good fundamentals. Not as straight up as SOME European fighters can be. Awkward style, but a style he has mastered. Chin like a brick wall. Decent speed. Last Few Fights: Essentially, he's broke through in his last few fights. With a win over the former king at 160 in Jermain Taylor. If you discount a few mandatories and easy money fights, he's also beat the tough Raul Marquez and Edison Miranda in a rematch of a helacious fight. Accomplishments: Due to the fact that Sturm and Pavlik seemed uninterested in fighting him, he's done less than he could have. Nonetheless, he has remained undefeated, cleaned out almost all of Germany and has beaten Miranda twice, Marquez, Taylor and a few other only decent fighters. Upside: Could be really bad or really good. No true in between. He's involved in the Super 6 tourney. If he loses, he'll be locked out of key fights for a few years, unless he challenges Bute/Andrade winner. However, he's advanced with a win so that looks promising. Another win and the sky could really be the limit. If he wins the whole thing, he becomes a force in the weight classes from 168 to 175. Ad he'd still likely be undefeated. What Have His Opponents Done: Not a whole lot of anything. Making this his weakest category. Nonetheless, he still has a lot of prime left it would seem. I favor him to become the winner of the super 6 tourney. I do not really expect a pavlik/strum fight against him. If it happens, I favor him to win against those two. I was hoping a Pavlik fight back then when Pavlik was still one of my faves and a P4P fighter. Not now ... simply because I dislike the antics of Pavlik now especially with the PWill match. This is a huge PR mistake and I certainly doubt that Staph infection. Oh well. Also, I'm hoping he would KO Froch ( I somehow dislike Froch but could not really point out why ) in S6 Tourney. :D. IF there is anyone capable on doing this to Froch, AA is the man.

haye on the p4p list cause he beat the heavyweight version of baldomir? i don't think so.....oh wait a minute floyd is number 2 so yea he should be on there for sure. if he can lure pavlik up to heavyweight that will solidify his p4p status. if you had your way the p4p list would never have a european fighter on their,which makes your opinion null and void

haye on the p4p list cause he beat the heavyweight version of baldomir? i don't think so.....oh wait a minute floyd is number 2 so yea he should be on there for sure. if he can lure pavlik up to heavyweight that will solidify his p4p status.

Great. For someone with Calderon's as username, I though you would have him a little higher on the list. Personally, have him at 7. Pretty much agree on your assessment. As for the list, I'm not that sure on AA (and yes, I'd prefer Pwill over him ) and Izzy (mainly due to inactivity ). Thanks you for the time to post all this. Thanks for your appreciation. My last name is actually Calderon, so I have no reason to rank him higher off that. He's just a great technician.

So, in short, my list is as follows...... 1. Manny Pacquiao 2. Floyd Mayweather 3. Bernard Hopkins 4. Shane Mosley 5. Juan Manuel Marquez 6. Miguel Cotto 7. Israel Vazquez 8. Chad Dawson 9. Ival Calderon 10. Arthur Abraham. If someone wanted to replace say Abraham with Paul Williams. I would understand. However, Abraham is undefeated, has more of an opportunity in front of him and has a bigger following to allow his skills to be showcased more thoroughly. Therefore, I give him the nod. I can see someone still disagree, and I understand. Great. For someone with Calderon's as username, I though you would have him a little higher on the list. Personally, have him at 7. Pretty much agree on your assessment. As for the list, I'm not that sure on AA (and yes, I'd prefer Pwill over him ) and Izzy (mainly due to inactivity ). Thanks you for the time to post all this.

no not yet id have him in the top 15 p4p though,just due too his accomplisments

P4P with his resume give me a ****ing break. Also i don't understand all the undue credit he's getting on account of his size, utter stupidity. Boytsov, Chagaev, Ibragimov, Povetkin, Chambers, Bakhtov, Adamek (perhaps) are all heavyweight who Haye is naturally bigger than. wtf is the big deal? All it shows is that he should have been fighting at Heavyweight from the start.

So, in short, my list is as follows...... 1. Manny Pacquiao 2. Floyd Mayweather 3. Bernard Hopkins 4. Shane Mosley 5. Juan Manuel Marquez 6. Miguel Cotto 7. Israel Vazquez 8. Chad Dawson 9. Ival Calderon 10. Arthur Abraham. If someone wanted to replace say Abraham with Paul Williams. I would understand. However, Abraham is undefeated, has more of an opportunity in front of him and has a bigger following to allow his skills to be showcased more thoroughly. Therefore, I give him the nod. I can see someone still disagree, and I understand.

10. Arthur Abraham. He makes the list because though he hasn't done much world wide, he definitely has done some things. Aswell as having a solid upside. Skills: A VERY hard puncher from 160 to 168. Solid defense, though he can orget to counter. Good fundamentals. Not as straight up as SOME European fighters can be. Awkward style, but a style he has mastered. Chin like a brick wall. Decent speed. Last Few Fights: Essentially, he's broke through in his last few fights. With a win over the former king at 160 in Jermain Taylor. If you discount a few mandatories and easy money fights, he's also beat the tough Raul Marquez and Edison Miranda in a rematch of a helacious fight. Accomplishments: Due to the fact that Sturm and Pavlik seemed uninterested in fighting him, he's done less than he could have. Nonetheless, he has remained undefeated, cleaned out almost all of Germany and has beaten Miranda twice, Marquez, Taylor and a few other only decent fighters. Upside: Could be really bad or really good. No true in between. He's involved in the Super 6 tourney. If he loses, he'll be locked out of key fights for a few years, unless he challenges Bute/Andrade winner. However, he's advanced with a win so that looks promising. Another win and the sky could really be the limit. If he wins the whole thing, he becomes a force in the weight classes from 168 to 175. Ad he'd still likely be undefeated. What Have His Opponents Done: Not a whole lot of anything. Making this his weakest category. Nonetheless, he still has a lot of prime left it would seem.

9. Ivan Calderon. He's the smallest fighter on the list and he's done some pretty big things. That deserves some attention. Skills: Aside from Mayweather, he might be the best pure boxer on the planet. Fast, with OKAAAY power when he plants. He simply is always on the back foot and has a VERY low KO ratio. Great fundamentals, footwork and angles. Isn't boring for a defensive, light hitting, small guy either. Pretty fun to watch. Last Few Fights: Taking out the draw to Rodel Mayol, he's been good but not lucky. Three of his last four fights have been stopped due to huge gashes from headbutts. Nonetheless, he has wins over the solid Cazares, Mayol and Dieppa. Accomplishments: He's managed to become the TRUE champion in the two smallest divisions. He essentially cleaned up at 105, and has tried to get the best fights at 108, unsuccessfully. Nonetheless, wins over Cazares, Dieppa, Mayol and Daniel Reyes help make this a solid category. Upside: In this, he lacks. The smaller divisions make less money, and there's then less reason for the riskier fights as far as the fighters are concerned. Nonetheless, a fun fight with Sosa or Viloria is still a possibility. What Have His Opponents Done: Not much. With the smaller weight guys, it's hard to lose and come back to the top. He can't be faulted too much for this.

think about it stoppage, he did'nt test positive for roids, but he was listed as a patient at Applied Pharmacy Services which is rumored to handing steroids to athletes, he was a smart man putting in only a portion fo his name(''fields'') but not smart enough when the adress and phone number led straight to him I didn't deny his steroid use. Neither did I admit his steroid use. Since there's no proof, I can't make claims, as if they're legitimate. I said that Valuev is one of the slowest and technically bad champions I've ever seen. Haye beat him by about the same amount of rounds, as Holyfield did. Holyfield was 46.

think about it stoppage, he did'nt test positive for roids, but he was listed as a patient at Applied Pharmacy Services which is rumored to handing steroids to athletes, he was a smart man putting in only a portion fo his name(''fields'') but not smart enough when the adress and phone number led straight to him

8. Chad Dawson. He's gotten all the old timers out of the way, barring Hopkins and he's managed to remain undefeated while doing it. Also, the top of his championless division is where he rests. Skills: If he didn't have a knack for taking a round or two off, and losing speed in tougher fights, it'd be hard to find many flaws. He's a solid enough puncher. Quickest hands in his division, and CAN take a decent punch. Footwork and angles help him allude punches, as does his solid defense. Last Few Fights: He's beaten up the old guys, but in his division, it was needed. He needed to erase the doubt that would inevitably loom if he avoided these fights. All that remains is Hopkins after beating both Tarver and Johnson convincingly, each time better than the last. Though, less exciting, more convincingly. Accomplishments: Solid amateur experience. Undefeated as a pro. At 175, he has about three solid names to choose from, but he had to take care of the older business. Before Adamek moved up, he gave hi his sole loss. Has wins over Adamek, Tarver, Johnson and has lost maybe a total of 15 rounds in all five of those fights. Very solid for a young career. Upside: The sky could be the limit for this kid. If he were able to manifest some wit in his interviews, he could definitely benefit. Aside from that, he has a division he now needs to clean up. A possible showdown with Hall Of Famer Hopkins looms. If not, Cloud and Pascal could net him some more noteriety. What Have His Opponents Done: Adamek could fill this category alone. Johnson really hasn't faded, so the wins are solid. Tarver has, and didn't make much noise in between fights, so he's lost. But Adamek has moved up, conquered and has even made his entrance into the biggest division of them all. Next, 9.

well, you could make an argument if you could find me proof of 46 year olds competing wth youngsters at a high level and being as big and ripped as holyfield there are ways of keeping steroid abuse under the rather, and dont forget evander has been caught before High level? Valuev is one of the slowest and technically bad champions I've ever seen. And what youngster? Valuev was 35.

After David Haye became only the second man ever to beat Valuev should he be considered a pound for pounder? But not just for the boxing skills he demonstrated against 'the beast from the east', but for his record and now his title. I mean he is the heavyweight champion of the world, the former undisputed cruiserweight champion of the world, he is expecitionally fast, has a mean KO punch with both fists and is agile and in supreme condition. So if you look at 'Ring' magazines p4p list, should he be there because i believe he is better than Hopkins for a start and he is at number 3, but can we really place him there or not? I think we can, especially if he defeats John Ruiz with comfort as i am expecting him too do. Omigod, you're an idiot.

Is there proof of this besides assumptions? well, you could make an argument if you could find me proof of 46 year olds competing wth youngsters at a high level and being as big and ripped as holyfield there are ways of keeping steroid abuse under the rather, and dont forget evander has been caught before

7. Israel Vazquez. Though, he might be on the slide, he still has a lot going for him, in terms of this ranking making sense. Skills: Great chin with a matching heart. Speed isn't explosive but is solid enough. Power can change virtually any fight around. Solid fundamentals and is always sticking to his gameplan. Last Few Fights: To put it mildly, his last few fights have been legendary. Aside from a pick me up fight in his most recent outing, he KO'd previously ranked Rafael Marquez to avenge an earlier defeat. He's gone flawless in his last three. All stoppages, as well. Currently, testing 126, instead of 122. Accomplishments: Has now been the TRUE champion at 122, twice and has solid wins over Marquez, Jhonny Gonzalez, Ivan Hernandez and Oscar Larrios. He's also been in TWO great trilogies, while most can't boast one. Upside: This doesn't look good for Vazquez. Though his first outing at 126 could have been attributed to rust, he might just be reaching that point. A fourth fight with Marquez looms, but it could be his final big payday. What Have His Opponents Done: Remarkable, he took the better of his series with Marquez, but Marquez looks to be in the better condition, currently. Larios has made some noise and Jhonny has gone on a few win streaks. Otherwise, this category is light for him. Next, 8.