If Pacquaio beats Cotto at 147 then its fair to say that he's the greatest fighter...

I'd put the 53-1 Vasquez at 154 above the Oscar that Pac beat. Vasquez really did a number on Winky Wright, but Pea beat him by a wide decision. As for the risk factor, things like that can be deceptive IMO. Some wins look better as time goes by, and some risks are a lot more calculated than they originally appear. To answer your opening thread question, I think that Pac deserves to be mentioned among the very best of the past 15-20 years. Pac-Mayweather is the fight that will tell us a lot about each guy and their historical standing. Pac-Cotto is a good matchup too, and a very good win for either guy. But it's not enough to justify putting Pac above all of the other modern greats, especially if he brings Cotto too far down in weight.QUOTE] Thats why i said it must be at 147.

I think you underestimate Whitaker a little bit. Overtaking the likes of Jones Jr., Mayweather Jr., Hopkins, etc. is one thing, overtaking someone who is not only one of the 5 or 10 most talented boxers ever but has a GREAT resume full of marqee names too is another It's the difference between top 50 ATG and top 20 ATG I think Cotto would be a great name on Pac's resume for the record, and I prefer this fight to a Mosley one (I think at this stage Cotto IS better than Mosley) Trust me i never dream of underestimating Whittakers resume and hall of fame status. I'm just trying to put things into persepective. I think you guys ent seeing the bigger picture of a flyweight moving up and beating a true welterweight. Thats effectively what im trying to say.

What im saying is who did Whittaker take a big risk against by moving up to their weight and beating them, like this fantasy Pac-Cotto scenario. I'm talking about a serious threat who people thought Whittaker would be way out of his comfort zone and would lose.? I think you underestimate Whitaker a little bit. Overtaking the likes of Jones Jr., Mayweather Jr., Hopkins, etc. is one thing, overtaking someone who is not only one of the 5 or 10 most talented boxers ever but has a GREAT resume full of marqee names too is another It's the difference between top 50 ATG and top 20 ATG I think Cotto would be a great name on Pac's resume for the record, and I prefer this fight to a Mosley one (I think at this stage Cotto IS better than Mosley)

The first 6 rounds, he was moving away from Margarito's punches and at that point was pretty much giving him a boxing lesson. It reminded me a bit of De La Hoya-Trinidad. Well that's great except championship bouts are scheduled for 12 rounds.

You don't get tagged because you're struggling to make weight, you get tagged because you don't have good defense. He was getting hurt because he was struggling to make weight. And being able to move doesn't make you elusive...at all (evidence: please see Cotto's grill following last Saturday night). Was he elusive against Margarito? Hell nah, he got tagged PLENTY. PLENTY. The first 6 rounds, he was moving away from Margarito's punches and at that point was pretty much giving him a boxing lesson. It reminded me a bit of De La Hoya-Trinidad.

He got tagged a lot at 140 because of weight issues mainly. What i was saying is he ent no human punch bag. He can move when he wants as proved in the Mosley, Margarito and Clottey fights. There were times when he was able to miss and skip punches. You don't get tagged because you're struggling to make weight, you get tagged because you don't have good defense. He was getting hurt because he was struggling to make weight. And being able to move doesn't make you elusive...at all (evidence: please see Cotto's grill following last Saturday night). Was he elusive against Margarito? Hell nah, he got tagged PLENTY. PLENTY.

Cotto is anti-elusive. It's his biggest, most glaring flaw. Come on, everyone tagged Cotto at 140. At 147 his chin has gotten better but his defense sure hasn't. He got tagged a lot at 140 because of weight issues mainly. What i was saying is he ent no human punch bag. He can move when he wants as proved in the Mosley, Margarito and Clottey fights. There were times when he was able to miss and skip punches.

What im saying is who did Whittaker take a big risk against by moving up to their weight and beating them, like this fantasy Pac-Cotto scenario. I'm talking about a serious threat who people thought Whittaker would be way out of his comfort zone and would lose.? I'm not sure your example applies to Pac fighting Cotto. Pac would definitely be the favorite. Secondly, who cares? You don't need to do that in order to be great, Whitaker's resume speaks for itself. He is ahead of Pac with good reason - beating a fringe HOF'er like Miguel Cotto won't change that.

he'll be closer to Sweet Pea. higher? not IMO if he beats Mayweather aswell then I'd say he is What im saying is who did Whittaker take a big risk against by moving up to their weight and beating them, like this fantasy Pac-Cotto scenario. I'm talking about a serious threat who people thought Whittaker would be way out of his comfort zone and would lose.?

Cotto ent exactly short of movement and power. You go on like Cotto's some sort of punch bag. He's a pretty elusive fighter. Cotto is anti-elusive. It's his biggest, most glaring flaw. Come on, everyone tagged Cotto at 140. At 147 his chin has gotten better but his defense sure hasn't.

If Pacquaio beats Cotto at 147 then its fair to say that he's the greatest fighter... I agree, both will be 147 lbs. and above come fight night regardless of catchweight. And Pacquiao will have defeated a legitimate welterweight, not super welterweight.

Cotto ent exactly short of movement and power. You go on like Cotto's some sort of punch bag. He's a pretty elusive fighter. No he's not.

Well exactly. Clottey always does that so I would have NEVER expected him to beat Cotto. Not a chance in hell. The only real surprise was how close he came to doing it. Beating Cotto won't push Pacman to the heights you speak of. Nope...not him. But beating Cotto at 147 will bring Pacman to new heights. Thats what im saying. Regardless of whether you'd prefer him fighting Shane, a Cotto win at 147 would put him amongst the very creme of our sport. A guy coming from flyweight and beating a top welter, if not the best welter.

Yes...beating Floyd...now we're talking.

he'll be closer to Sweet Pea. higher? not IMO if he beats Mayweather aswell then I'd say he is

Personally i think Clottey is overrated but still obviously a top welter. He lacks simple intelligence and is not a thinking fighter. He could have won the fight but Cotto was far more intelligent in the ring. Well exactly. Clottey always does that so I would have NEVER expected him to beat Cotto. Not a chance in hell. The only real surprise was how close he came to doing it. Beating Cotto won't push Pacman to the heights you speak of. Nope...not him.

What does the cuthave to do with it?? Pac hs great speed movement and power...Cotto gets KO'd in this one. Cotto ent exactly short of movement and power. You go on like Cotto's some sort of punch bag. He's a pretty elusive fighter.

Yes, because Pacquiao will actually try. Yeh thats true. With a cut like that Pac wil definetly go for the stoppage.

Of our generation. I mean thats including all the greats of the 90's. The Whittakers, the Chavez's the RJJ's, the Mayweather's etc etc. I mean just think about it, the guy came from Flyweight, beat the top 3 featherweights of our generation, moved up and beat the best 140 pounder and to beat Cotto at 147 i think settles his legacy. I know i may get gunned down for this but take a subjective view of Pac as a fighter. Starting off a flyweight and being able to win a welterweight title will be one of the biggest achievements of a fighter. This will surpass RJJ's achievement of winning a heavyweight title as Pac will be facing the top welter rather than a 2nd grade welter like Berto. Plus the risk factor involved is immense. What you guys think? Is this a fair comment? Am i giving Pac too much credit? Discuss As a Mayweather fan, definitely YES. Floyd is still the most skilled i've ever seen a fighter but if he doesn't nothing in between i'd edge Pacquiao, even if he beats Cotto at a catchweight. That said, i think Floyd beats him and reverses all this talk back to him.

Yes, you are. If Clottey didn't have such a fear of success, he would've stopped Cotto. Personally i think Clottey is overrated but still obviously a top welter. He lacks simple intelligence and is not a thinking fighter. He could have won the fight but Cotto was far more intelligent in the ring.