Revisionist History-Jermain Taylor

well yeah but he fought those 147-154 lbers at 160 too so using your faulty logic of calling them smaller guys when they weighed the same for the fight, than b-hop was a bigger guy b/c after the fight he jumped 2 divisions also the ouma and spinks fight were after b-hop...he only fought real mw's before then and fought numerous fights above the 160 lb limit, was marquez not a real mw? was joppy not a real mw? your arguments are baseless Wow this post is scary. Marquez was not a real middleweight. He had one eye on retirement going into the Taylor fight and was a career junior middleweight (a battered one, at that). Joppy was a middleweight, but hadn't fought in a year (when Bernard Hopkins beat the crap outta him) nor had he won a fight in more than two years. He fought Taylor accordingly, which is to say he didn't put up a fight at all. He didn't face live MW opposition until he challenged for/was given the MW title. That's why people claim he was rushed - he went from facing garbage to facing the very best in the world (Hopkins 2x and Wright). I don't look at it as being rushed, more so than ridiculously protected on the way up and waiting for the most opportune time to challenge for the title.

well yeah but he fought those 147-154 lbers at 160 too so using your faulty logic of calling them smaller guys when they weighed the same for the fight, than b-hop was a bigger guy b/c after the fight he jumped 2 divisions also the ouma and spinks fight were after b-hop...he only fought real mw's before then and fought numerous fights above the 160 lb limit, was marquez not a real mw? was joppy not a real mw? your arguments are baseless

ya calzaghe-taylor would have been very interesting had it happened at that time b/c calzaghe doesn't really have the power to scare taylor in the later rounds...i think the fight woulda gone the distance with taylor winning a close decision for landing the harder shots altho calzaghe mighta outlanded him slightly also, who thinks the pavlik-taylor fight should have been stopped in that 2nd round? i know i did when i was watching it live but now i'm glad it wasn't b/c it would have robbed pavlik who later deservedly won...pavlik was dead on his feet, getting hit with huge shots with his hands down, he was defenseless and for 10 seconds i'm sayin to myself the refs gotta stop this

i think that's a silly argument, i mean how long was he going to wait? till he was 30...i think he struggled after he got cut against ouma and no one looks good against spinks...i'd say 2 straight wins over b-hop after his 20 straight defenses and a draw against winky who's one of the most underrated fighters in recent history proves he was ready for the big stage...also, if your going to say he beat 154 lbers, than you also gotta say he beat 175 lbers b/c b-hop immediately jumped up to light heavy after their 2 fights so it's not like he only beat small guys JT needed to atleast fight real MWs before he fought Bhop. JT was backing up against Ouma... he had no business doing that. Hopkins ruined JT's confidence. Spinks moved up from 147 lbs... the lineal MW champ should be able to stomp the former lineal WW champ. you can't say JT beat 175 lbers, because Hopkins fought JT at MW not lt HW. that's silly. JT feasted on smaller guys.. that is fact.

How about I don't imagine nonesense. IMO Taylor should have 7 losses next to his name, not 4.

now that I think about......pull has a point.....JT was kinda rushed if you REALLY REALLY look at it!!......they GAVE him the MW title IMO......as far as that 1st fight with Kell......if that was RIGHTFULLY stopped in the 2nd then JT's confidence wouldn't be dented as it is now!!.....I think he would've fought Roy next.......that would've been kinda interesting!!

JT was rushed. he feasted on 154 lbers and was rushed to a title shot against Bhop. even after escaping with the lineal title, he was never the same... unlike before when he was beating 154 lbers, JT began to struggle with 154 lbers like ouma and spinks (who used to be a 147 lber). finally JT was forced to fight pavlik and got KTFO. that is JT's real history. i think that's a silly argument, i mean how long was he going to wait? till he was 30...i think he struggled after he got cut against ouma and no one looks good against spinks...i'd say 2 straight wins over b-hop after his 20 straight defenses and a draw against winky who's one of the most underrated fighters in recent history proves he was ready for the big stage...also, if your going to say he beat 154 lbers, than you also gotta say he beat 175 lbers b/c b-hop immediately jumped up to light heavy after their 2 fights so it's not like he only beat small guys

JT was rushed. he feasted on 154 lbers and was rushed to a title shot against Bhop. even after escaping with the lineal title, he was never the same... unlike before when he was beating 154 lbers, JT began to struggle with 154 lbers like ouma and spinks (who used to be a 147 lber). finally JT was forced to fight pavlik and got KTFO. that is JT's real history.

Given that Calzaghe-Kessler was what six weeks later... I'd have to imagine that HBO would've pushed for a Calzaghe-Taylor fight some time in 2008, rather than Joe bolting to light heavyweight so soon thereafter. Calzaghe-Pavlik never materialized for two reasons: 1) Pavlik was obligated to a mandatory rematch with Taylor 2) There was no way Arum wasn't going to try to steal one HBO-sized payday for Pavlik (read: the Gary Lockett fight) before moving on to bigger game like Calzaghe Taylor wouldn't have been obligated to a rematch. However, his prior run (disinteresting defenses against Spinks and Ouma) and dwindling popularity wouldn't have left him with as much room to screw the pooch; therefore his options would've been limited. If not Calzaghe, then perhaps a renewed interest in Taylor-Roy Jones, who was a few months away from his money grab against Trinidad. From there, the winner would've undoubtedly fought Calzaghe. A Froch fight might've still happened if Taylor won, since he'd have won the title(s) from Joe, while Froch was creeping up on mando status. But you'd still have to take into consideration his inability to finish a fight strong. If an Abraham fight materialized, it would've been at 168. The first Pavlik fight was always going to be Taylor's last at 160. It's a legit question to ask, since it really would've altered the course of recent history in three weight classes.

let's not forget jermain was 6-0-1 in 12 rd fights be4 this fight and 1-3 in 12 rd fights afterwards

jermain went 17 fights be4 a title shot and 24 before a major title shot at age 27, i wouldn't say he was rushed, he seems unsure of himself...he's the most jittery fighter i've ever seen, so much wasted motion which tires him out as the fight goes along...i think it's more mental than physical, jermain's in tip top shape

ya it was a hypothetical question, but playing out a hypothetical is a sort of revisionist history, but does anyone think he could of beat abraham at 160 while still undefeated? JT would've lost to AA at 160, but I don't see that fight happening because AA would not fight JT in American and JT would insist on America if he was still the champ. i think he definitely beats froch at 168 and becomes a 2-class title winner and who knows from there...i think the loss to pavlik ended taylor and if he wins that 2nd round ko his career would be looking a lot different right about now... no he wouldn't. JT was brought up all wrong and he was rushed. JT is just an athletic 4-6 round boxer. if you take him into deep waters, you can beat him. he is that, was that, and will always be that. how come no one every comes to winky's defense?? he clearly beat jermain imo while the b-hop fights were extremely close winky gave up the last couple of rounds by running.

His career would've been a lot different. Just imagine..

ya it was a hypothetical question, but playing out a hypothetical is a sort of revisionist history, but does anyone think he could of beat abraham at 160 while still undefeated? i think he definitely beats froch at 168 and becomes a 2-class title winner and who knows from there...i think the loss to pavlik ended taylor and if he wins that 2nd round ko his career would be looking a lot different right about now...o and btw i had taylor winning both hopkins fights, how come no one every comes to winky's defense?? he clearly beat jermain imo while the b-hop fights were extremely close

^^Yep. But to answer the TS question, I think he was planning on moving up to 168 anyway. So after Pavlik there was absolutely no one left at 160 other than Arthur Abraham. So either he could have fought AA at 160 right after Pavlik (I think he would have been KO'd) or he would have moved up immediately to 168, and there he could have had more options. Maybe Kessler, I dunno. i don't think he would have lost to the KING at 160 or 168 if he hadn't been KOed by pavlik. That loss really messed him mentally. and he ain't been the same...there hasn't been much bad intentions from him since then. Just think, he was beat pavlik the 1st fight and gassed. He was beeating Froch and gassed. That takes a toll on you mentally I think. The whole fight he worried about his body betraying him and gassing out. You can't win at the highest levels focusing on not getting tired instead of taking out your opponent. If beats pavlik the 1st time, his career would still be blooming!

I'm interested to see what you guys think jermain taylor's career might have looked like had he won the first fight with pavlik by 2nd round KO. That was a very brutal round and pavlik took an absolute beating. I estimate 75% of the referees in boxing would have stopped that fight but thankfully the referee let them keep going, and pavlik pulled it out in 7. But, what if there was a different referee and the fight was stopped? Pavlik probably wouldn't have gotten a rematch and jermain might still be dominating the middleweight division. What do you guys think would have happened? that's not revisionist history... revisionist history is saying something like "JT dominated hopkins in both fights". that's more of a "what if" / hypothetical question.