What you should already know about Plaster!

Get with the program and do your research before making stupid claims. Your average run of the mill casting tape will be cured to full strength in 3-5 min. Also, plaster of paris doesn't "dry out" which is why it can be used to make casting by underwater archeologist's, because its curing process is a chemical reaction, not a process of drying out. Thanks for saving me the trouble of explaining that to Nathan. He did do a few summers "working with plaster" though.....lol

Another very good point... I vote we all shut the hell up and wait for the WBA to launch a formal investigation. Everything else will just be hearsay. Take your own advice! Are you that gullible? I understand giving the man the BOTD but get your argument together 1st! End this thread! Start a new one Nate!

You obviously have no idea how hands are wrapped nor that the knuckles are padded with gauze folded up to 20-30 layers thick. From my understanding the pad on Margarito's knuckles was found to be wet and hardening... Not only that, descriptions have included that it was a plasticish substance, leading me to believe they were using fiberglass casting tape on his knuckles, which like plaster casting tape sets with water. Your arguments simply don't hold water. And your ass simply dont hold liquid.

Look man, this is useless, the point I'm trying to make... is plaster in any way shape or form is not going to set inside of a glove. Plaster only sets if the water is allowed to evaporate from it, allowing it to dry. Not to mention, plaster is exothermic, which means the inside of his gloves would have been ten times hotter than normal, and he'd be sweating ten times more than normal. Neither the WBA, the ref, or either team have released a definite statement as to what it really was. For all you and I know, it could have been Skittles that were taped to his hands. I'm not saying they weren't attempting plaster... but an experiment would have been all it was, it would not have set... the moment it even BEGAN to solidify, every punch Toni threw would have caused it to crack. Get with the program and do your research before making stupid claims. Your average run of the mill casting tape will be cured to full strength in 3-5 min. Also, plaster of paris doesn't "dry out" which is why it can be used to make casting by underwater archeologist's, because its curing process is a chemical reaction, not a process of drying out.

You obviously have no idea how hands are wrapped nor that the knuckles are padded with gauze folded up to 20-30 layers thick. From my understanding the pad on Margarito's knuckles was found to be wet and hardening... Not only that, descriptions have included that it was a plasticish substance, leading me to believe they were using fiberglass casting tape on his knuckles, which like plaster casting tape sets with water. Your arguments simply don't hold water. Look man, this is useless, the point I'm trying to make... is plaster in any way shape or form is not going to set inside of a glove. Plaster only sets if the water is allowed to evaporate from it, allowing it to dry. Not to mention, plaster is exothermic, which means the inside of his gloves would have been ten times hotter than normal, and he'd be sweating ten times more than normal. Neither the WBA, the ref, or either team have released a definite statement as to what it really was. For all you and I know, it could have been Skittles that were taped to his hands. I'm not saying they weren't attempting plaster... but an experiment would have been all it was, it would not have set... the moment it even BEGAN to solidify, every punch Toni threw would have caused it to crack.

Have you ever broken a limb? If you had, you would know the process of building a cast via casting tape. And if you do know the process, you're a dumb **** who posted before he thought. If you think you can build a boxing career getting away with laying layer after layer after friggin layer of dripping wet casting tape around the hands of you boxer, and STILL get the ref to sign off on them as being legit fight after fight after fight, you are a miracle worker. But its just not going to happen like that, not to mention the amount of time it takes for casting tape to set and dry. Before you blindly comment, all I ask is that you give what I'm saying some thought, there is DEFINITE logic because while everyone was quick to label him a cheater, I sat back and thought the whole thing through. Neither Richardson or any of the HBO commentators said "plaster" to begin with. Which is why we need to wait and see. If there was anything at all, I can promise you it wasn't plaster... there have been rumors of boxers using them in gloves since thw early 20's, but no one has EVER been caught using plaster, only hearsay. You obviously have no idea how hands are wrapped nor that the knuckles are padded with gauze folded up to 20-30 layers thick. From my understanding the pad on Margarito's knuckles was found to be wet and hardening... Not only that, descriptions have included that it was a plasticish substance, leading me to believe they were using fiberglass casting tape on his knuckles, which like plaster casting tape sets with water. Your arguments simply don't hold water.

You seem to have no idea what casting tape is. Damn all those people with broken limbs and their crumbling casts. Those things are not durable at all... Have you ever broken a limb? If you had, you would know the process of building a cast via casting tape. And if you do know the process, you're a dumb **** who posted before he thought. If you think you can build a boxing career getting away with laying layer after layer after friggin layer of dripping wet casting tape around the hands of you boxer, and STILL get the ref to sign off on them as being legit fight after fight after fight, you are a miracle worker. But its just not going to happen like that, not to mention the amount of time it takes for casting tape to set and dry. Before you blindly comment, all I ask is that you give what I'm saying some thought, there is DEFINITE logic because while everyone was quick to label him a cheater, I sat back and thought the whole thing through. Neither Richardson or any of the HBO commentators said "plaster" to begin with. Which is why we need to wait and see. If there was anything at all, I can promise you it wasn't plaster... there have been rumors of boxers using them in gloves since thw early 20's, but no one has EVER been caught using plaster, only hearsay.

One final study, just in case anyone is even remotely interested. It was conducted as a result of rumors that Jack Dempsey had loaded gloves: Boxing Illustrated conducted an experiment to test whether it was possible to use plaster of paris successfully under fighting conditions. The results were reported in the May 1964 issue of BI, pp 20-24, 66. Hugh Benbow and Perry Payne (manager and trainer of Cleveland Williams) used plaster of paris on Cleveland's hands and reenacted what Kearns said occurred in Dempsey's dressing room. After 35 minutes of toasting to reenact the 114-degree heat of Toledo that day, Cleveland Williams hit the heavy bag five times. Benbow examined the wraps and found that the plaster had cracked and crumbled. "This stuff." said Cleve, "wouldn't do anybody any good." The Boxing Illustrated test proved beyond a reasonable doubt that the plaster of paris would not have held up after the first punch, it would have crumbled and left chunks in his mitts and every punch thereafter would have been quite painful and there is little doubt he would have broken his hands. The inventor of the product issued a statement as to the impossibility of using plaster of paris without breaking all the bones in the hands. Dempsey’s hands were not broken and he continued to punch with authority with both hands. This alone dispels the idea that Dempsey’s gloves were loaded with plaster of paris. You seem to have no idea what casting tape is. Damn all those people with broken limbs and their crumbling casts. Those things are not durable at all...

riiiiiiiiiight!

Another very good point... I vote we all shut the hell up and wait for the WBA to launch a formal investigation. Everything else will just be hearsay. No, not a very good point at all. That is like saying that hitting your head with a helmet on would crack your skull.

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One final study, just in case anyone is even remotely interested. It was conducted as a result of rumors that Jack Dempsey had loaded gloves: Boxing Illustrated conducted an experiment to test whether it was possible to use plaster of paris successfully under fighting conditions. The results were reported in the May 1964 issue of BI, pp 20-24, 66. Hugh Benbow and Perry Payne (manager and trainer of Cleveland Williams) used plaster of paris on Cleveland's hands and reenacted what Kearns said occurred in Dempsey's dressing room. After 35 minutes of toasting to reenact the 114-degree heat of Toledo that day, Cleveland Williams hit the heavy bag five times. Benbow examined the wraps and found that the plaster had cracked and crumbled. "This stuff." said Cleve, "wouldn't do anybody any good." The Boxing Illustrated test proved beyond a reasonable doubt that the plaster of paris would not have held up after the first punch, it would have crumbled and left chunks in his mitts and every punch thereafter would have been quite painful and there is little doubt he would have broken his hands. The inventor of the product issued a statement as to the impossibility of using plaster of paris without breaking all the bones in the hands. Dempsey’s hands were not broken and he continued to punch with authority with both hands. This alone dispels the idea that Dempsey’s gloves were loaded with plaster of paris.

Who knows man... why did Bernard slander DiBella even AFTER DiBella released him from contract? Lou took him to court and won. Anyways man, I'm not saying that Resto wasn't telling the truth. I'm saying it didn't add up. But regardless of what he said, I just think we need to sit back and wait before we make up our minds about Margarito's worth in the WW division and especially the glove scandal. Yeah we'll have to wait. But regarding plaster there's several examples of plaster of paris being used in wrappings. You might wanna check this thread as well: http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=240175 It mentions a case of a SA fighter: South African boxer Edward Mpofu banned for life for using plaster of paris under gloves during a bout in September http://www.15rounds.com/south-africa...tember-111308/

If it wasn't true why would Resto say such a thing when Panama Lewis already was banned for life? Surely he would gain nothing but peace of mind. Who knows man... why did Bernard slander DiBella even AFTER DiBella released him from contract? Lou took him to court and won. Anyways man, I'm not saying that Resto wasn't telling the truth. I'm saying it didn't add up. But regardless of what he said, I just think we need to sit back and wait before we make up our minds about Margarito's worth in the WW division and especially the glove scandal.

Which is exactly why most at the time remained skeptical of the "plaster" comments. If it wasn't true why would Resto say such a thing when Panama Lewis already was banned for life? Surely he would gain nothing but peace of mind.

Answer this: Why use it? It's a fact that Luis Resto fought with gloves by Panama Lewis at least 3 times. Surely he wouldn't do it if the only thing getting hurt was his hands. Which is exactly why most at the time remained skeptical of the "plaster" comments.

what more proof do u guys want that it would do some serious damage Dude, I spent the last 3 summers of my college days working with plaster and sheetrock. I know that it will do damage. The whole point of the thread was to sit back and wait for a formal investigation. Formal investigations are as close as we get to the truth. I'm very familiar with the Panama Lewis case. I had to damn near write a book on it when I was with Ringside Report. Lewis was charged with the removal of padding from the glove. Thats all! Years later, Resto said that Lewis had also put plaster "UNDER" his wraps. Maybe that was true, maybe it was Resto defaming Lewis as they were mortal enemies at that point. The fact is, the removal of padding was proven, the plaster deal was never proven beyond Resto's word.

i'm talking about p4pkings comment. he states things to matter of factly when he doesn't know shit about shit.

It was one of the first topics discussed last night... He was found guilty of removing padding from gloves, nothing more. It wasn't until years later Resto said that in addition to that, he had put plaster "under his handwraps". If its under the hand wraps, who cares, it won't effect the person getting hit, only the hand of the person throwing the punches. I'm not saying Resto wasn't being honest, I'm just saying, I'll believe plaster can set in a glove during the course of a fight when I see it with my own two eyes. Answer this: Why use it? It's a fact that Luis Resto fought with gloves by Panama Lewis at least 3 times. Surely he wouldn't do it if the only thing getting hurt was his hands.

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=239995&highlight=panama+lewis Resto-Collins: http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=174018&highlight=panama+lewis what more proof do u guys want that it would do some serious damage