Here is the rules that matter in the bute fight!!!!!!!

Being aggressive isn't gonna help your point. Being respectful of other people is a great quality. Bute was exhausted, that's for sure, but he wasn't stunned really. If you click on your own link, and watch what Bute does once he's down, you'll see him look at his corner, then get up, then yes, his arms are on the ropes and yes he rests on the corner of the ring. My point is that you can't know that he would not have been able to stand at the end of the count if the ref had continued his count. But when he saw the ref turning to talk to Andrade, of course he stood where he was. Tha doesn't mean he couldn't have stood before. bute was done! do you watch many fights? he was bouncing of the ropes which in and of it self should have been ruled kd's, and than got a huge kd, got a long rest, stood up, and was held up by the ropes. he was in no shape to stand, or continue without aid by the ropes. stop the nonsense. there is not debat. every sports page, and site says he was given a gift, but you are right, and everyone else wrong? learn the game.

Bute was exhausted, that's for sure, but he wasn't stunned really. If you click on your own link, and watch what Bute does once he's down, you'll see him look at his corner, then get up, then yes, his arms are on the ropes and yes he rests on the corner of the ring. My point is that you can't know that he would not have been able to stand at the end of the count if the ref had continued his count. But when he saw the ref turning to talk to Andrade, of course he stood where he was. Tha doesn't mean he couldn't have stood before. Bute fought a good fight almost perfect . . . in the 12th ya he was tired and thats what opened him up, but the expression on his face at the end of the fight wasnt 'man i'm tired' it was 'where the **** am i'. he was on queer street, eyes everywhere and no legs whatsoever. you're wrong and kidding yourself if you think he was only 'tired and stunned' he was still out of it for at least 10 sec after the 24 sec count.

hey mentally challenged dimwittio he had arms stretchout holding himself up by ropes at beginning of count then he was leaning on the ropes at end of count 24 SECONDS LATER out on his feet! WHAT DOENT YOU UNDERSTAND! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGM6WAfosj0&eurl=http://www.livefight.com/news/andrade-robbed-of-ko-victory---video_716.html Being aggressive isn't gonna help your point. Being respectful of other people is a great quality. Bute was exhausted, that's for sure, but he wasn't stunned really. If you click on your own link, and watch what Bute does once he's down, you'll see him look at his corner, then get up, then yes, his arms are on the ropes and yes he rests on the corner of the ring. My point is that you can't know that he would not have been able to stand at the end of the count if the ref had continued his count. But when he saw the ref turning to talk to Andrade, of course he stood where he was. Tha doesn't mean he couldn't have stood before.

Yessir, he got like an 18 second count and he was still being held up by the ropes. Then we simply don't have the same definition of "being held up by the ropes". Once he's up and faces the referee (which is to say after 8-9 seconds), I don't see it as "being held up". And still if you say it was "being held up", you can't know if he really needed the ropes or if he just used them without needing to, and because the ref wasn't in front of him.

With those rules he lost the fight, it was over 10 seconds before he was standing with no support from the ropes. Yessir, he got like an 18 second count and he was still being held up by the ropes.

Of course there are holes in the rule. The problem is that there are holes in 90% of the rules and laws. We just don't know until something nobody thought about happens. And to be honest, it is impossible to think about every possibility. We just have to live with that, unfortunately. agreed. but you will agree also that rules that could affect a boxer's security must be looked at first....you seem to downplay this crucial element by citing percentage of regulations that have holes in them. security and well being must be primordial. and in this case, the ref has too much discretion to play with a boxer's life. especially if one is from his hometown!

studying law? then you know how many holes rule 6 not only has...but creates! I am so on the fence about this one. Librado deserved better than losing on a technicality. he took everything bute threw at him and the difference between knock out and knock down and knock out and technical knockout, and standing 8 count, and standing up with gloves off the floor....beat him that night, not bute.... Of course there are holes in the rule. The problem is that there are holes in 90% of the rules and laws. We just don't know until something nobody thought about happens. And to be honest, it is impossible to think about every possibility. We just have to live with that, unfortunately.

Right, but if it was possible to eliminate every single grey area, there would be no courts at all! And I wouldn't be studying law!! studying law? then you know how many holes rule 6 not only has...but creates! I am so on the fence about this one. Librado deserved better than losing on a technicality. he took everything bute threw at him and the difference between knock out and knock down and knock out and technical knockout, and standing 8 count, and standing up with gloves off the floor....beat him that night, not bute....

exactly why it's the rules' fault. there should never be valid arguments by both sides in a fight of such magnitude. Right, but if it was possible to eliminate every single grey area, there would be no courts at all! And I wouldn't be studying law!!

for shame, and I beileve the IBF has an obligation to explain to Librado Andrade HIMSELF EXACTLY why he lost. for god's sake he deserves to know.

I agree with you, and that's the reason why I say there wasn't a good or a bad decision for the ref. There are valid arguments by both sides in this situation. exactly why it's the rules' fault. there should never be valid arguments by both sides in a fight of such magnitude.

I agree 100%, but the problem I have with this rule is that the ref knows it...and towards the end of the fight he can become more lenient, saying to himself...well....he's won 10 of 11 esily....all he has to do is get by the next 30 seconds. should i take the title away from him??? this reasoning is happening in split seconds. any way he applies it will create controversy. i can jsust imagine how many things must go through the refs mind He's getting pretty beat up this kid is looking pretty bad arms are down. gotta think about stoppage but the clock is winding down, and all he has to do is get up shit, andrade's really got him cornered. bute's down...do i start the count or wave it off? rules say he's ok if he stands up...any way.....there's no time left. what do i do stop it and i can get mauled wave it off....but what if bute, who won 10 rounds of 11, can make it to the bell? is Andrade out of his corner? bute went right to the neutral corner with his arms around the ropes when i called that slip a knockdown...what's andrade doing etc. All that and lots more in like 20 seconds time. Didn't matter though...Bute got up, and according to the half-assed written rules he's the winner. IBF president Muhammad said publicly that the ref did his job, there was NO controversy, and GBP will have to produce way more to the IBF than the dvd copy of the fight they provided. I agree with you, and that's the reason why I say there wasn't a good or a bad decision for the ref. There are valid arguments by both sides in this situation.

The reason why the downed fighter doesn't have to be fit to box is that he can't suffer more punishment until the next round. So he has time to recover and if he can't, his corner can stop the fight. That rule doesn't put him in immediate danger. That being said, I wouldn't be unduly upset if it was rewritten. I agree 100%, but the problem I have with this rule is that the ref knows it...and towards the end of the fight he can become more lenient, saying to himself...well....he's won 10 of 11 esily....all he has to do is get by the next 30 seconds. should i take the title away from him??? this reasoning is happening in split seconds. any way he applies it will create controversy. i can jsust imagine how many things must go through the refs mind He's getting pretty beat up this kid is looking pretty bad arms are down. gotta think about stoppage but the clock is winding down, and all he has to do is get up shit, andrade's really got him cornered. bute's down...do i start the count or wave it off? rules say he's ok if he stands up...any way.....there's no time left. what do i do stop it and i can get mauled wave it off....but what if bute, who won 10 rounds of 11, can make it to the bell? is Andrade out of his corner? bute went right to the neutral corner with his arms around the ropes when i called that slip a knockdown...what's andrade doing etc. All that and lots more in like 20 seconds time. Didn't matter though...Bute got up, and according to the half-assed written rules he's the winner. IBF president Muhammad said publicly that the ref did his job, there was NO controversy, and GBP will have to produce way more to the IBF than the dvd copy of the fight they provided.

think of how much could have been avoided with a rule like "contestant must be within 2 feet of the neutral corner when knockdown occurs"....or if Commissions would mark lines of demarcation at each corner where the contestant must retreat and cannot traverse when a knockdown occurs. Second, add to rule 6 that the contestant must rise "unaided by any object or person". Andrade lost the title because there wasn't enough words in rule 6. Bute retained it because there were too few. This said, I can't believe he got up at 8. Phenomenal. Rocky moment...and he never got props. I couldn't agree more, except that I don't mind if the boxer rise "unaided by any object or person", as long as he can stand without such help at the end of the count. I thought about Rocky when I saw him get up too. Only few boxers could've done the same.

Determination of a Knockdown It shall be ruled a knockdown when, as a result of a legal blow or series of legal blows, a contestant: 1. Touches the floor with any part of the body other than his/her feet; 2. Is being held up by the ropes, or 3. Is hanging on, through, or over the ropes without the ability to protect him/herself and cannot fall to the floor. Knock Down Eight Count In the case of a knock down, the eight (8) count is mandatory. A contestant who is knocked out shall be suspended for a minimum period of sixty days and a contestant who loses by technical knock out shall be suspended for a minimum period of thirty days from participating in any boxing activity. A referee may terminate the count and the bout at any point when he/she decides that the safety of the downed boxer is at risk. In the event of a knockdown, the downed boxer will be allowed a ten count in which to rise unassisted. Should a contestant arise before the count of ten is reached and go back down immediately without being struck by the opponent, the referee shall resume the count where he/she left off. A referee may count a contestant out who is hanging defensively on, through, or over the ropes or on the floor. Exactly what I thought when I saw the fight, the ropes were holding Bute up. He was gone. The ref didnt even have him step forward he just grabbed his wrists as if he was OK.

I feel for all you Andrade fans. The ref was incompetent and his inexperience really showed. But he didn't lose that fight for Andrade...his strict interpretation of Rule 6 did...and for this I blame the IBF rules. Rule 6 trumps the rest of the knock out/technical knockout literature in the IBF rules. That's the problem. Rule six has to be rewritten. This said, Bute won the fight, but only because of an ambiguous rule that if repeated could kill a fighter next time. The reason why the downed fighter doesn't have to be fit to box is that he can't suffer more punishment until the next round. So he has time to recover and if he can't, his corner can stop the fight. That rule doesn't put him in immediate danger. That being said, I wouldn't be unduly upset if it was rewritten.

think of how much could have been avoided with a rule like "contestant must be within 2 feet of the neutral corner when knockdown occurs"....or if Commissions would mark lines of demarcation at each corner where the contestant must retreat and cannot traverse when a knockdown occurs. Second, add to rule 6 that the contestant must rise "unaided by any object or person". Andrade lost the title because there wasn't enough words in rule 6. Bute retained it because there were too few. This said, I can't believe he got up at 8. Phenomenal. Rocky moment...and he never got props.

I feel for all you Andrade fans. The ref was incompetent and his inexperience really showed. But he didn't lose that fight for Andrade...his strict interpretation of Rule 6 did...and for this I blame the IBF rules. Rule 6 trumps the rest of the knock out/technical knockout literature in the IBF rules. That's the problem. Rule six has to be rewritten. This said, Bute won the fight, but only because of an ambiguous rule that if repeated could kill a fighter next time.

sorry i meant the source for the rules governing the fight - looked like a selective cut and paste job. Even if Bute won by the rules, Andrade deserves an instant rematch. http://www.ibf-usba-boxing.com/ Bout Rules on the right menu (under Rules)

That is what I think too, but people here keep attacking what I have to say so I stopped saying that awhile ago. Also, bute wasn't out of it like people thought. You can see right before the bell rings in the gif image that bute is about to get right back into the fight by moving forward. Was he hurt? No doubt, but he did beat the count. If people are attacking you for what you say...ignore it, and consider the source. I agree he beat the count. When I watched the fight live, it didn't seem like he did, but after timing it I know he did beat the count, but that's not the bigger issue. For me, the real problem is the favoritism the ref showed, not just in the last 2 rounds by pulling them apart a few times when Bute was in trouble, but throughout the fight. The point deduction, the failure to warn Bute for excessive holding (and he really was grabbing on alot, especially in the last 4 rounds), the general favoritism he showed toward Bute. I felt that Andrade would've gotten to him a round or two sooner had that not taken place. Additionally, any other ref I know if would've stopped the fight when Bute was in such bad shape during the last 30 seconds or so in the 12th. At the very least, they'd have started the count when he went stumbling backwards acrosss the ring and bounced off the ropes, gave him the 8 count, and then let Andrade back at him, which would've almost certainly resulted in a KO win. Nothing we can do now, of course, so not much point in belaboring it, but it's one of those things in this sport that will eat at you....injustice, that can't be righted. I saw enough of that shit in the military in places like Panama, Grenada, Afghanistan, Kuwait...it burns my ass when I see that shit in the civilized world, where people know better.