Berto dancing and holding his way in a snoozefest

Thanx my dudde but I hardly think Cintron was doing what Berto was doing....Cintron may have started to grab and latch on little bit more in the 9th when he tired some but he wasn't grabbing like that from the utset. You man is fun to watch and brings alot to the sport. I like that pressure style mixed in there with a fighter who can box it is fun to watch the cat and mouse game....Lefty The bottom line is that you can't blame Berto for it though. It's the refs job to decide whether he will allow this or not. Just like when Hatton fought in England, he was allowed certian tactics that he wasn't allowed to do in the U.S when he fought Mayweather. I just think you are coming down on Berto way too much. He fought a smart fight, pitched a shut out and held because the ref ALLOWED him to hold. If the ref took a point from him and didn't allow him to do this, we would have seen a much different fight.

Thanx Left, I did notice the ref warning Cintron in the 11th I think it was, kind of a moot point then but it is what it is, my boy will bounce back. As far as berto goes, yeah man, his holding got pretty annoying. Overall we had a great time, cheers my friend. Thanx my dudde but I hardly think Cintron was doing what Berto was doing....Cintron may have started to grab and latch on little bit more in the 9th when he tired some but he wasn't grabbing like that from the utset. You man is fun to watch and brings alot to the sport. I like that pressure style mixed in there with a fighter who can box it is fun to watch the cat and mouse game....Lefty

Crowd was insane during the Cintron-Angulo fight, there were a lot of Boricuas and a handful of Mexicans a long with some Colombians/South Americans cheering for Perro. I say the Boricuas were the loudest during the fight. I have yet to see the fight on TV but it was a very exciting fight throughout even though my boy lost. Hell that should of been the main event, it would of woken up a lot of people. Well the reff in that fight got on Cintrons case about holding and told him if he continues he is going to take a point away...maybe if the reff did the same thing to berto there would have been more action you know....Glad you enjoyed the first fight meng....lefty

Man, I wasn't impressed with my boy on Saturday. The first 4-5 rounds were pretty exciting, there were a few exchanges but that was about it, after that he basically held and ran the whole night and flashed a little speed here and there. I think they are making him slug less now and focus on moving but he's really paying a price for it. I was falling asleep mid through the fight and I was there live, the crowd wasn't into it after the 6th round, even his Haitian posse was just like whatever and would cheer only when he landed a quick right or uppercut but the fight lost all the momentum it had from that point on. That is pretty bad when you are there live and you are falling asleep. How was the crowd during the Cintron fight?....Lefty

How much? He will continue to improve... he JUST turned 25... you think he will no longer improve? no longer learn new things? thats insane. He will be 26 in less than 4 months REED......He is not that young for god sake Ricky hatton is 30 and people are saying he is finished....Fernando Vargas fought Trinindad 5 days before his 23rd birthday. He was 24 when he stepped in the ring with Oscar De La Hoya. Berto haas been handled with kid :bottle:gloves long enough it is time to let him get in there with a real threat so we can see what he can do. I stated this yesterday and I stand on my position he never really tried to hurt or go after urango even after he learned that was the better boxer faster and stronger man. He had plenty of rounds in the bank in everybodys mind he was trying to make a statement but instead of punching and moving he was grabbing and hugging us to sleep....Lefty

Agreed... the holding has got to go, and i think it has to do with his stamina.. he seems to need short breaks...

Yup..... We both agree he was stunned... I just dont think he was as stunned, as long as you think he was. I just think Collazo saw that he stunned Berto and Collazo WENT ALL OUT after him, and Berto was simply trying to stop him coming in so fast.. thats my $.02. I here you sir I think he was hurt from 4:07 to about 4:48 or 40 seconds from that straight left hand and after he recovered about 5:05 or so he went on the all out attack. but I defintely saw the round the way I saw it and you saw it differently. This is why judges score rounds differently and sometimes people are upset with decisions right? Berto has skill and defintely grit but I think he needs to lessen up on the holding a bit and use his wheels to avoid getting hit....Lefty

Yup..... We both agree he was stunned... I just dont think he was as stunned, as long as you think he was. I just think Collazo saw that he stunned Berto and Collazo WENT ALL OUT after him, and Berto was simply trying to stop him coming in so fast.. thats my $.02.

Lets agree to disagree my man....Got nothing but love for ya homie.....Lefty

Reed I never said he was completely out of it I said he was hurt and he was holding on. You said he wasn't holding you said he was fine fired right back and started boxing again. Merely a stumble off balance shot. He was hit clean and knocked backwards. He was actually on his way in when Collazo caught him. He was holding afterwards not that he was on rubber legs but he was defintely trying to shake his cobwebs out. He probably didn't expect Collazo to be able to hurt him and he got surprised. But he was defintely holding cause he was indeed hurt Reed. If he wasn't hurt being the type of fighter he is maybe he would have gotten on his bicycle but he couldnt out run Collazo he couldn't outbox Collazo and he learned that he could be hurt by Collazo. He was holding on because he was hurt not in serious trouble a punch or two away from being in serious trouble. watch the fight again Reed watch that round again Reed. Right around 5:10 or so Berto finally gets the cobwebs out and feels well enough to go on the attack. He was no longer hurt but after a few punches and combinations he starts to retreat again and holds 2 more times before the end of the round. not because he was hurt but now because he knew he could be hurt and was being cautious....lefty I did watch the round LEFTY. He got stunned by a clean shot lefty. He was holding to stop Collazo's momentum lefty. Collazo was coming in fast and crazy, and Berto was trying to stop that LEFTY. He was momentarily stunned, and was fine shortly after.... lefty. I watched him throw a punch and then tie up again... lefty. To try and stop Collazos momentum, lefty. Berto was holding in the Urango fight too, lefty. He was never hurt in the Urango fight lefty. But he still held lefty. Just like he did in this fight lefty. He was definitey stunned, but the falling into the ropes WAS because he was thrown off balance................ REED.

He was clinching but it wasnt because he was hurt IMO... he didnt look hurt, he didnt act hurt, he wasnt stumbling, he didnt look faded or out of it... he had his balance the entire time... He was clinching to try and stop Colazzos momentum, he threw a punch and clinched to not give luis a chance to fire back or counter... He was stunned, when that clean punch landed. Collazo kept coming at him full speed, full force, and Berto was trying to slow his pace down. I did not see him holding because he was hurt and out of it. Reed I never said he was completely out of it I said he was hurt and he was holding on. You said he wasn't holding you said he was fine fired right back and started boxing again. Merely a stumble off balance shot. He was hit clean and knocked backwards. He was actually on his way in when Collazo caught him. He was holding afterwards not that he was on rubber legs but he was defintely trying to shake his cobwebs out. He probably didn't expect Collazo to be able to hurt him and he got surprised. But he was defintely holding cause he was indeed hurt Reed. If he wasn't hurt being the type of fighter he is maybe he would have gotten on his bicycle but he couldnt out run Collazo he couldn't outbox Collazo and he learned that he could be hurt by Collazo. He was holding on because he was hurt not in serious trouble a punch or two away from being in serious trouble. watch the fight again Reed watch that round again Reed. Right around 5:10 or so Berto finally gets the cobwebs out and feels well enough to go on the attack. He was no longer hurt but after a few punches and combinations he starts to retreat again and holds 2 more times before the end of the round. not because he was hurt but now because he knew he could be hurt and was being cautious....lefty

He was clinching but it wasnt because he was hurt IMO... he didnt look hurt, he didnt act hurt, he wasnt stumbling, he didnt look faded or out of it... he had his balance the entire time... He was clinching to try and stop Colazzos momentum, he threw a punch and clinched to not give luis a chance to fire back or counter... He was stunned, when that clean punch landed. Collazo kept coming at him full speed, full force, and Berto was trying to slow his pace down. I did not see him holding because he was hurt and out of it.

I'd rather watch Floyd Mayweather fight any night instead of Andre Berto. And that says a lot to me.

1. Luis Collazo (US) 2. Selcuk Aydin (Turkey) INTL 3. Jackson Osei Bonsu (Belgium) 4. Jesus Soto Karass (Mexico) 5. Saul Alvarez (Mexico) NABF 6. Luis Carlos Abregu (Argentina) FESUBOX 7. Juan Urango (Colombia) 8. Rafal Jackiewicz (Poland) 9. Ivan Kirpa (Russia) 10. Miguel Rodriguez (Mexico) 11. Vitaliy Demyanenko (Kazakhstan) ABCO 12. Said Ouali (Morocco) 13. Motoki Sasaki (Japan) OPBF 14. Sebastian Lujan (Argentina) 15. Damian Frias (Cuba) LATINO 16. Carlos Quintana (P. Rico) 17. Zab Judah (US) 18. Joey Hernandez (US) 19. Carlos Baldomir (Argentina) 20. Irving Garcia (P. Rico) 21. Gianluca Branco (Italy) 22. James de la Rosa (Mexico) 23. Carlos Molina (US) 24. Delvin Rodriguez (US) 25. Kell Brook (GB) BBB C 26. Mike Jones (US) 27. Orlando Lora (Mexico) AMERICA 28. Ed Paredes (US) YOUTH interim / CABOFE 29. Antonio Diaz (Mexico) 30. John O'Donnell (GB) COMM 31. Antonin Decaire (Canada) 32. Michel Rosales (Mexico) USNBC/ABMH 33. Leonard Bundu (Sierra Leone) 34. Alberto Morales (Nicaragua) 35. Christian Van Heerden (South Africa) ABU 36. Hector David Saldivia (Argentina) 37. Krzysztof Bienias (Poland) 38. Daisuke Nakagawa (Japan) 39. Oliver Guettel (Germany) YOUTH 40. Sherzodbek Alimjanov (Uzbistan) CISBB wbc.. rankings.... so.. are we going to see collazo vs berto II? Mellow I see where you are going with this but I am still waiting for someoen to answer my post about the holding tell it how it is after they see that I am right. I have no problem with admitting when I see it wrong but I am waiting fr someone else to come around and bless me with some k for being right or prove me wrong...lefty:firedevil

That would be a good fight I think fighting 2 lefties in a row is enough for any fighter though Mellow....Still it has to be said he was holding in the Collazo fight as I pointed out in m ylast post. he was clearly hurt and held at the times I mentioned in my post REED....Lefty 1. Luis Collazo (US) 2. Selcuk Aydin (Turkey) INTL 3. Jackson Osei Bonsu (Belgium) 4. Jesus Soto Karass (Mexico) 5. Saul Alvarez (Mexico) NABF 6. Luis Carlos Abregu (Argentina) FESUBOX 7. Juan Urango (Colombia) 8. Rafal Jackiewicz (Poland) 9. Ivan Kirpa (Russia) 10. Miguel Rodriguez (Mexico) 11. Vitaliy Demyanenko (Kazakhstan) ABCO 12. Said Ouali (Morocco) 13. Motoki Sasaki (Japan) OPBF 14. Sebastian Lujan (Argentina) 15. Damian Frias (Cuba) LATINO 16. Carlos Quintana (P. Rico) 17. Zab Judah (US) 18. Joey Hernandez (US) 19. Carlos Baldomir (Argentina) 20. Irving Garcia (P. Rico) 21. Gianluca Branco (Italy) 22. James de la Rosa (Mexico) 23. Carlos Molina (US) 24. Delvin Rodriguez (US) 25. Kell Brook (GB) BBB C 26. Mike Jones (US) 27. Orlando Lora (Mexico) AMERICA 28. Ed Paredes (US) YOUTH interim / CABOFE 29. Antonio Diaz (Mexico) 30. John O'Donnell (GB) COMM 31. Antonin Decaire (Canada) 32. Michel Rosales (Mexico) USNBC/ABMH 33. Leonard Bundu (Sierra Leone) 34. Alberto Morales (Nicaragua) 35. Christian Van Heerden (South Africa) ABU 36. Hector David Saldivia (Argentina) 37. Krzysztof Bienias (Poland) 38. Daisuke Nakagawa (Japan) 39. Oliver Guettel (Germany) YOUTH 40. Sherzodbek Alimjanov (Uzbistan) CISBB wbc.. rankings.... so.. are we going to see collazo vs berto II?

i wish berto gives el indio quintana a break... if he had troubles with these lefties... imagine what quintana would do to him... and the funny thing is that quintana... is not even on the top 5 welterweights That would be a good fight I think fighting 2 lefties in a row is enough for any fighter though Mellow....Still it has to be said he was holding in the Collazo fight as I pointed out in m ylast post. he was clearly hurt and held at the times I mentioned in my post REED....Lefty

i wish berto gives el indio quintana a break... if he had troubles with these lefties... imagine what quintana would do to him... and the funny thing is that quintana... is not even on the top 5 welterweights

Lefty.... he stumbled back on the ropes from being off balance, it was a clean shot that landed.. he tied up.. and went back to boxing immediately when the ref split them up. Berto didnt go into a shell on the ropes, holding his hands up. He immediately went back to boxing............ REED. He TIED him up they got split and then for the rest of the round he was constantly tying him up. I mean to the point that the reff warned him for holding. The HBO announcers especially Lennox made it a point to say it doesnt warrant a warning for holding when you are hurt. he was HURT anyone with two eyes could see that. Maybe not to the point where he could be finished but shaken up enough to just not ant to get hit like that again and start holding. I watched the entire round and I saw him holding. he gets the straight left at 4:04 from there on out at 4:07, 4:22, 4:37, 4:48 he holds. he seems to regain himself here and goes on the attack with Collazo against the ropes then again at 5:05, 5:47 and 5:57 he initiates some more clinches. DAMN REED he was holidng son....Lefty

Lefty.... he stumbled back on the ropes from being off balance, it was a clean shot that landed.. he tied up.. and went back to boxing immediately when the ref split them up. Berto didnt go into a shell on the ropes, holding his hands up. He immediately went back to boxing............ REED.

Reed he was holding on for dear life 85% of the time....Lefty