Bruce Lee the Unbeatable

Joe Lewis on his falling out with Bruce Lee : Over the years, I've heard reports of various individuals claiming that they saw Bruce and I spar. This is nonsense beyond belief. Do these people feel more important when they manufacture these claims, just to draw attention to the fact that they knew Bruce or that they knew me? Let's keep this one simple. I will repeat what I have always said from the beginning. The only person to ever observe Bruce Lee teaching me at one of my lessons was Ted Wong. My lessons were private. No big deal, that's just the way it happened. Linda Lee was always in the house where Bruce and I were working together, but she never took an interest in coming out and observing our lessons. Over the years, I've heard some wild stories. The guy who used to make equipment for Bruce Lee (I won't use his name) reported that he saw Bruce Lee and I sparring down at the Chinatown Dojo. I've heard other reports of people claiming they saw Bruce Lee beat the hell out of me. If the writers, who submit these rumors to be published, would simply have the courtesy or respect to interview me before they submitted their manuscripts, none of this nonsense would have started in the first place. There is no big deal here; there is no mystery. Many of my instructors over the years engaged in sparring sessions with me. The only two instructors in my chain of command who ever sparred with me were John Korab, who taught me to spar in Okinawa, and Joey Orbillo, who taught me how to box. They both beat the hell out of me, but today, there is nothing to hide. I have simply never sparred any of my other instructors. Anyone who reports that they saw me and Bruce Lee sparring is simply lying. No one ever observed my lessons with Bruce Lee in the first place, and secondly, for anyone to misinterpret a sparring drill out of context has to be an uninformed idiot. Any uninformed observer knows the difference between sparring as opposed to an academic drill. The capper to the demise of our relationship was equally stupid. At the 1969 International Karate Championships, I went out on stage that night in Long Beach, Ca. and conquered the most coveted title in karate at that time. Bruce Lee was sitting ringside, and if I remember, he was sitting next to my wife, who destroyed our relationship. As I walked out on stage that night, for the grand championship final match, I was simply in a zone, it was my time. Having been disqualified the year before and ripped off the year before that, I won. In past years, whenever I went up on stage to fight for any title, never had any announcer broadcast what my style was or who my instructor was. It was usually what was your name and what city were you from. On a number of past occasions, such as when I won the 1968 United States National Championship for the second time of four consecutive wins, I brought Bruce Lee up on stage, actually for the third consecutive win. Up on stage Bruce Lee asked me to bring John Korab up to recognize him as the person who taught me how to fight. Bruce Lee never called Jeet Kune Do a style to me. He never seemed to be bothered by me giving credit to my past instructors for what they had given me. That night, his context must have been different. When I walked out on stage for the final match, the announcer broadcast to the audience that my style was Okinawa-Te and that my instructor was John Korab. Being in my zone, preparing for the beginning of the match, I had no recollection upon hearing the announcer say that about me. Well, unfortunately for me, Bruce Lee hit the roof. He thought that I had set that up for the announcer to make that broadcast as a slap in his face. You have to understand Bruce Lee's context in that moment. Here, your top student is winning the most coveted title in all martial arts' history and you feel that he is breaching all respect for you as his mentor by having the announcer avoid giving you credit for his success. Strangely enough, in my entire career, that was the only time ever an announcer broadcast to the audience who my instructor was or what my style was. It's amazing the damage to a healthy friendship that others can cause, such as uninformed writers, wives, or tournament announcers.

There must be better footage of wall in a full contact match. Here it is, Bob Wall at his best: What do you think of Tommy Carutthers?

There must be better footage of wall in a full contact match. But Bob was a respected champ. Show me lebel then against savage. Lebel didnt look great and neither did savage. Bruce was tested by many others as well, youd likely put down. But then you try praise everyone else, that Lee didnt fight. Jesse Glover was very good. He had a good judo record. All the people giving Lee credit are names. The whos who. So you can just put the whos who down. Isnt Stones opinion worth anything.? Look how high esteem bruce is held amonst his peers and the martial arts world. How can you say he was untested? This guy can beat Bob Wall and Bruce Lee: I'm done with this topic, if you want to talk about some other aspect of Bruce's life i'm down.

The great Bob Wall: Because Bruce Lee beat this guy, he was tested as a fighter?:no: There must be better footage of wall in a full contact match. But Bob was a respected champ. Show me lebel then against savage. Lebel didnt look great and neither did savage. Bruce was tested by many others as well, youd likely put down. But then you try praise everyone else, that Lee didnt fight. Jesse Glover was very good. He had a good judo record. All the people giving Lee credit are names. The whos who. So you can just put the whos who down. Isnt Stones opinion worth anything.? Look how high esteem bruce is held amonst his peers and the martial arts world. How can you say he was untested?

Go away silver like you promised. Only kidding. So the interview i read with Joe Lewis where he said Stone told him hes got to meet a guy called bruce lee who was phenomenal is not real then? I guess you never read it did you? You are going to ask me to find if for you are you? I could give you food recipes that i know because i read them but i wouldnt know exactly what book or magazine i got them from as well. But something like Stone saying bruce was phenomenal i would know about. Joe Lewis said he was suprised as well because he never heard Stone say that about anyone. You are acting too davis millerish. Bob was lying when he spoke to Tan. It was the fighter in him that made him lie. But he had to eventually tell the truth. He was telling the truth when he said bruce beat him.

The great Bob Wall: Because Bruce Lee beat this guy, he was tested as a fighter?:no:

My opinion is from what ive read. Ive read Bob Wall say bruce beat him. Ive heard anecdotes of people witnessing Bruce toying with Bob during sparring sessions. So when Bob says he could beat bruce, i get the feeling it is a hope and dream. When bob realized people were laughing at him, he knew he couldnt get away with such rubbish. You are hardly goint to come to the conclusion you can beat someone after they bash you up in sparring are you? If i sparred with mike tyson and he was putting the hurt on me. I would hardly come to the conclusion i could beat Tyson if it were for real and in a streefight though am i? You asked me why perhaps Bruce sparred with Bob and why not Joe. Only Bruce could honestly tell us that. But ive given a good reason that i concluded myself, without having to read a book to conclude. Bruces job was as a trainer to make Joe a better fighter. He did that. Bruce didnt have it on his training timetable for sparring with Joe. He had Joe busy with other stuff. Mike Stone told Joe Lewis, bruce lee was phenomenal. Bruce had nothing to prove to Joe. You say Bruce was untested as a fighter, basically copying what Davis Miller says word for word. But dont back that up]. Bruce who was 140lb beat Bob Wall who was a heavyweight and you say Bruce wasnt tested. Do i need to say anything else? Didnt Bob tell Lebel, Bruce blew him away during sparring? He didnt fight absolutely everyone. But did Gene fight Bob? Did Gene fight Joe Lewis. Am i supposed to kiss Lebels ass just because he dared get in the ring with milo savage? And here we go again, you've read stuff, but don't say were you read them from.How do you know the sources are reliable? If they are from a book that's means the author has to make sure they are accurate, otherwise they may face a libel suit of some kind. For example Bruce Thomas was going to get sued by Glover, for attributing quotes to Glover which Glover didn't say. Joe Lewis criticized Davis Miller, for some of the things he said in the Tao of Bruce Lee. If the stuff you read are not from books, where are they form the internet? Some gossip in a forum? Who takes responsibility for the accuracy or better yet the inaccuracy of them? No one. In order to understand Bruce Lee's relationship with Lewis you would have to read a book about it, otherwise you don't know what you are talking about.Mike Stone never said Bruce Lee was phenomenal, Stone would never say that about anyone. If you want Stone's opinion of Bruce you would have to read Joe Lewis's book. Which I take it you haven't read. Bruce lee was untested as a fighter. What was his fight record? Who did he fight worth mentioning? How was he tested? Because he dominated Wall in a sparring match. What about all the other people who have beat Wall in competitions or sparring matches are they all great unbeatable fighters also? How about you post some links so we can watch Wall fighting. Ive also noticed the way you never talk about that George Tan clip, were Tan talks about Wall. Wall says he could take Lee in a fight.You can't have it both ways, either Wall is a reliable source or his not. Wall thought people were laughing at him so he changed his mind? Here we go again, it was a private interview between Wall and Tan. If you want to know what Bob really thinks about Bruce go read the penthouse article, or watch the Tan clip. Fighting and sparring are not the same thing. If I sparred with Tyson, I most probably would be able to walk away with a couple of bruises. If me and Tyson fought for real, I most probably would end up dead or in the hospital if im lucky. George Tan says that, "He believed he could beat anyone, but never fought anyone." Why is that good enough for Tan but not you? Tyson, Foreman,Liston, Lewis etc, walk through Bob Wall and anyone else Bruce sparred with or fought with ease. Does that now mean these guys are great fighters, unbeatable fighters? Of course not Gene beats Bob in a fight. Joe Lewis less certain, Lewis also knows grappling, so he could defend against takedowns something Wall could not. Should you kiss Lebells ass for fighting Savage? Why not, it shows he was willing to put it on the line. Lewis stepped in the ring with Bonecrusher Smith and Leon Spinks. They should be applauded for taking such risks. You knock Miller, but he stepped in the ring with Ali.

Bruce Lee is unbeatable, but what does that have to do with boxing?

good movie action fight scenes not realistic,if bruce,seagal,vandamme,li,norris,dolph,walked into a studio filled with 20 yoga students they would get swarmed and get their lights punched out and thrown head first by the collar of their shirts out the door onto the sidewalk:boxing: yeah man, no one can beat dhalism... he will do the yoga punch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_kStJ-uvyA

Due to the fact that there is no footage of Bruce fighting, thats means your opinion of him has to based on what you have read. I have asked you what you have read and you never answer. You cite Bob Wall but I have already shown to you that he is not a credible source. If you watch that George Tan clip, Tan talks of how Wall said he could take Bruce in a fight. If you read the Penthouse article I posted a link to you will see, what Wall really thought about Bruce. I have read about Bruce, I can quote to you from the books that I read, everything from The Tao of Bruce Lee to Fighting Spirit by Bruce Thomas. I can post you links to online interviews, which I have done. You cite opinions which sound like folklore to me, and then refuse to tell me where you have read it. What good is that? If you have an opinion of why Bruce didn't spar with Joe it has to be based on something. Some interview with a close friend or something. How can we have a debate when you refuse to give some kind of evidence to back up your claims? As for the personnal insults, that just shows how weak your arguement is. Im not a honourable person because I dont share your thoughts on Bruce? What kind of judgement is that? So I dont share your opinion on Bruce, so what. How does that affect you, really? I: My opinion is from what ive read. Ive read Bob Wall say bruce beat him. Ive heard anecdotes of people witnessing Bruce toying with Bob during sparring sessions. So when Bob says he could beat bruce, i get the feeling it is a hope and dream. When bob realized people were laughing at him, he knew he couldnt get away with such rubbish. You are hardly goint to come to the conclusion you can beat someone after they bash you up in sparring are you? If i sparred with mike tyson and he was putting the hurt on me. I would hardly come to the conclusion i could beat Tyson if it were for real and in a streefight though am i? You asked me why perhaps Bruce sparred with Bob and why not Joe. Only Bruce could honestly tell us that. But ive given a good reason that i concluded myself, without having to read a book to conclude. Bruces job was as a trainer to make Joe a better fighter. He did that. Bruce didnt have it on his training timetable for sparring with Joe. He had Joe busy with other stuff. Mike Stone told Joe Lewis, bruce lee was phenomenal. Bruce had nothing to prove to Joe. You say Bruce was untested as a fighter, basically copying what Davis Miller says word for word. But dont back that up. Bruce who was 140lb beat Bob Wall who was a heavyweight and you say Bruce wasnt tested. Do i need to say anything else? Didnt Bob tell Lebel, Bruce blew him away during sparring? He didnt fight absolutely everyone. But did Gene fight Bob? Did Gene fight Joe Lewis. Am i supposed to kiss Lebels ass just because he dared get in the ring with milo savage?

So Lebel dont mind shit stirring to guys like Davis Miller of all people, in the hope Davis spreads his thoughts. Well, Lebel didnt do that when Lee was alive. Because he wouldnt want what he secretly thought getting to back to bruce. Bruce had a short temper, and hed take offence to Lebel talking like that about him, behind his back. Face it, Lebel had the chance to talk when Lee was alive and chose not to. So get out of here with dont rate him as a figher talk. You may be impressed with posthumous cheapshots, but dont expect others with higher standards of morality to be. This is getting us nowhere, in case you didnt notice about 5+ pages back I was ready to move on to other things, which is why I posted links to tracking the dragon and started to talk about John Little. Opinions have to be based on something, some information of some kind. I read about boxing and watch boxing so I can give you my opinion on some fighters. Old skool fighters, I dont know much about, so I have no opinion of them. For example. It is my belief that a prime Tyson could beat Audlley Harrison. What is my opinion based on? Watching footage of Tyson and Audley, watching documentaries about Tyson and reading about him. Due to the fact that there is no footage of Bruce fighting, thats means your opinion of him has to based on what you have read. I have asked you what you have read and you never answer. You cite Bob Wall but I have already shown to you that he is not a credible source. If you watch that George Tan clip, Tan talks of how Wall said he could take Bruce in a fight. If you read the Penthouse article I posted a link to you will see, what Wall really thought about Bruce. I have read about Bruce, I can quote to you from the books that I read, everything from The Tao of Bruce Lee to Fighting Spirit by Bruce Thomas. I can post you links to online interviews, which I have done. You cite opinions which sound like folklore to me, and then refuse to tell me where you have read it. What good is that? If you have an opinion of why Bruce didn't spar with Joe it has to be based on something. Some interview with a close friend or something. How can we have a debate when you refuse to give some kind of evidence to back up your claims? As for the personnal insults, that just shows how weak your arguement is. Im not a honourable person because I dont share your thoughts on Bruce? What kind of judgement is that? So I dont share your opinion on Bruce, so what. How does that affect you, really? I like Mayweather, alot of people here don't, does that bother me? Of course not, why should it? Do I judge or condemned anyone who disagrees with me about it? Of course not. So im going to leave this thread and go elsewhere,because all we are doing is going around in circles.:439:

So Lebel dont mind shit stirring to guys like Davis Miller of all people, in the hope Davis spreads his thoughts. Well, Lebel didnt do that when Lee was alive. Because he wouldnt want what he secretly thought getting to back to bruce. Bruce had a short temper, and hed take offence to Lebel talking like that about him, behind his back. Face it, Lebel had the chance to talk when Lee was alive and chose not to. So get out of here with dont rate him as a figher talk. You may be impressed with posthumous cheapshots, but dont expect others with higher standards of morality to be.

Maybe Davis Miller was reading in between the lines of what Lebell said. Lebell knew Bruce, you did not, Joe Lewis knew Bruce, you did not. They knew the man, while you are relying on second hand sources. Gene LeBell is not going to rate Bruce as a fighter, because Bruce was untested as a fighter.Bruce thought he could beat LeBell? According to who, what book have you read that covers this? You are giving me a lot of opionions, but no facts. Excuse me! You are the asking my opinions! You are the one asking why Bruce Lee sparred with Bob Wall and not Joe Lewis? You said it was because Bruce knew he could beat Bob, but not Joe? No, i would say he was confident of beating Bob and JOe. You asked the question so i gave an opinion. And then you ask me where i get my info, as if ive got a secret book. Well i come to my conclusion by thinking with my brain god gave me, and i conclude what i conclude. If you took the time to think, you may also be able to conclude it. Its not hard. But because like davis miller youu dont want to think and conclude you asked me my opinion and i gave it. You could easily have concluded why Bruce might not have sparred with Joe, without having to ask me. Again Gene is not going to rate bruce as a fighter, because he was untested as a fighter? What does this mean? Tell me! How come Bob Wall rate Lee as a fighter? Why can Demile, and Jesse Glover rate bruce as a fighter and Lebel cant. Lebel is being stubborn thats why. Now you are asking how i know bruce thought he could beat lebel? And you are asking what book i read again? Actually i take back what i said about you. You arent honourable. Politer than many ive spoken to, but boils down to the same thing really. YOu could be Davis Miller actually. This is what we are dealing with.

Dont you get it.....once again. Gene Lebel supposedly makes it public now via Davis Miller he dont rate bruce as a fighter. He has no problem of it being publci now, so why not when bruce was alive? How hard is it to understand what im saying? Why cant you understand? Bruce thought he could beat lebel, and lebel is going to have to deal with that. I wont going any further here. It dont need further explanation. Maybe Davis Miller was reading in between the lines of what Lebell said. Lebell knew Bruce, you did not, Joe Lewis knew Bruce, you did not. They knew the man, while you are relying on second hand sources. Gene LeBell is not going to rate Bruce as a fighter, because Bruce was untested as a fighter. Bruce thought he could beat LeBell? According to who, what book have you read that covers this? You are giving me a lot of opionions, but no facts.

Gene were friends, if Lebell had something to say why would it be in public, why not in private? Bruce's reasons for not sparring Joe, how to you know any of this? How could you possibly know what reasons Bruce had, where are you getting your information from? Bruce Lee publicly said he could beat anyone in the world? Bruce Lee called out fighters? People were scared to say stuff to Bruce Lee's face? I have demonstrated to you that Wall is not a reliable source yet you insist on using him again. You have yet to give me a source for any of these comments.In fact you havent given me one source to back up anything you have said Dont you get it.....once again. Gene Lebel supposedly makes it public now via Davis Miller that he dont rate bruce as a fighter. He has no problem of it being public knowledge now. So why not make it public knowledge when bruce was alive then? How hard is it to understand what im saying? Why cant you understand? Bruce thought he could beat lebel, and lebel is going to have to deal with that. I wont going any further here. It dont need further explanation.

I could post fedor on the heavy bag. He looks rubbish, slow and ponderous on it. But i bet if i showed you it, youd tell me how great he looks. Go ahead, then post a fight which highlights Fedor's boxing skill.

The problem with this logic is that, the mma fighters you are talking about have: 1: records 2: fight footage Bruce Lee has neither, so you cant make that assumption. his amateurish on the heavy bag, no defence and no combinations In fact why dont you post some links of mma guys on the heavy bag. I could post fedor on the heavy bag. He looks rubbish, slow and ponderous on it. But i bet if i showed you it, youd tell me how great he looks.

MOst MMA fighters who hit the heavybag dont look like boxers, and then they are automatically assumed to be not very good. But Bruce lee and Wong promised not to talk about the fight. When the word got out WOng thought it was bruce lee who bragged, so lied about the outcome, asking for a rematch. Sour grapes. You have to ask yourself if you had to put your life on it who would you believe? Just looking at lindas body language and describing it is enough for me. The problem with this logic is that, the mma fighters you are talking about have: 1: records 2: fight footage Bruce Lee has neither, so you cant make that assumption. his amateurish on the heavy bag, no defence and no combinations In fact why dont you post some links of mma guys on the heavy bag.

Bruce sparred with Bob because he wanted to show what he could do i suppose and that he could beat him. With bruce lee not sparring with JOe is because it would be to show Joe he could beat Joe. THe things bruce would be doing to Joe would not be anything Joes opponents would do. So bruce didnt think it was in Joes best interests to spar with him. Bruce went through scenarios and drills that Joe Lewis would likely encounter with is opponents in sport karate. So bruce did spar with Joe but Bruce didnt go all out on Joe. IT could of got heated and out of control. And that wouldnt have been beneficial to Joe. JOe could have got an injury. ANd that is not good when you are preparing him for a fight. YOu dont sound like you like bruce here. YOu sound spiteful and bitter just because someone is giving bruce credit. Demile hasnt seen anyone around. Hes seen dvds of people and in tournaments in person likely. So hes as good as anyone to judge. Bob Wall said bruce was world class fighter. WHo knows if Bob thinks anyone could beat bruce. He just hasnt been asked it. You know comments like that weaken you argument. Just because I dont agree with DeMille, I have got to be spiteful and bitter? Dan Inosanto has trained with world champions the Gracies and Urquidez to name a few, he is highly respected in martial arts circles. He was a close friend of Bruce's and trained and sparred with him. He does not claim Bruce Lee was a superhuman fighter, he says that Urquidez could give him a run for his money. His opinion is based on training and watching other world class fighters. Why does DeMilles opinions on Bruce count, what is it based on? How many champions has he fought ,who has he trained? Bruce and Gene were friends, if Lebell had something to say why would it be in public, why not in private? Bruce's reasons for not sparring Joe, how to you know any of this? How could you possibly know what reasons Bruce had, where are you getting your information from? Bruce Lee publicly said he could beat anyone in the world? Bruce Lee called out fighters? People were scared to say stuff to Bruce Lee's face? I have demonstrated to you that Wall is not a reliable source yet you insist on using him again. You have yet to give me a source for any of these comments.In fact you havent given me one source to back up anything you have said