Ok fellas I saw the fight on the replay last night. WOW is all I can say about the first 5 rounds or so. We had a very exciting fight on our hands and knock down after knock down round after round. I was thinking to myself why isn't Ortiz using his jab? I know he has that good straight left hand and he should have been using his jab to set that up but it seems like he was content fighting the other guys fight. I saw after one round that oscar was yelling at Ortiz from ring side to be smart. I belive it was after Victor scored two knockdowns. Ortiz moved in for the kill but was unable to finish him. It seemed the Argentinan got stronger and was able to hurt ortiz with the right hand at will.
in the 6th when Ortiz QUIT.....Yeah I know they said the doctor stopped the fight but as everyone saw he shook his head no and told Raul NO MAS!!! He was hit with some big shots and rocked int he corner kinda shoved down to his knees with a left to the body. he seemed like he was ok to continue but he just didn't want to. I saw the first person who grabbed his ear was Shane Mosley. I couldn;t really reads his lips but I could only imagine what he was saying to Ortiz. Bob Pappa called them words of wisdom but to me t looked more like Shane telling him..."Come Victor you don;t quit like that? That was a poor excuse for a guy with as much talent as you to just give up for no good reason". I didn;t see Oscar grab his ear but I know they were very dipleased with him for quitting like that.
Then after that conversation went and passed Kellerman grabbed him for a post fight interview. he seemed like some air head surfer dude with the way he was speaking. Like he had no common sense or he just didn;t care about his career. You gotto know that Mexican fight fans don;t play when it comes to quitting. For him to say what he said post fight may have damamged his career for good. I know I lost alot of respect for him. I was very much interested in seeing this fight and looking forward to furture matchups with this young talented fighter but after seeing him quit and then hearing his post fight words I am not so sure anymore that I care if I ever see him in the ring again.
Truly a shame because even if he had lost this fight by either decision or got KTFO I would have ut this match up there for a vote in the fight of the year. It had tons of back and forth action dramam and knocdowns all it was missing was the knock out. Someone should tell Victor that is every fighter thought like him then he would probably be working some IT job or be repairing cars becuase no one would watch boxing.....MMA? Fighting inside a cage elbows and knees I think Ortiz would shit his pants if he had to get in there with those rules.....he really shamed Golden Boy and the Mexican fans who paid good money to see him fight Saturday night. I truly wonder what Oscar and Shane had to say after that embarassmant.....Lefty
what fight where you watching? the guy was out on his feet.. he couldn't even speak in his corner.
I think it's one of those things where your not sure you want to be something until you tried it.. vic tried boxing and unfortunately had to realise it in the ring that maybe this isn't what he wants to be. no shame in that. at least he tried it to see wether he was good or not.
least he got that far.. You will never do anything as significant or noteworthy as Vic did just headlining his own card AT LEAST he got that far.
Dude they were asking him in the corner if he wanted to continue and telling him they were going to stop the fight...he didn;t say anything because he was trying to save face hoping they would stop the fight for him instead of him having to quit...he was ok to continue sure he had his bell rung a few times but that is part of the sport....No harm no foul.....He needed to work off his jab and keep off the ropes hold and grab vor a round instead he walked right into a hard right hand to start the 6th round and then got himself stuck in the corner...He wasn't hit with anything signifacant in the corner but a half body shot half push got him on the canvas he had enough sense to quit an respond to the reff he was fine he just didn;t want anymore right hands....lefty
nah man don't teach an honest kid to be crooked.
I dont think by saying he did his best and the best man won I am disappointed in my performance and I have no one to blame for it but myself I have to regroup and rethink my strategy and walking away is being dishonest...Lefty
Sometimes honesty is NOT the best policy Pully.....You know he could have just said Look Max The best man won today I am really disappointed in myself and my performance. I thought I could take him out and I am sorry to my fans who came out to see me win. I will be back but for now I have to regroup and rethink my strategy for my next fight....not I was hurt and I am not going to lay down for nobody blah blah blah i shouldnt be getting beat up like this blah blah blah laugh laugh laugh....WTF?????....Lefty
nah man don't teach an honest kid to be crooked.
I am not a fan of MMA but there is a big difference between tapping out because someone has you in a choke hold or is about to break your arm off at the elbow....he took a few shots and was thrown to the ground he wasn't that badily hurt when he quit...He could have continued and held on possibly KTFO of the other guy Maidana....Lefty
what fight where you watching? the guy was out on his feet.. he couldn't even speak in his corner.
I think it's one of those things where your not sure you want to be something until you tried it.. vic tried boxing and unfortunately had to realise it in the ring that maybe this isn't what he wants to be. no shame in that. at least he tried it to see wether he was good or not.
least he got that far.. You will never do anything as significant or noteworthy as Vic did just headlining his own card AT LEAST he got that far.
GBP was probably pissed with Ortiz's interview w/ Max.
At least Victor is an honest kid.
Sometimes honesty is NOT the best policy Pully.....You know he could have just said Look Max The best man won today I am really disappointed in myself and my performance. I thought I could take him out and I am sorry to my fans who came out to see me win. I will be back but for now I have to regroup and rethink my strategy for my next fight....not I was hurt and I am not going to lay down for nobody blah blah blah i shouldnt be getting beat up like this blah blah blah laugh laugh laugh....WTF?????....Lefty
As soon as he got hit hard in teh 5th he started retreating and putting himself against the ropes you could see he was really reluctant to exchange. he seemed buzzed and took some really hard shots. To me he was hurt worse in the 5th then in the 6th. Maidana started off round 6 with a hard right hand backing Ortiz up from the get go. He got him in the cornera dn Ortiz weaved his way around a few shots and ended up on his hands and knees. he got up quickly at the counts o 3 and then started to give the impression he did not want to continue by shaking his hand and his head and turning his back on the reff....the reff took mercy on him and gave him a few more seconds by pulling him to the ringside and haiving the doctor check the cut above his right eye. As they were there Ortiz gave no indication he wanted to continue he said nothing like I am ok his body language was of a beaten fighter who no longer wanted to fight. The reff took more mercy on him by saying to the doctor serverals times I am going to stop the fight he cant continue I am going to sotp it should I stop it and finallythe doctor said yes he cannot continue go ahead and stop the fight. But the dumb ignorant kid couldnt even take the pass the reff and the doctor gave him by fouling it up for him self with his retarded interview after the fight.....We all have eyes and we could see it but we dont need it rubbed in our faces.....Lefty
See the thread Did he or didn;t he and I am bumping this up....Lefty
i cant believe he quit
As soon as he got hit hard in teh 5th he started retreating and putting himself against the ropes you could see he was really reluctant to exchange. he seemed buzzed and took some really hard shots. To me he was hurt worse in the 5th then in the 6th. Maidana started off round 6 with a hard right hand backing Ortiz up from the get go. He got him in the cornera dn Ortiz weaved his way around a few shots and ended up on his hands and knees. he got up quickly at the counts o 3 and then started to give the impression he did not want to continue by shaking his hand and his head and turning his back on the reff....the reff took mercy on him and gave him a few more seconds by pulling him to the ringside and haiving the doctor check the cut above his right eye. As they were there Ortiz gave no indication he wanted to continue he said nothing like I am ok his body language was of a beaten fighter who no longer wanted to fight. The reff took more mercy on him by saying to the doctor serverals times I am going to stop the fight he cant continue I am going to sotp it should I stop it and finallythe doctor said yes he cannot continue go ahead and stop the fight. But the dumb ignorant kid couldnt even take the pass the reff and the doctor gave him by fouling it up for him self with his retarded interview after the fight.....We all have eyes and we could see it but we dont need it rubbed in our faces.....Lefty
Victor Ortiz will NEVER be the star people thought he could be after this fight. He doesn't have the mentality. I compared him a little to Vargas but hell Vargas would never have gone out like that. The post fight interview showed that he doesn't have what it takes and at the press conference he was coached what to say. I've never really understood why people thought this guy was the next big thing. He has star quality as far as personality but as far as boxing he's pretty good but far from a star.
In his previous fights he was in their with guys that just couldn't handle his pressure. I've always thought his chin was questionable, although he did take some solid shots in the fight, his defense is pretty bad. Drops his hands too low and very poor head movement. offensively he has good power but subpar handspeed, especially at the elite level at 140-147.
That being said, if he would have boxed this guy he probably would have won. He didn't jab or go to the body at all. He needs to box because he's not a slugger. At least not against someone who's going to be able to take it and give it back. This guy didn't have a lot except a hard punch and was just about out of there himself after the last two KD. With his style, Ortiz is bound to get beat up in fights and he just doesn't look like he wants to be the type of warrior that could deal with that. Ortiz=Overhyped
I like his style and he is exciting to watch...he can box and he can slug it out if need be...HBO was touting him highly until he just gave up in the 6th round. Emmanuel and Bob didn;t say anything brash after that but leave it to max to say it like it was out there. If you didn't notice what happened and you didn;t read much into the post fight with Max then when Max said what he said after the fight defintely did him in....he is not very smart and Oscar and Co should have walked him back to the dressing room right after the fight and skipped that in the ring interview.....If he was so badly hurt like he said he was....Lefty
Victor Ortiz will NEVER be the star people thought he could be after this fight. He doesn't have the mentality. I compared him a little to Vargas but hell Vargas would never have gone out like that. The post fight interview showed that he doesn't have what it takes and at the press conference he was coached what to say. I've never really understood why people thought this guy was the next big thing. He has star quality as far as personality but as far as boxing he's pretty good but far from a star.
In his previous fights he was in their with guys that just couldn't handle his pressure. I've always thought his chin was questionable, although he did take some solid shots in the fight, his defense is pretty bad. Drops his hands too low and very poor head movement. offensively he has good power but subpar handspeed, especially at the elite level at 140-147.
That being said, if he would have boxed this guy he probably would have won. He didn't jab or go to the body at all. He needs to box because he's not a slugger. At least not against someone who's going to be able to take it and give it back. This guy didn't have a lot except a hard punch and was just about out of there himself after the last two KD. With his style, Ortiz is bound to get beat up in fights and he just doesn't look like he wants to be the type of warrior that could deal with that. Ortiz=Overhyped
Some things are better off left usaid Silencers....The fact is he chose a sport where you can get killed in the ring. it is what it is fighters know what they risk when they step through those ropes and fans expect the very best they have to offer. Even if that means to go out on your shield and come back to fight another day....Tony The Cement Mixer Margarito even though he shamed himself with the wraps he still cameout in that last round and took his lumps like a man from Shane and went out on his shield. I truly think Ortiz got hurt but he could have continued or atleast tried too....I respect you view Siliencers but you can't convince me other wise about this kid....Lefty
I don't really like what he said either but all I'm saying is that I get why he did it and it some way it makes sense.
We'll just agree to disagree. :beerchug:
I don't really have a problem with what either one of them did, Cotto or Ortiz, we weren't in their shoes. Yeah, it looked like Ortiz quit but I won't bash him for it because I can understand why he did it, I think too much emphasis is placed nowadays on being a warrior. Even though what he said in the interview wasn't pleasing to the fans or to his promoter, it made sense. He's a young guy with his future ahead of him, he can live to fight another day and as he said, talk well when he gets older.
Yes he can come across as immature sometimes but I don't really think he's dumb or anything like that. I actually think he uses that immaturity and carefree demeanor as a defense mechanism honestly because of all the stuff that's happened to him throughout his life. He has a good personality that fans will still like even after this though, in the ring is where he has to make amends to the fans because he pissed off a lot of people with what he said.
Some things are better off left usaid Silencers....The fact is he chose a sport where you can get killed in the ring. it is what it is fighters know what they risk when they step through those ropes and fans expect the very best they have to offer. Even if that means to go out on your shield and come back to fight another day....Tony The Cement Mixer Margarito even though he shamed himself with the wraps he still cameout in that last round and took his lumps like a man from Shane and went out on his shield. I truly think Ortiz got hurt but he could have continued or atleast tried too....I respect you view Siliencers but you can't convince me other wise about this kid....Lefty
Check out the post-presser if you haven't already. At 11:50 when Ortiz was being asked about what happened at the end, DLH quickly jumps in and says that he wanted (or was willing) to continue and then Schaefer goes on about how the doctor made a great decision not allowing it continue. They were obviously trying to cover up the reality of what happened.
http://video.boxingscene.com/filess/ortizmaidanapost.wmv
I know, his tone and statements were totally different in the presser. I'm pretty sure DLH or Schaefer or Mosley, maybe even all 3 got on his case in the dressing room.
I believe ortiz will learn from this he's still young and can still come out at the top
You can never measure the size of someones heart and you can't teach someone courage...To me he lacks courage and the heart to overcome adversity...From what I read I am not the first person to say this....Lefty
I know it was different, Cotto was beaten up pretty bad by that point by what could have been suspect wraps and you're right, he was smart to say he had enough weeks after the fight, the manner in which he fought in the past helps fans forgive him as well for taking those knees.
I thought the last knockdown was from an accumulation of shots as well as Ortiz just crumbling, Ortiz took maybe 3 or 4 right hands before he went down. Anyways, as I said, what he said in the interview was a promoter's nightmare but I don't think it's enough to bury him yet but if he does it again, then that's it for Victor Ortiz.
Check out the post-presser if you haven't already. At 11:50 when Ortiz was being asked about what happened at the end, DLH quickly jumps in and says that he wanted (or was willing) to continue and then Schaefer goes on about how the doctor made a great decision not allowing it continue. They were obviously trying to cover up the reality of what happened.
http://video.boxingscene.com/filess/ortizmaidanapost.wmv
I don;t see a problem with what Cotto did in the margarito fight. I never saw it as quitting. I think the man was drianed physically and the reff should have stopped it because he could no longer protect himself. Ortiz was totally different. I don't know or I haven't seen the interview you are speaking of about Cotto but I am pretty sure Cotto didn;t say anything like I am not about to lay down for anybody blah blah blah...And laugh and act like some air headed surfer dude....kawabunga man i aint going down for no body blah blah blah.....Honestly I don;t see why GBP would want to salvage or invest any more money in that dudes carrer he seems dumber then a bag of rocks....Lefty
I don't really have a problem with what either one of them did, Cotto or Ortiz, we weren't in their shoes. Yeah, it looked like Ortiz quit but I won't bash him for it because I can understand why he did it, I think too much emphasis is placed nowadays on being a warrior. Even though what he said in the interview wasn't pleasing to the fans or to his promoter, it made sense. He's a young guy with his future ahead of him, he can live to fight another day and as he said, talk well when he gets older.
Yes he can come across as immature sometimes but I don't really think he's dumb or anything like that. I actually think he uses that immaturity and carefree demeanor as a defense mechanism honestly because of all the stuff that's happened to him throughout his life. He has a good personality that fans will still like even after this though, in the ring is where he has to make amends to the fans because he pissed off a lot of people with what he said.
I know it was different, Cotto was beaten up pretty bad by that point by what could have been suspect wraps and you're right, he was smart to say he had enough weeks after the fight, the manner in which he fought in the past helps fans forgive him as well for taking those knees.
I thought the last knockdown was from an accumulation of shots as well as Ortiz just crumbling, Ortiz took maybe 3 or 4 right hands before he went down. Anyways, as I said, what he said in the interview was a promoter's nightmare but I don't think it's enough to bury him yet but if he does it again, then that's it for Victor Ortiz.
I don;t see a problem with what Cotto did in the margarito fight. I never saw it as quitting. I think the man was drianed physically and the reff should have stopped it because he could no longer protect himself. Ortiz was totally different. I don't know or I haven't seen the interview you are speaking of about Cotto but I am pretty sure Cotto didn;t say anything like I am not about to lay down for anybody blah blah blah...And laugh and act like some air headed surfer dude....kawabunga man i aint going down for no body blah blah blah.....Honestly I don;t see why GBP would want to salvage or invest any more money in that dudes carrer he seems dumber then a bag of rocks....Lefty
Silencers Cotto and Ortiz are two different animals...Cotto took a hell of alot more punishment off of Tony The Cement Mixer Margarito that night then ortiz did off of Maidana....If you look at the final knockdown I didn't see single punch pand I saw something to the body but it looked more like a push then a punch. he slid to his knees and got right up. He clearly could have continued and fought on. When I watch the Cotto magarito fight it looks to me that Cotto was finished and all that was left for him was to be severly hurt if he tried to continue. He was busted up pretty bad in the face and much more to the body where it really counts in the late rounds. he had been on his bicycle all night and he ran out of gas. Two different fights for me and two different fighters....Also Cotto did the smart thing and never said what Ortiz said in his post fight interview. Cotto was so beat up he couldn;t do a post fight interview.....Two different things. To me Ortiz would have quit against Clottey if he were in Cotto's position....Lefty
I know it was different, Cotto was beaten up pretty bad by that point by what could have been suspect wraps and you're right, he was smart to say he had enough weeks after the fight, the manner in which he fought in the past helps fans forgive him as well for taking those knees.
I thought the last knockdown was from an accumulation of shots as well as Ortiz just crumbling, Ortiz took maybe 3 or 4 right hands before he went down. Anyways, as I said, what he said in the interview was a promoter's nightmare but I don't think it's enough to bury him yet but if he does it again, then that's it for Victor Ortiz.
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