would boxing have a different history if russians could turn pro back in the day?

I think the history of professional boxing would be quite different. There would still be Ali, Foreman, Holyfield, Marciano, and Tyson in this history, but there would also be quite a few great boxers in this history, coming from Cuba, former USSR, and eastern European countries.

Hell yea, i am %100 sure that there was a russian ALI that could not make it out of the USSR. Dont use the NBA excuse, the best kpckey player in the world is a russian ,if he was to be boxer(6'2 220 pounds)...

maybe cubans not russians

I'd say it's a combination of the world catching up and a decline of US participation in boxing. Even in basketball where they is high participation in the US, we've become less dominate. However, it can't be denied that interest in boxing has badly declined since the 80's. For example: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/print?id=3261511&type=story In the past 20 years, though, there has been a decrease in the number of boxing gyms in New York, going from a high of 150 in the five boroughs in the mid-1980s to about 50 today.

shit era who cares

I thought this was settled when the best thing to come out of eastern europe, a prime Vitali Klitschko, was stopped by a past prime, poorly conditioned Lennox Lewis. Next best is his brother who has been knocked out 3 times by guys who nobody talks about anymore, because the three of them never amounted to anything. How can you say the competition is anything more than garbage compared to nearly any other era? That Vitali Klitschko was also fighting with one eye, with blood blinding the rest of his face. Maybe Vitali was at his best, and Lewis was past his prime, but factor in the injury and they become equal, not to mention Lewis was 37, the same age Vitali is now

oh hell yeah wouldnt have been the same at all

It seems to me that it is more a case that ex-communist nation's whose boxers stayed amateur are now turning professional. It does make you wonder if Teófilo Stevenson and Félix Savón had the same oppotunities or László Papp had been allowed to turn professional earlier and been allowed to pursue his professional career.

The OP was NOT a hater's question, however you seem VERY insecure not to acknowledge that OF COURSE things would have been different. Americans don't realize that the same reasoning can be applied to any other country, they're bereft of logic. I'd use the same simile "can be read like a book" since Americans are so predictable with their feeble excuses but it wouldn't apply since Americans don't read. (except for gossip magazines of course, have to stay up to date with what their celebs are eating,wearing,smoking,drinking)

The OP was NOT a hater's question, however you seem VERY insecure not to acknowledge that OF COURSE things would have been different. Great thread for all the American haters. Take their lame ass responses as a way to vent their jealousy for our country and our great boxing history. Haters can always be read like a book. No way history would have been different. There still to this day has not been one great champion to come out of Russia or eastern Europe.

it's surely can't just be coincidence that they dominate the higher weights these days. i know all the american boys will argue that it's a shit era but the fact is pretty much as soon as they were allowed to fight pro they cleaned up, at HW at least US loves in any sport to call them self World Champion even though, they only fights an other US opponent - very strange attitude ???

Didn't Foreman and Ali beat the hell out the Soviets in the Olympics? http:// http:// Watch Ali's Olympic Final fight, yeah he "won" alright, Second the fighter is from Poland (and he beat Ali). Third Ali did fight a very good Soviet fighter in the 1/4 final, he won a tough 2-1 decision but unfortunately for Ali's credibility the fighter Shatkov was a middleweight lol The Soviets best LHW didn't compete. And Foreman, he fought some fuking Lithuanian who looked like he was 45yrs old. Had he fought someone like Vysotsky (who beat Teofilo Stevenson twice, once by KO) well..........

Well, in theory Communism is a great idea. Not really, it's a crappy evil idea, in theory and in real life. Just look at China, they did it right. They are "Communists" but they even fooled the world to believe that they are no longer "Communists". They allow private companies and their taxes are lower than in the west. They are a dictatorship, not comminists.

Its all an illusion. Its semantics really. What we have in the U.S is a fascist dictatorship, but people here are dumb enough to think they are really free and that they have a meaningful political process when in reality the whole thing is a bogus sham thats bought and paid for by the very financial interests that control communism. Bankers run this goddamn world Flicker, call it democracy, communism, socialism whatever, at the end of the day, they collect our money from right out of our pockets, take all the valuable land and start and fund both sides of every war. ****in' 4th of July was a loooong time ago. We may not agree on Boxing.. but we have some similar political beliefs ...

Its all an illusion. Its semantics really. What we have in the U.S is a fascist dictatorship, but people here are dumb enough to think they are really free and that they have a meaningful political process when in reality the whole thing is a bogus sham thats bought and paid for by the very financial interests that control communism. Bankers run this goddamn world Flicker, call it democracy, communism, socialism whatever, at the end of the day, they collect our money from right out of our pockets, take all the valuable land and start and fund both sides of every war. ****in' 4th of July was a loooong time ago. Not really. 4th of July is just what it is, a date. US Independence Day is different. lol But I dont care really about the bankers thing. They can do whatever. As long as I get to be comfortable and happy with my time on the planet, im straight.

The US still has the most boxing gyms per capita, but from what I've read, the Eastern European countries are opening more and more each year. Back in the sixties through the 90s, most of the best boxing gyms in the world were in the big US cities like Detroit, Boston, St. Louis, Philadelphia, and New York. There were never very many boxing gyms in the suberbs and small towns, but LOTS in the inner neighborhoods of the big cities. But Americans are gradually losing that big advantage, many have been closing down - the rest of the world is catching up. What your little statistics don't tell you is how many of the boxing gyms belong to the "LA Boxing" chain of gyms. You obviously have never been to a LA Boxing or you would know it is nothing more than a place for soccer moms to drop of depressed kids after school. No elite fighters are coming out of there. They are not real gyms.

LOL, rotten Commie bastards...albeit, to be fair the U.S and British Financier elite are the ones who created and funded them. The Russian people themselves had no part of it and wanted no part of it. Well, in theory Communism is a great idea. The way the Soviet government ran it, is what failed the country. Just look at China, they did it right. They are "Communists" but they even fooled the world to believe that they are no longer "Communists". They are called something else now.

You obviously know little about American culture. They are not excuses, they are facts. Dozens boys in America dream of becoming the next Shane Mosley, Manny Pacquiao, Arthur Abraham, Floyd Mayweather, ect.. Millions of boys dream of becoming "like Mike," like Lebron, like LT, like A-Rod. Basketball and football are parts of kids school sports. All of them have access to them. VERY few towns even have boxing gyms. EVERY town has a football field, a basketball court, and a baseball field. They think it's a shitty excuse, but it's 100% true.

Your misunderstanding. The best Soviets couldn't fight olympics or pros, meaning Foreman and Ali in the olympics were fighting the mediocre Soviets. Not the best the Soviet Union had to offer. We wont know what would have happened if the best Soviets during that time did fight. Because USSR decided to become commies. I understand what the guy is saying. The fact is they didn't become boxers, and saying if they did they would be better than Muhammad Ali is stupid.

basketball players are all a bunch of pussies Says the guy who is not an elite level participant in ANY sport.