Froch near his peak already

Wow! that is some creative interpretation of my post.. -I didn't anywhere admit that Froch looks crap..I said he is awkward and to the armchair boxing fan he might be perceived as crap .. I then went on to explain how he compenstates for his relative hand speed with trickiness.. And that he is in FACT .. not crap.. -I said he knows what his Flaws are.. and doesn't care that he is going to get hit by right hand counters all night long... His over all strategy seems to be to lull his opponent into a false sense of security.. PROVE ME WRONG.. it is no "conspiracy" ..It is simply a strategy based a fighter's Skill set and Weaknesses -Why does his unorthodox style bother you so much??? If he wants to keep his hands low why should you care?? Lots of fighters who fight textbook, get their asses kicked on a regular basis.. They guy is a bit different in his approach.. He is not the 1st..and wont be the last.. Looking good and being good are NOT the same thing.. - In essence, what I am saying is.. it's not me who needs to face the truth.. I am well aware of exactly what Froch brings.. It is you who can't seem to accept that an awkward fighter is able to win with his non textbook style.. - Did I say the guy was unbeatable? Did I say he is the GOAT?? NO.. so fuck off with your conspiracy theories and putting words into my mouth so you can make some half assed argument.. because it bothers you that I appreciate Froch's style and you don't.. -You saying that "armchair fans" might think Froch look like crap is basically admitting that he DOES look like crap, unless one possesses a higher level of knowledge (like you) to interpret his shortcomings otherwise. And there are a lot of people on here who are NOT armchair fans who have noted his flaws as well, without excusing them as "strategy". -PROVE YOU WRONG? This is subjective; you can't prove what his strategy is and I can't prove what it isn't. I'm saying that the more likely scenario is that he has developed bad habits that he hasn't overcome, while you are saying that he is "tricky". -as a fan, I appreciate his unorthodox style... I never said I didn't... it makes for entertaining fights... but I am under no illusions that his flaws aren't real flaws and won't result in him getting exposed one day by a world class opponent. -Again, you call it setting a trap, I call it a flaw, because against a high caliber opponent his "trap" won't work... hence it is flawed. It didn't even work against Pascal, who most people predicted he would KO before the 10th round. Fortunately Carl found a jab which led him to a points victory. -As for Taylor.. Spinks and Ouma are great examples of how easily Taylor can be discouraged... Kelly Pavlik is the best example of how easy it is to discourage Taylor.. and How easy it to beat him even when he is on his game.. Eevn on his game Taylor just does not have Boxing smarts.. He is athletic and skilled.. But he is not a Fighter.. All of his big wins come with controversy and many people saying he lost them.. His tile reign was uninspiring and he lost it to a very limited but smart fighter.. His only good performance was a loss.. to the same limited but smart fighter.. Spinks frustrated Taylor by being a slick, evasive boxer - Carl Froch is not that guy Ouma discouraged Taylor? How's that? By getting pounded for 12 rounds without going down? Pavlik discouraged Taylor? When? You just said his best performance was his decision loss to Pavlik. He looked tired the last two rounds of that fight, but not discouraged. I will agree with you about his boxing smarts, but with the caveat that he has shown good development in his last two fights by staying in the center of the ring, using his jab both for offense and defense, countering accurately, tying up strategically, etc. However, you said he is easily discouraged... and with that, I disagree. Even since leaving Manny Steward, Steward has been adamant that Taylor is a fighter and the meanest guy he's ever trained. His confidence may have taken a hit during his title reign, but if you put any young fighter in against Hopkins twice, Wright, and Pavlik twice, within a 2 1/2 year span, and you are bound to get the same result. You saw the look on Pavlik's face after one fight with Hopkins, right? Some of your criticism of Taylor is accurate, but you are not giving the guy enough credit. It's not as though he got his belt by beating a Pascal or Zuniga or hung onto it by fighting Hausslers and Manfredos.

I would pick Bute, Taylor and Kessler, to outbox him. Andrade vs. Froch would be great, I'd like to see how he would do against that monster, who IMO can't be beaten without excellent footwork and a good jab.

This is priceless... you are basically admitting that the guy looks like a crap fighter... but put forth a conspiracy theory that he is doing it on purpose! If he was that confident in his abilities, and smart enough to plot in such a way... WHY WOULDN'T HE JUST KEEP HIS HANDS UP AND USE HIS ABILITIES IN A WAY THAT DOESN'T RISK HIS CHIN? WHY DOESN'T HE LEARN HOW TO MOVE HIS FEET WITHOUT GETTING TURNED AND OFF BALANCE? For a guy who relies on having his feet set to deliver his power, that would seem like something he'd want to develop. But here you are, so vested in this guy for such a long time now, that you are having to come up with reasons he still has glaring flaws after all these fights in which he should have been developing his craft. And your reason? Because he's setting a trap! OOOOOH!!! Isn't it far more likely that the truth is staring you in the face? That he just hasn't developed some of the basic boxing skills that would improve his game the easy way, instead of doing things the hard way? As for Taylor being easy to discourage... Taylor has shown stamina issues late in fights, yes... but gotten discouraged in the ring? Hardly. Not even against Hopkins, who will frustrate anybody, or Pavlik, who stopped him for the first time in his career. And I certainly cannot see it against Froch, who of everyone Taylor has faced reminds me the most of Jeff Lacy. Wow! that is some creative interpretation of my post.. -I didn't anywhere admit that Froch looks crap..I said he is awkward and to the armchair boxing fan he might be perceived as crap .. I then went on to explain how he compenstates for his relative hand speed with trickiness.. And that he is in FACT .. not crap.. -I said he knows what his Flaws are.. and doesn't care that he is going to get hit by right hand counters all night long... His over all strategy seems to be to lull his opponent into a false sense of security.. PROVE ME WRONG.. it is no "conspiracy" ..It is simply a strategy based a fighter's Skill set and Weaknesses -Why does his unorthodox style bother you so much??? If he wants to keep his hands low why should you care?? Lots of fighters who fight textbook, get their asses kicked on a regular basis.. They guy is a bit different in his approach.. He is not the 1st..and wont be the last.. Looking good and being good are NOT the same thing.. - In essence, what I am saying is.. it's not me who needs to face the truth.. I am well aware of exactly what Froch brings.. It is you who can't seem to accept that an awkward fighter is able to win with his non textbook style.. - Did I say the guy was unbeatable? Did I say he is the GOAT?? NO.. so fuck off with your conspiracy theories and putting words into my mouth so you can make some half assed argument.. because it bothers you that I appreciate Froch's style and you don't.. -As for Taylor.. Spinks and Ouma are great examples of how easily Taylor can be discouraged... Kelly Pavlik is the best example of how easy it is to discourage Taylor.. and How easy it to beat him even when he is on his game.. Eevn on his game Taylor just does not have Boxing smarts.. He is athletic and skilled.. But he is not a Fighter.. All of his big wins come with controversy and many people saying he lost them.. His tile reign was uninspiring and he lost it to a very limited but smart fighter.. His only good performance was a loss.. to the same limited but smart fighter..

So far 24 fighters and trainers.. have all told their fighter to "EXPOSE" his "FLAWS" This is what I mean by.. too subtle.. Everyone knows Froch keeps his left low and is easy to counter with an over the jab right hand.. Froch Knows it too.. See my point.. if he knows it.. isn't it possible that he is not worried about getting hit.. and as you land more often and grow in confidence he just sets you up..???? I have seen the last 12 fights of Froch's career live on TV.. and watched most of the rest recorded.. every fight looks the same and ends the same...The guy is just awkward and so it fools people into thinking he is crap.. I assure you he is not.. Now as for Kessler.. I have always said.. Kessler is the ONE guy Froch should probably avoid.. because YES.. Froch's biggest weakness is Good STRAIGHT punchers..However I doubt it would be a cakewalk and it's entirely possible That Froch could win it.. Froch has been calling out Kess since he beat Henry Porras and did it faster and more brutally than Kessler did.. so at least we know Froch doesn't fear Kess.. Taylor??? give me a break.. he has all the skills needed.. but doesn't know how to use them.. and I predict he would get stopped by the 8th round.. Like Zab Judah.. Taylor is just too easy to discourage This is priceless... you are basically admitting that the guy looks like a crap fighter... but put forth a conspiracy theory that he is doing it on purpose! If he was that confident in his abilities, and smart enough to plot in such a way... WHY WOULDN'T HE JUST KEEP HIS HANDS UP AND USE HIS ABILITIES IN A WAY THAT DOESN'T RISK HIS CHIN? WHY DOESN'T HE LEARN HOW TO MOVE HIS FEET WITHOUT GETTING TURNED AND OFF BALANCE? For a guy who relies on having his feet set to deliver his power, that would seem like something he'd want to develop. But here you are, so vested in this guy for such a long time now, that you are having to come up with reasons he still has glaring flaws after all these fights in which he should have been developing his craft. And your reason? Because he's setting a trap! OOOOOH!!! Isn't it far more likely that the truth is staring you in the face? That he just hasn't developed some of the basic boxing skills that would improve his game the easy way, instead of doing things the hard way? As for Taylor being easy to discourage... Taylor has shown stamina issues late in fights, yes... but gotten discouraged in the ring? Hardly. Not even against Hopkins, who will frustrate anybody, or Pavlik, who stopped him for the first time in his career. And I certainly cannot see it against Froch, who of everyone Taylor has faced reminds me the most of Jeff Lacy.

So far 24 fighters and trainers.. have all told their fighter to "EXPOSE" his "FLAWS" This is what I mean by.. too subtle.. Everyone knows Froch keeps his left low and is easy to counter with an over the jab right hand.. Froch Knows it too.. See my point.. if he knows it.. isn't it possible that he is not worried about getting hit.. and as you land more often and grow in confidence he just sets you up..???? I have seen the last 12 fights of Froch's career live on TV.. and watched most of the rest recorded.. every fight looks the same and ends the same...The guy is just awkward and so it fools people into thinking he is crap.. I assure you he is not.. Now as for Kessler.. I have always said.. Kessler is the ONE guy Froch should probably avoid.. because YES.. Froch's biggest weakness is Good STRAIGHT punchers..However I doubt it would be a cakewalk and it's entirely possible That Froch could win it.. Froch has been calling out Kess since he beat Henry Porras and did it faster and more brutally than Kessler did.. so at least we know Froch doesn't fear Kess.. Taylor??? give me a break.. he has all the skills needed.. but doesn't know how to use them.. and I predict he would get stopped by the 8th round.. Like Zab Judah.. Taylor is just too easy to discourage i know exactly what you mean, i understand where you are coming from that the flaws in carl's game are so obvious and yet he continues to win, he entices his opponents into thinking they have a shot on, that they can tag him in the end they move in and end up setting themselves up for a punch. but with all due respect to his previous opponents he is now stepping up his fight game and his level of opposition, a quick look through his resume and onnly robin reid is noticeable and even then it was a past his prime, over the hill robin reid with alot of wear and tear. if he thinks he can get away with what he has done before against top level fighters then he is mistaken. i agree with you that kess is froch's kryptonite, he is a straight puncher with good power and not a half bad chin. froch however is still dangerous in this fight he can still hurt kess to the body and i believe if they do fight he will score a KD or hurt kess sometime in the fight. but im gonna bank on kess's speed and counterpunching skills to see him through. as for taylor i think you slightly under rate him, i dont think hed do good against froch, froch is too awakward for him but if taylor is hungry and motivated then you never know.

no i agree wth you welter skelter froch does some very cute things in the ring and thats why hes hard to fight against. but as the thread starter pointed out his flaws are just too obvious, this was the first ime that he was facing a good fighter someone on his level and although he won, if i was kess or ven taylor i wouldn't be quaking in my boots. froch was constantly relying on one punch power to take out and hurt jean pascal, his punches are loopy and awakward they come from everywhere and anywhere but what happens when you meet a guy with a tough chin. thats what happened last night, and froch couldn't string his power punches togther. thats why when they did tear it up pascal actually looked better, he wasn't landing the stronger blows but was landing more often and often the cleaner shots. froch imo has his left hand too low and is too slow as well. kess would just make him eat his jab all night long. if they brawl kess wins as long as he is not tagged to cleanly and if they box well then its going to be even more cleear cut for kess. So far 24 fighters and trainers.. have all told their fighter to "EXPOSE" his "FLAWS" This is what I mean by.. too subtle.. Everyone knows Froch keeps his left low and is easy to counter with an over the jab right hand.. Froch Knows it too.. See my point.. if he knows it.. isn't it possible that he is not worried about getting hit.. and as you land more often and grow in confidence he just sets you up..???? I have seen the last 12 fights of Froch's career live on TV.. and watched most of the rest recorded.. every fight looks the same and ends the same...The guy is just awkward and so it fools people into thinking he is crap.. I assure you he is not.. Now as for Kessler.. I have always said.. Kessler is the ONE guy Froch should probably avoid.. because YES.. Froch's biggest weakness is Good STRAIGHT punchers..However I doubt it would be a cakewalk and it's entirely possible That Froch could win it.. Froch has been calling out Kess since he beat Henry Porras and did it faster and more brutally than Kessler did.. so at least we know Froch doesn't fear Kess.. Taylor??? give me a break.. he has all the skills needed.. but doesn't know how to use them.. and I predict he would get stopped by the 8th round.. Like Zab Judah.. Taylor is just too easy to discourage

no i agree wth you welter skelter froch does some very cute things in the ring and thats why hes hard to fight against. but as the thread starter pointed out his flaws are just too obvious, this was the first ime that he was facing a good fighter someone on his level and although he won, if i was kess or ven taylor i wouldn't be quaking in my boots. froch was constantly relying on one punch power to take out and hurt jean pascal, his punches are loopy and awakward they come from everywhere and anywhere but what happens when you meet a guy with a tough chin. thats what happened last night, and froch couldn't string his power punches togther. thats why when they did tear it up pascal actually looked better, he wasn't landing the stronger blows but was landing more often and often the cleaner shots. froch imo has his left hand too low and is too slow as well. kess would just make him eat his jab all night long. if they brawl kess wins as long as he is not tagged to cleanly and if they box well then its going to be even more cleear cut for kess.

WOW for such a slow puncher.. he sure fucking lands a lot of hurtful punches.. I realise some people have never had a chance to see Froch before last night..But he always looked the way he looked last night.. I agree that his punches seem telgraphed.. SO why do they land..??? because they are slightly off angle... and his reach is deceptive.. you THINK you are out of range..But you are not.. Froch is also good at changing target mid punch.. he starts High ..But connects low.. He starts low but connects high.. Froch's Skills are far too subtle for an armchair Boxing fanboy to understand..

Kessler couldnt floor Calzaghe who got put on his arse by old Jones, and Hopkins. How is he going to KO Froch, with that monster chin? I don't know who would win out of Kessler and Froch, but it is not clear cut. Nobody floors Calzaghe. Well, if they do, he gets up and wins. Happens every time. Joe is too good. Froch isn't anywhere near his peak. He's had only 24 fights, FFS. 100% free webcam site! | Awesome chicks and it is absolutely free! | Watch free live sex cam - easy as 1-2-3

He's past his peak IMO. Physically he looks slower and less mobile than he did a couple of years ago. I'd have Kessler ahead of him by a mile. I agree 100%, i think his peak has been and gone he looked slow and past his best last night for me.

Well done to Froch for getting the title but all in all his limitations are too plain for all to see at the highest levels. Both men were game with great chins but Pascal didnt have the smarts to get at FRoch by any other way than lunging in with very messy attacks that left him exposed time and again. Froch doesnt throw enough leather and in one round i counted 21 punches thrown (i think the 6th). He is a young man and at his age and this weight needs to have far more mobility and speed of punch. He seems ponderous and i dont see how he can improve that style. Kessler is a bit like Froch - only with smarts! Kessler hits as hard but has a better defence, better jab and better all round movement. Kessler would probably stop Froch and i think that Taylor would be too fast and far to intelligent for Froch to be able to keep up with. I think Kessler and Taylor would definately fancy a piece of him after seeing how open he is. Its not just about landing big shots, as Pascal did, and a good boxer would just box him into bewilderment. Froch would fancy the big pay day against Calzaghe but i think its fair to say that there is a huge gulf in class between the two and would be a step down for Joe. Froch would be behind most of the middleweights from Britain in the last 20 years including Benn, Watson, Eubank, Calzaghe (of course) and probably even Bomber Graham. Fair play to him though for making the most of what he HAS got. Kessler couldnt floor Calzaghe who got put on his arse by old Jones, and Hopkins. How is he going to KO Froch, with that monster chin? I don't know who would win out of Kessler and Froch, but it is not clear cut.

He's past his peak IMO. Physically he looks slower and less mobile than he did a couple of years ago. I'd have Kessler ahead of him by a mile.

Froch is one of the oldest active fighters at the top of that division.