2008-2009 all-stars of boxing

Fair enough on Pac, but Caballero is still unconvincing. If we go in terms of wins and losses, after Marquez, Lopez is still over him IMO. Their records last year were: Caballero 3-0 3 KOs, Lopez 4-0 4 KOs. Assuming that only the big fights really count, both were 1-0 versus champions. The difference there is that Juan defeated an established champion in PDL, KOing him in 1 round, versus Caballero who outpointed him (not really relevant to last year, but putting matters on perspective). Celestino defeated a young and unproven Steve Molitor, looking dominant, but nowhere near the level of Lopez-PDL. My guess is that you are giving him an edge due to his win over Lorenzo Parra, but I'm not going to give that one so much credit, pairing him along Jonathan Oquendo in terms of competitiveness within the super bantamweight division. Lopez fought a decent fighter in Oquendo, who is a natural 122 pounder, unlike Parra, who is a bloated flyweight. Then again, the division's hype was still Vazquez-Marquez III. JuanMa is still young and will get his just due in time. What other notable fighter has he beaten aside from Ponce? All in all though, he'll be debuting on the p4p lists in the next year when he consistently steps up competition, and I'm almost certain he will surpass ALL of these guys in the future... raf lost 2 or his last 3 but to the same guy... you cant just go by the numbers imho Point taken. Rafa is way ahead of Caballero on my p4p list, but IMO just based on last year and this year, I've gotta reward the guy fighting on the top level who went 3-0 3 KO's before I reward the guy who in that same timespan is 0-1...I agree though, Rafa is the better fighter.. Chagaev? What the hell? Rafael Marquez is miles ahead of Caballero. Margarito shouldn't be mentioned. Chagaev is basically, to me, the least terrible Heavyweight of the bunch, outside of Wlad, of the last 2 years....Who else would you put there? Arreola still has to step up competition, Vitali has only fought once in the last 4 years, and Haye just debuted.......As to Rafa, see above... And Margarito will be mentioned because no one else has ever beaten Miguel Cotto or Kermit Cintron let alone STOPPED both of them, in successive fights no less. Now the handwraps DO cast a serious shadow over that but until it's proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that he loaded for those fights, it would be biased of me to discredit him...

Chagaev? What the hell? Rafael Marquez is miles ahead of Caballero. Margarito shouldn't be mentioned.

I hear you, but.... 2 guys, Pacquiao and Paul Williams CLEARLY belong on the list. It was tough, because they've been moving around in weight, so I basically had to fit them in at divisions the'll most likely be fighting at, plus if the piece circulates and hits the eyes of the non-to-casual boxing fan, it hypes Pac-Hatton.. Caballero has been rolling, and like I said close losses are counted. Rafa is a great fighter and is probably the number 2 guy behind Vasquez, but the fact is, no matter how great the fights were and to who, he lost 2 of his last 3 fights thus Caballero getting the nod for the year... And AM has still done the most outside of Shane Mosley...sans The Mosley fight, it hasn't been proven that he loaded in his wins over Miguel Cotto and Kermit Cintron...You got Clottey, Judah, Cintron, and a few more but who have they beaten in the last year that equals Cotto? raf lost 2 or his last 3 but to the same guy... you cant just go by the numbers imho

I hear you, but.... 2 guys, Pacquiao and Paul Williams CLEARLY belong on the list. It was tough, because they've been moving around in weight, so I basically had to fit them in at divisions the'll most likely be fighting at, plus if the piece circulates and hits the eyes of the non-to-casual boxing fan, it hypes Pac-Hatton.. Caballero has been rolling, and like I said close losses are counted. Rafa is a great fighter and is probably the number 2 guy behind Vasquez, but the fact is, no matter how great the fights were and to who, he lost 2 of his last 3 fights thus Caballero getting the nod for the year... And AM has still done the most outside of Shane Mosley...sans The Mosley fight, it hasn't been proven that he loaded in his wins over Miguel Cotto and Kermit Cintron...You got Clottey, Judah, Cintron, and a few more but who have they beaten in the last year that equals Cotto? Fair enough on Pac, but Caballero is still unconvincing. If we go in terms of wins and losses, after Marquez, Lopez is still over him IMO. Their records last year were: Caballero 3-0 3 KOs, Lopez 4-0 4 KOs. Assuming that only the big fights really count, both were 1-0 versus champions. The difference there is that Juan defeated an established champion in PDL, KOing him in 1 round, versus Caballero who outpointed him (not really relevant to last year, but putting matters on perspective). Celestino defeated a young and unproven Steve Molitor, looking dominant, but nowhere near the level of Lopez-PDL. My guess is that you are giving him an edge due to his win over Lorenzo Parra, but I'm not going to give that one so much credit, pairing him along Jonathan Oquendo in terms of competitiveness within the super bantamweight division. Lopez fought a decent fighter in Oquendo, who is a natural 122 pounder, unlike Parra, who is a bloated flyweight. Then again, the division's hype was still Vazquez-Marquez III.

What a fringe list, Manny hasn't even fought in the LWW division yet. Caballero over Marquez? Margarito? After the plaster fiasco? I hear you, but.... 2 guys, Pacquiao and Paul Williams CLEARLY belong on the list. It was tough, because they've been moving around in weight, so I basically had to fit them in at divisions the'll most likely be fighting at, plus if the piece circulates and hits the eyes of the non-to-casual boxing fan, it hypes Pac-Hatton.. Caballero has been rolling, and like I said close losses are counted. Rafa is a great fighter and is probably the number 2 guy behind Vasquez, but the fact is, no matter how great the fights were and to who, he lost 2 of his last 3 fights thus Caballero getting the nod for the year... And AM has still done the most outside of Shane Mosley...sans The Mosley fight, it hasn't been proven that he loaded in his wins over Miguel Cotto and Kermit Cintron...You got Clottey, Judah, Cintron, and a few more but who have they beaten in the last year that equals Cotto?

Jr. Welterweight: Ricky Hatton, Manny Pacquiao What a fringe list, Manny hasn't even fought in the LWW division yet. Caballero over Marquez? Margarito? After the plaster fiasco?