Who has a better Legacy??? Hopkins or Jones

Pavlik fought 10 pounds over his best weight, and so did Hopkins. Pavlik will move up.

Jones was born with more athletic talent, but Hopkins has probably accomplished more in his career now. If Hopkins wins the cruiserweight title, it will leave no doubt.

And, interestingly enough, Roy and Nard share that same begrudging respect. Good stuff today around these parts. Yeah, I think it might have something to do with their respect for each other. If they hated each other, I think this thread would look a lot different right now. I think it's great that despite everything, they always can have that respect for each other. I don't look forward to either of them having to call it quits, but I can't say I won't smile my ass off if I happen to see them chilling at a fight in Vegas, front row, together, after they've retired. I'd love to see that. Hell, maybe Hopkins could even drop his clean life and enjoy a beer and a cheesesteak for once. :lol1:

I know. I'm shocked. NSB has become a cesspool as of late, and to see a serious, non-offensive debate taking place is trippy. I'm happy to be a part of it. From what I've seen, Roy fans and Bernard fans have nothing but love and respect for both guys. I mean we obviously always pick "our guy" whenever the two are brought up, but none of us are fanboys about it. At the end of the day (if I may steal a line from Joe), we all respect each other. I don't think you can pick many other fighters who's fanbases respect each other like that. Well for one... its because LUCKILY... only the good posters came into this thread... and secondly... because of the first point... we know our boxing... and we know that you cant shit on either fighter... Whoever you have in front... the other is very close behind

I think Mora possibly gets KOed... but if Mora makes him look bad.. then Id say Pavlik is a seriously one dimensional fighter. Of course... not that he isnt already.... If Sergio beats Kelly at 160 (not saying he will), then 'Nard will be looked upon as the "Toto" of boxing. Because he went and pulled the curtain off of that scary ghost. :lol1:

I know. I'm shocked. NSB has become a cesspool as of late, and to see a serious, non-offensive debate taking place is trippy. I'm happy to be a part of it. From what I've seen, Roy fans and Bernard fans have nothing but love and respect for both guys. I mean we obviously always pick "our guy" whenever the two are brought up, but none of us are fanboys about it. At the end of the day (if I may steal a line from Joe), we all respect each other. I don't think you can pick many other fighters who's fanbases respect each other like that. And, interestingly enough, Roy and Nard share that same begrudging respect. Good stuff today around these parts.

True that - although I think Tito would have survived (barely) if daddy hadn't rescued him. Plus, Hops hit Keith Holmes with everything but the ref just a few months earlier and couldn't put him away. But the Hops who fought Council or Jackson, for instance, would've ended Pavlik's career. Either way, who cares, right? Great debate in this thread BTW. I know. I'm shocked. NSB has become a cesspool as of late, and to see a serious, non-offensive debate taking place is trippy. I'm happy to be a part of it. From what I've seen, Roy fans and Bernard fans have nothing but love and respect for both guys. I mean we obviously always pick "our guy" whenever the two are brought up, but none of us are fanboys about it. At the end of the day (if I may steal a line from Joe), we all respect each other. I don't think you can pick many other fighters who's fanbases respect each other like that.

I think Mora possibly gets KOed... but if Mora makes him look bad.. then Id say Pavlik is a seriously one dimensional fighter. Of course... not that he isnt already....

I agree with u bringer.. look people I have no agenda here... and nothing against Bernard... I rooted for Bernard against tarver, and against Pavlik... Just from watching Kelly pavlik perform at 160 lbs... he doesnt perform the SAME as he does above that weight... it is just what i have observed. and again, i have no agenda on either fighter... Oh absolutely. I got you Reed. I know you respect Bernard. Shit, you only placed him 1 spot behind Roy on your top 50. I know you have no agenda, and I'll defend you against anybody who says you do. We're cool. :fing02: Let's just see how Kelly does in the future. Honestly, I won't be surprised if Mora schools him at 160. What would you say then?

2001 was when he beat Trinidad, so yeah I see him knocking kelly out. After kelly is broken down, physically & mentally, bhop finishes him off. Shit, he nearly did at age 43 but he just doesn't have the same power these days as he did then. Pavlik has been down several times in his career. To his credit obviously he always gets back up, but he's been badly hurt. True that - although I think Tito would have survived (barely) if daddy hadn't rescued him. Plus, Hops hit Keith Holmes with everything but the ref just a few months earlier and couldn't put him away. But the Hops who fought Council or Jackson, for instance, would've ended Pavlik's career. Either way, who cares, right? Great debate in this thread BTW.

I agree with u bringer.. look people I have no agenda here... and nothing against Bernard... I rooted for Bernard against tarver, and against Pavlik... Just from watching Kelly pavlik perform at 160 lbs... he doesnt perform the SAME as he does above that weight... it is just what i have observed. and again, i have no agenda on either fighter...

I think you read it wrong.. or maybe i typed it wrong.... The rematch was closer.. because Jermain stepped up his game more, AND the weight increase looked to damper kelly more than it did jermain... this is what i meant Oh, okay. Cool. For a second there I was like "what!?". :lol1: :fing02: I can see your point on this one as well. And I really can't offer any rebuttal because Kelly hasn't fought above 160 yet aside from the Taylor fight and the Hopkins fight. So I'm going to let time be my vindicator. Kelly is going to move up, mark my words. His frame, while skinny, is still too big to support a fighting weight of 160lbs for much longer. His shoulders are broad as hell. And when he does move up, to 168, or 175, whatever. We'll see how he does there, and then we'll know for sure if the weight severely effected him or not. My guess is, he does pretty decently at any weight from 160-175. But he'll always stuggle against quicker, more athletic, and more technical fighters than himself.

I was talking about the first echols fight.. but he did KO daniels... that was my fault... All im saying is it doesnt mean hed KO kelly... it also doest mean he couldnt... but there were lesser fighters than kelly, that Bernard didnt knock out Absolutely. But I still think he would've forced a stoppage against Kelly at 160. Shit, I'd take the 2006 version of Hopkins to stop Pavlik at 160. Or pretty much any version of Hopkins from '97-'06.

So Jermain tried too hard in the rematch? That doesn't make sense to me at all. The weight thing, I can see, even though I disagree with it. But Jermain is the one who wanted it at 166lbs, Kelly was comfortable fighting him again at 160. But the Taylor camp insisted on 166, so I can't see that being the reason he lost that fight. But really? He tried too hard? How the hell do you try too hard in a fight? :lol1: I think you read it wrong.. or maybe i typed it wrong.... The rematch was closer.. because Jermain stepped up his game more, AND the weight increase looked to damper kelly more than it did jermain... this is what i meant

And were basing this off of Kellys fight at 170 lbs.... thats all im saying

See in the second fight... I blame Jermains EXTRA effort, AND the weight increase.... kelly just looked more sluggish the heavier he got... So Jermain tried too hard in the rematch? That doesn't make sense to me at all. The weight thing, I can see, even though I disagree with it. But Jermain is the one who wanted it at 166lbs, Kelly was comfortable fighting him again at 160. But the Taylor camp insisted on 166, so I can't see that being the reason he lost that fight. But really? He tried too hard? How the hell do you try too hard in a fight? :lol1:

the 2008 version was about 1 decent flurry of punches away from stopping him Yeah true - forgot about that - and I was right there for that fight. But, quite honestly, that's just Hopkins. He was just a few moments from stopping Vanderpool too--and most of the fighters who went the distance with him. I'm not sure if the 35+ version stops Pavlik but the 30-33yr old Hops definitely does in brutal fashion.

Hopkins got the TKO against both Echols and Daniels. And he would get it again against a fighter as hittable as Kelly was that night. No question in my mind. He wouldn't knock him out cold (as in not making it to his feet before the 10 count), but he'd get the TKO, the referee would stop it. I was talking about the first echols fight.. but he did KO daniels... that was my fault... All im saying is it doesnt mean hed KO kelly... it also doest mean he couldnt... but there were lesser fighters than kelly, that Bernard didnt knock out

Nah, not the 2001-2004 version. Maybe the 97-99 version. Just sayin... the 2008 version was about 1 decent flurry of punches away from stopping him

Bernard didnt knock out Antuwon Echols, Syd vanderpool, or carl god damn daniels.. and all the sudden hes knocking out Kelly Pavlik? Hopkins got the TKO against both Echols and Daniels. And he would get it again against a fighter as hittable as Kelly was that night. No question in my mind. He wouldn't knock him out cold (as in not making it to his feet before the 10 count), but he'd get the TKO, the referee would stop it.