Julio Cesar Chavez vs. Manny Pacquiao@135or140

now i'm even more convinced that Pac would stop Chavez :dance: I don't know. Chavez in his prime was a monster just like Pac. His chin was of Iron and his defensive skills were very underrated. Pac is a handful no matter, early on I would have given Chavez the edge but now I think it's a close fight. Speed vs size and power. Chavez in his prime was much, much better than Cotto and i don't see Pac bullying Chavez the way he would Cotto. Tough to say at this point but I think Manny by dec or Chavez by late round KO.

now i'm even more convinced that Pac would stop Chavez :dance:

Ultimately, I think Chavez breaks Pacquaio down in similar fashion to a prime Roberto Duran, just a tab bit longer.

Chavez wouldn't be the complete fighter he was if he was unable to cope with speed. Speedsters were the least of his troubles as his pressure would eventually break them down.

Chavez cant handle speed Pacman late stoppage cuts will be enough =] Chavez is a bum end of thread I think you should rethink that comment.

Chavez was a great technician in the ring and knew how to break his opponents down, he did have trouble with speed guys like Taylor, Whitacker. People bring up Camacho but they fail to realize that Camacho had to go down in weight to fight Chavez, and Camacho was already all messed up with partying and drugs..etc. Pac will give Chavez problems, Im leaniing towards Pac by late stopage..like maybe 11 or 12 rd. You do remember Chavez's chin being cast iron steel right? Prior to Frankie Randall, Chavez would barely even blink upon getting hit. It's hard for one to imagine(especially me), Manny stopping Julio.

Chavez was a great technician in the ring and knew how to break his opponents down, he did have trouble with speed guys like Taylor, Whitacker. People bring up Camacho but they fail to realize that Camacho had to go down in weight to fight Chavez, and Camacho was already all messed up with partying and drugs..etc. Pac will give Chavez problems, Im leaniing towards Pac by late stopage..like maybe 11 or 12 rd.

Is that Bernardo Osuna? That dumbass was a spanish news sportscaster. Now he is a boxing expert. 100 dollars that fool cant even pass one of Roger Mayweathers boxing exams.

I guess this dude is not a true boxing fan i totally agree with this guy 100% :fing02:

This thread turned into a great debate. Great points were made throughout. Chavez was definitely the complete package. He was far from one dimensional and a face first plodder. He had under rated defense and his pressure was relentless. His combo's were fluid and thunderous. Pacquiao's best bet would be to try and box. But there's no way he keeps Julio at bay all night, He would have to stand his ground and trade eventually inside the pocket, which definitely isn't one of his strongest assets. Julio on the other hand was devastating on the inside, which I think helps him break Manny down leading to a late round stoppage.

no one is talking about the greatest of all time and theres a difference between basketball in boxing in boxing you can actually see who is better by fighting each other, basketball is about acheivements, so its not quite like that and this is all opinion, no one is saying for sure who will win, ppl are just stating who they think would win and their reason for it but you're a dumbass and came in here thinking you're some sort of genius trying to say otherwise and just ended sounding like a complete hypocrit :haha: LMAO!!! I give up! You're a duller than a dull knife, stupid! I didn't say anything at all, so I didn't say otherwise numbskull. All I said is, that it is impossible to say who will definitely win until they fight the fight, imbecile. Now go back and suck your momma's tits, you're definitely lacking the nutrition you need to debate here you dumbass...

The thing about Whitaker though is that he was actually a much better inside fighter than he was ever given credit for. Granted he was no Chavez, but Pernell loved to mix it up in the pocket as much as anybody from time to time. People just saw his amazing defense and labelled him a "defensive fighter" when in reality I'd say he was more of an offensive minded boxer with an insane ability to play D. yep, Whitaker really had it all. even power, although he didnt show it too much. defensive minded fighters dont land over 450 punches on fighters the calibur of Azumah Nelson. I think Whitaker landed over 400 two other times, too. Pacquiao didnt have neat the infighting ability of Whitaker though, which I think is a key point to consider.

chavez had underrated defense and could slip shots on the inside.Pac isnt elusive at all and chavez was in their with the fastest. i got chavez with a stoppage win over the president and dictator of the phillipines

I dont think Pacquiao has near the boxing ability to keep Chavez off of him. Chavez was way too good a pressure fighter to keep off...even Whitaker didnt really run in their fight. there was a surprisingly high amount of fouling and dirty fighting in that fight, and Whitaker did have to fight inside quite a few times. he didnt stay there long, but he didnt flat out hug to death. The thing about Whitaker though is that he was actually a much better inside fighter than he was ever given credit for. Granted he was no Chavez, but Pernell loved to mix it up in the pocket as much as anybody from time to time. People just saw his amazing defense and labelled him a "defensive fighter" when in reality I'd say he was more of an offensive minded boxer with an insane ability to play D.

Pacquiao's best bet is to outbox Chavez over 12 but IMO, Manny is not that type of boxer that sticks to a plan for all 12 rounds. Manny jumps on his guy the moment he smells blood, he loves to trade, that may very well end in disaster for him against a guy like Prime Chavez. I see a SD for either guy, that is, if they don't kill each other during the fight. I dont think Pacquiao has near the boxing ability to keep Chavez off of him. Chavez was way too good a pressure fighter to keep off...even Whitaker didnt really run in their fight. there was a surprisingly high amount of fouling and dirty fighting in that fight, and Whitaker did have to fight inside quite a few times. he didnt stay there long, but he didnt flat out hug to death. Pacquiao's smart fight plan would be what Id call 'controlled aggression'...throw his quick hands and combos for a bit, and then run for it while catching his breathe. Hed take damage and probably be the more beat up fighter at the end of the fight, but he very well might have won enough rounds in a 12 round fight to get the decision. no offense meant to Pacquiao, but while his defense has improved, its pretty basic stuff. because of his quick feet he can evade a lot, but in the end his defense is mostly just a generic high guard. I think a lot of Chavez body shots would land because of that, because Chavez was too good of a sharpshooter when it came to his combinations...he didnt always land all of the punches, but if you had an opening in your defense, he would end up landing clean, hard punches there.

for the most part, Chavez was very good against southpaws, Whitaker excluded. he was just too complete, too good, Whitaker... but Chavez was particularly good at getting in range of the lead right, and smacking the right side with his left hook, which landed a lot against southpaws. people talk about the combination punching of Marquez, but fail to recongnise the combination punching of Chavez. not only were his combinations fluid, but they were smart. he could mix up head-body-head combos better than almost anyone. contrary to popular belief, Chavez did not have that much trouble with fast guys. he beat the shit out of Camacho and busted up Taylor bad, and theyre some of the fastest fighters youll ever see. no, the people Chavez had trouble with were volume punchers...he would stay defensive for too long, and end up giving away rounds sometimes just because his opponent would be able to outwork him, like against Sammy Fuentes. Pacquiao has a good punch output, but I mean in the 90s and 100s. generally Pacquiao stays around the 70s in his most active fights. Chavez also had one of most calculated left uppercuts of all time. I think that punch would work very well for him in this fight. If you think about it, although Pacquiao likes to fight it out, hes not really a very good infighter. he likes to back off, get his space and teeoff. can Chavez close the distance and force the fight to close range is the question. Definitely agree with this. Especially what you touched on with Chavez's style. It's become commonplace for most fans to regard him as a one dimensional, face first, plodding brawler but in reality his tyle was much more exciting and dangerous than that. His handspeed wasn't bad, either. I agree with what you said on it as well ; fast guys were no problem for Chavez. The Taylor fight is a clear example of that because while Taylor was outlanding him 2-1, Chavez was picking much better punches, putting more effort into them, and while his handspeed wasn't as blinding as Meldricks it also wasn't anything ot shake a stick at for such a hard hitter.

Pacquiao definitely has the speed and movement to really frustrate the shit out of a fighter like Chavez. On the other hand ; Manny has still yet to be tested by a real puncher at any weight above 130lbs. Diaz never landed a glove, Oscar couldn't even find him, and Hatton was too busy looking at the rafters. I'd be interested to see if Pacquiao was even capable of taking Julio's best shots. Some of those shots he was landing on my boy Meldrick back in 1990 were absolutely brutal. Pacquiao's chin and body would definitely be put to the test if Chavez was able to land on him consistently. The real question is whether or not Pacquiao would allow that. Truth be told he could box the piss out of a fighter like Chavez over the course of 12 rounds if he really wanted to but he is a horrible inside fighter and more often than not elects to fight inside in sputs when he's not using his angles to frustrate his opponet. Great fantasy fight, right here. Unfortunately "fantasy fights" amount to nothing more than the biggest cock tease in the history of professional sports.

for the most part, Chavez was very good against southpaws, Whitaker excluded. he was just too complete, too good, Whitaker... but Chavez was particularly good at getting in range of the lead right, and smacking the right side with his left hook, which landed a lot against southpaws. people talk about the combination punching of Marquez, but fail to recongnise the combination punching of Chavez. not only were his combinations fluid, but they were smart. he could mix up head-body-head combos better than almost anyone. contrary to popular belief, Chavez did not have that much trouble with fast guys. he beat the shit out of Camacho and busted up Taylor bad, and theyre some of the fastest fighters youll ever see. no, the people Chavez had trouble with were volume punchers...he would stay defensive for too long, and end up giving away rounds sometimes just because his opponent would be able to outwork him, like against Sammy Fuentes. Pacquiao has a good punch output, but I mean in the 90s and 100s. generally Pacquiao stays around the 70s in his most active fights. Chavez also had one of most calculated left uppercuts of all time. I think that punch would work very well for him in this fight. If you think about it, although Pacquiao likes to fight it out, hes not really a very good infighter. he likes to back off, get his space and teeoff. can Chavez close the distance and force the fight to close range is the question.

handle? as in handle it with his face? meldrick was tagging chavez at will. If he had played the fight right he would have won a unanimous decision, if he didnt trade so much with chavez it would have been as easy as pernell whitakers win. if if if if if my goodness ever realize that maybe Taylor was a fast handed fighter who actually liked to trade? I mean you have watched more than one Taylor fight I assume?

I think both guys will have major trouble with each other, but I think Pacquiao will take it in the late rounds. Pac may not have the defensive of Whitaker, but I think he had the speed of Taylor, if not faster and more powerful. Pac definitely has more stamina. Chavez has a strong chin, but he was dropped and dissected by Frankie Randall. Pac would only win if he had a strong enough game plan to dissect Chavez and the stay away from the inside. By the way, I think Marquez is more skilled than Chavez ever was, and even he had trouble hitting Pac in body as most of his counters hit Pac right on the chin. IMO, Pac/Marquez/Barrera/Morales > Chavez/Taylor/Camacho/Haugen. the speed of taylor? not even close, have you seen any of taylors fights? you take the jcc that fought taylor in 1990/91 and fight pac, i got chavez by late brutal and bloody knockout. And the second part of your post, what are you thinking, i don't think you have much knowledge of the history or boxing in general.