How can it logically be said.......

Fair enough. I think its a little tough to tell due to the fact that Mikkel has only been in there against one top guy but I wouldn't go writing Kessler off. He has a great deal of ability and is technically very solid. Perhaps a little one dimensional but still a very good and potentially great fighter IMO. I agree .

No no no I dont dislike Taylor, I was pulling for him when he fought Hopkins the first time. I just think JT might be more hype than what he's delivered. He fought some really good fighters but almost lost to Hop, Winky and the smaller Spinks then Kelly put him to sleep. So I think JT has alot to do if he wants to live up to his initial hype. Fair enough.

I can think of a scenario, how about Kessler < gift decisions than JT Do you feel Kessler can beat Taylor?

that Jermain Taylor is way overrated, shit, a paper champ, etc...., yet Calzaghes win over Bhop is a good win? Especially when Taylor beat him 3 years earlier, and unanimously? Not saying if Taylor is better or inferior to Joe, trying to flame, or percieving a triangle theory. however, logically how some here can make these type of statements, and defend it needs some serious justification that i am not finding! i have seen this talked about far to often lately, and i wanna know how in the hell it is even conceived? to say that bhop is a good win, taylor is average at best, and kessler is p4p all in the same theory baffles the fuck out of me. OK, I think kind of like this, but not exactly, so here goes. Jermain Taylor beating B-Hop were GREAT wins, but have two things against them, 1) Taylor didn't really do anything special and 2) Hopkins was getting on a bit. An objective assessment of the two fights, IMO, shows Taylor winning pretty much by default after Hopkins simply did not do enough to win, and looking pretty goddamn shaky at points in both. I think this is a fair assessment. Taylor then went on to beat Spinks and Ouma, both second tier boxers in championship terms, then lose to Pavlik twice, in the first fight looking pretty goddamn awful, and in the second while performing better, showing nothing to suggest he is the "great" boxer some believe him to be. He's not shit, but to me and many others he does not look like a worldbeater. OK, Calzaghe v Hopkins. This depends on how good a win you think it is. On the one hand, Hopkins was The Ring champ and agreed by most here and elsewhere to be the best LHW boxer. His wins over Winky and Tarver showed that the lower workrate required at LHW as opposed to MW suited him. Hopkins had beat the guys and won the belt. On the other hand, he was 43, did have less stamina than he used to, and had those Taylor losses on his record. For me the fair assessment is that when Joe beat Hopkins he was not the boxer he used to be, but remained elite and was the best of a fading LHW division. Considering Calzaghe's critics routinely denounce him as a fraud, beating this guy, with the added factors of it being your first fight in the US and at a new weight which is really too big for you, and as you begin to slip yourself, has to be regarded as a good win, especialy since although Calzaghe did not deliver his best boxing, he did dominate most of the fight the best way that was possible in the circumstances, by out-and-out outhustling B-Hop, which in fairness, Taylor did not do to the same degree, he did struggle with Hopkins more than Joe did. On Kessler, I'm not sure how highly people rate him P4P, but I would have him in the top 20 or so. Kessler has never beaten a marquee name of the Taylor variety like Pavlik has, but has a vey underrated resume. His run of wins from Siaca to Andrade essentially took out every credible challenger and champion in the SMW division other than Calzaghe and Lacy, and what made it more impressive was the way he did it: easily, displaying a lot of talent and style. This goes some way to explaining his P4P ranking (he was #9 here at the time) since perceived talent does contribute. He then fought Calzaghe in Calzaghe's backyard and despite losing, still looked a very good boxer, again compare this with Taylor, who rarely does. I think you have to throw in the fact that his only loss was to Cal, whereas Taylor's were to the (at the time, relatively) unheralded Pavlik, which again is quite a big difference. So its not that Taylor is shit, B-Hop is a win of unsurpassable quality or that Kessler is an all-time-great, it's more that Taylor is probably not the boxer his wins over Hopkins made some think he was, Calzaghe's win over Hopkins was the best he could have had at the time but should have happened earlier and Kessler is a very talented boxer who looks to many to be a bit better than Taylor and is on the fringes of the P4P. Hope that makes sense.

Also, I'd like to mention that I am also a fan of Pavlik but a lot of people forget the 2nd round of his first fight with Taylor.

Ummm..... yes. Skill/ability-wise : Taylor > Kessler Accomplishments : Taylor > Kessler I like Kessler but I can't think of a scenario where Kessler > Taylor Fair enough. I think its a little tough to tell due to the fact that Mikkel has only been in there against one top guy but I wouldn't go writing Kessler off. He has a great deal of ability and is technically very solid. Perhaps a little one dimensional but still a very good and potentially great fighter IMO.

Oh so what you're saying is JT is awesome. Ah I guess you missed the Pavlik fights :nutkick: His losses to Pavlik don't make him a bum. You sound like you just plainly dislike him.

You rate Taylor over Kessler? Ummm..... yes. Skill/ability-wise : Taylor > Kessler Accomplishments : Taylor > Kessler I like Kessler but I can't think of a scenario where Kessler > Taylor

What? I'm saying people have no idea what they're talking about when they say JT is shit and he's inferior to Kessler. Cunt. LOL You rate Taylor over Kessler?

Ah sorry moron I agree JT isn't that great he had a few lucky breaks against good fighters. My mistake :asshole: Are you Welsh?

Ah sorry moron I agree JT isn't that great he had a few lucky breaks against good fighters. My mistake :asshole: What? I'm saying people have no idea what they're talking about when they say JT is shit and he's inferior to Kessler. Cunt. LOL

What are you talking about? Are you saying that there's no possible way Lacy could stop JT? Are you saying Lacy has no power? Before you open your mouth think...:fing26: No, moron. I was referring to people saying Taylor is shit and that he's inferior to Kessler.

Fair enough I just think it's short sighted to ignore the chance a once highly touted puncher like Lacy has. If this fight happend 3 years ago I bet alot of you saying Lacy's done would be saying this fight is a pick 'em. Yeah but he is shot now. Watch the fight against Mendoza, he looked terrible. Or the fight against Manfredo. Both of those showed me Lacy doesn't have enough left to hang with elite fighters or even those near the top.

lacy has a punchers chance, but thats it. he has shown nothing else in his last few fights to say otherwise.

Maybe he doesnt but the last thing to go on a fighter is his punch. Maybe JT will freeze up if Lacy catches him early. I'm not saying Taylor shouldnt win but people acting like Lacy has zero chance is stupid on their part. He might have a punchers chance but that is about it. I would be very shocked if he pulled it off, given Lacy's last two fights. I also question if Lacy even has the pop to stop Taylor, he landed plenty on Manfredo and Mendoza and couldn't get stoppages in 12 and 10 round fights. Personally I would give Lacy a 1 in 10 chance at best against JT right now.

What are you talking about? Are you saying that there's no possible way Lacy could stop JT? Are you saying Lacy has no power? Before you open your mouth think...:fing26: Lacy is completely done. He is now the equivalent of a B level fighter. He doesn't belong in the same ring as Jermain Taylor.

People who say shit like that are fucking idiots.

If Lacy crushes JT then it's over. think we both know that is not happening!

Calzaghe's performance against Lacy put him on the top stage... that was his first big fight. He also had a good performance against another really good fighter in Kessler. Taylor has not looked good, or lost against every single fighter he has fought since he stepped up to championship level fights. Maybe you could make the argument that he looked okay against Ouma, but... that's still a decent performance at best against a 154 pounder. Calzaghe has dazzled us at least once, and Taylor has not. that may be true, but lets not forget taylor is still in his late 20's, and joe has a jump on him in terms of time in the sport to do that dazzling! i feel the best of taylor is yet to be seen.

Calzaghe's performance against Lacy put him on the top stage... that was his first big fight. He also had a good performance against another really good fighter in Kessler. Taylor has not looked good, or lost against every single fighter he has fought since he stepped up to championship level fights. Maybe you could make the argument that he looked okay against Ouma, but... that's still a decent performance at best against a 154 pounder. Calzaghe has dazzled us at least once, and Taylor has not.