If it weren't for the Knock Downs, Pacquiao would have lost BOTH fights to Marquez

It might have been a draw, but if Marquez would have avoided the knockdown, then he may have won the round on the official cards giving him the decision. But the fact is he didn't. If JMM fought the wars and fights that Morales and Barrera had, JMM probably wouldn't have the success he have today. Not hating on JMM, i respect him and was very impressed, a shock and awe impressed, the way he beat Diaz.

It might have been a draw, but IF Marquez would have avoided the knockdown, then he MAY have won the round on the official cards giving him the decision. I think that's silly, IF he stayed on his feet he MAY have won the decision. That's a few to many IF's and May's, don't you think?

I am not denying JMM has skills. Yes, he was counter punching Pac but Pac was also hitting JMM with his straight lefts and even rights in both fights. Pac was landing equal or more on those fights. Saying JMM won all rounds after the 3rd in the 1st fight is absurd. Pac, even if his 1 dimensional, keep going forward, throwing and landing power punches, thus winning rounds besides the the 1st 3.

I'm not trying to discredit Manny being able to knockdown JMM. I'm just saying if Marquez could have avoided the knockdowns he would have won. He is a better skilled fighter than Manny, that's all I'm trying to get at. Manny is better in terms of punching power and speed and that was enough for him to get by JMM without a loss, just barely. It is pretty clear that he could not have avoided the punches... You said he was a "better fighter" but in some ways that is subjective. If you want to be objective about it, he was knocked down 4 times and is 0-1-1. This thread is pointless.

cosign.They really do make each other look bad.When they fight other fighters though they blow them away.(Old cas, post nate jdiaz,old delahoya, limited david diaz). Exactly, JMM is probably the only guy that is Manny's size who can present real problems for Manny. And Manny is probably the only fighter who can beat Marquez in the Lightweight divisions (130, 135).

The ONLY difference I had in the re-match was that knock down, so once again IF Marquez had stayed on his feet it would have been a draw. However I thought Manny won the first fight (I have a friend who is a die hard Marquez fan and STILL brings it up HE thinks Marquez won both fights). That's the draw back of having real competing fights, everyone who is invested in a fighter and a fan never score it right, they will always see their guy winning. In close rounds they give it to their guy, or if their guy loses like Hopkins did, they can't admit they got it wrong and give credit (Like my friend thinking Marquez won ether of those fights). It must be the scorecards or the Ref.'s fault because they weren't wrong, they were ROBBED! Instead of saying I was wrong, and he lost. But like someone said there are a lotta IF's in boxing and life. For instance IF my aunt had a set of balls she's be my uncle. It might have been a draw, but if Marquez would have avoided the knockdown, then he may have won the round on the official cards giving him the decision.

Not really fair though, because all of those knockdowns were big, powerful, fast punches, the types of punches Manny throws and tries to land to stop opponents. How can you discredict Manny landing a big punch and sending his opponent to the canvas...espicially when he did it 4 times in 24 rounds. I'm not trying to discredit Manny being able to knockdown JMM. I'm just saying if Marquez could have avoided the knockdowns he would have won. He is a better skilled fighter than Manny, that's all I'm trying to get at. Manny is better in terms of punching power and speed and that was enough for him to get by JMM without a loss, just barely.

I understand what you mean but that's like saying "If he wouldnt have gotten knocked out, he would have won" Logic.

Pacquiao did lose to Erik Morales. True Story. Marquez did lose to Pac. True Story

The ONLY difference I had in the re-match was that knock down, so once again IF Marquez had stayed on his feet it would have been a draw. However I thought Manny won the first fight (I have a friend who is a die hard Marquez fan and STILL brings it up HE thinks Marquez won both fights). That's the draw back of having real competing fights, everyone who is invested in a fighter and a fan never score it right, they will always see their guy winning. In close rounds they give it to their guy, or if their guy loses like Hopkins did, they can't admit they got it wrong and give credit (Like my friend thinking Marquez won ether of those fights). It must be the scorecards or the Ref.'s fault because they weren't wrong, they were ROBBED! Instead of saying I was wrong, and he lost. But like someone said there are a lotta IF's in boxing and life. For instance IF my aunt had a set of balls she's be my uncle.

Not really fair though, because all of those knockdowns were big, powerful, fast punches, the types of punches Manny throws and tries to land to stop opponents. How can you discredict Manny landing a big punch and sending his opponent to the canvas...espicially when he did it 4 times in 24 rounds. I mean think about it, 3 times in one round! He almost stopped Marquez in one round. If they fought under different rules or in a different state, he would have.

If it werent for murad muhammad, pac couldnt have lost to erik true story Pacquiao did lose to Erik Morales. True Story.

If it werent for murad muhammad, pac couldnt have lost to erik true story if it werent for manny's bad socks he would have murdered marquez during their first bout

Manny won the rematch by ONE point and practically lost every round after the opening stanza in the first fight. Manny's power saved him in both fights. In terms of skill, Juan Manuel Marquez is better than Manny and he proved it in both fights. If he would have only been able to stay on his feet, he would have won them BOTH. Not really fair though, because all of those knockdowns were big, powerful, fast punches, the types of punches Manny throws and tries to land to stop opponents. How can you discredict Manny landing a big punch and sending his opponent to the canvas...espicially when he did it 4 times in 24 rounds.

If it werent for murad muhammad, pac couldnt have lost to erik true story

I thought Pac won the 1st fight more clearly than the 2nd. JMM can win if he can take the left. The thing is JMM has been getting wobbled a lot lately, MAB, Juan Diaz, Pacquiao, I even seen him a bit unsteady against Casamayor. And Manny will check that chin if you give him the opportunity. The result is an intriguing fight. I think Marquez can win it if he decides not to trade with Manny in the exchanges, but that's what's made him such a standout recently.

Manny won the rematch by ONE point and practically lost every round after the opening stanza in the first fight. Manny's power saved him in both fights. In terms of skill, Juan Manuel Marquez is better than Manny and he proved it in both fights. If he would have only been able to stay on his feet, he would have won them BOTH. This place is going to shit...thanx!

LOL. SO YOU ARE saying if it werent for the punches the other guy landed...Marquez would have won. Nice. If it werent for all the points the other teams scored on Dallas, they would have gone to the super bowl. If it werent for the other cars driving faster than mine...I Would have won my race. If it werent for all the runs from the other teams, Boston would have won the world series. Lmao, exactly....thats about the dumbest shit i ever read on here

Knockdowns are a part of boxing, a lot of fights could have changed on ifs, if Tommy Hearns had better stamina he would have beaten Leonard, if Charles hadn't gotten knocked out he would have beaten Marciano etc.

No matter how u look at it the knockdowns did happen,thats the biggest fact in those fights,if there is a third fight,it would be interesting to see how Marquez handles the Pacmans power at the bigger weight,or will his chin,again,become his "Achilles heel"?