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Crillz - Good thread btw.. I posted this on another thread, but it is better suited here. >> I've been a Margarito fan for years. That being said..I always liked Cotto as well. Both have a great work ethic. Cotto is "heart attack serious" in his approach to training and the sport. Margarito has the determination to get the respect he always should have had. I have watched that fight five times now. Cotto hit Margarito with terrific shots..punches and combos that would clearly have taken many others out and goodnight. But they just didn't have any effect on Margarito..so much so, that not only ddin't they hurt him, but most importantly they took nothing away from his stamina. Amazing to see; especially after the fact. Margarito, did not back up at all the entire fight..11 rounds of coming forward every round; that's gruesome pressure However, if Cotto could have lasted the fight, he would have lost by two maybe three points. So in the end a respectable showing, even though Margarito took him down. If anyone gets the chance to see the fight again (HBO on demand), after the second knockdown, Cotto looks at his corner and shakes his head indicating " I'm through..no more"..then the towel comes in. I'd like to see a rematch..would be a lot of drama built into that..IMHO. << Every fighter has a true mental image of himself..all the BS and PR aside. If Cotto's was that of unbeatable, "I'm your nightmare", that image has been broken. It remains to be seen if he can if he can put that back together again. Margarito has been fighting professionally since he was 16 I think..avoided by the big money fighters and fights most of his career. A close decision loss to Williams does nothing to change his world. He just vindicated himself in the eyes of the boxing world. In a rematch, there would be two very different mindsets in that ring. For me that's where the drama is.

you really think so? I don't know I just think that due to the obvious mistakes he made I think with a reformed game plan and a fresh crack at Tony I think he'll be better prepared to win.. the part I put in bold is my feelings about this whole ordeal wrapped in a nutshell, very well put accept I don't think he fought a dumb fight he just fought the wrong fight, see even with so many mistakes he was still making Tony's head jerk back every second, it was his fight to win all he had to do was Box correctly and stay off them ropes where the hardest punches landed. if he can do this then I smell a trilogy.. btw I don't think this will change Cotto, I think he gonna get stronger. he now knows his breaking point now so I think he'll be ready fight well enough not to reach it again. 100 the only reason why I say he was dumb because he didn't box. he counterpunched and really threw some bombs back when he got hit, but he circled maragrito in 1 direction all night and didn't punch to slow margarito pursuit when fleeing. everytime Cotto threw a punch he had set his feet. after 6 rds of beautiful hard shots and the guy still coming strong...u gotta atleast think i'm not going to KO this dude so i'm jab and score pts to get this win. At times in the fight I felt like Cotto actually thought he could hurt or would hurt him at any moment. it;s so much easier to slip punches and counter in the middle of the ring and it wasn't like margarito was really forcing him to the ropes, a lot of times he was simply going to the ropes. i just thoguht he fought a dumb fight.

Too add to that, Steward really turned Wlad into a defensive minded fighter. He doesn't get hit with those wild clean shots anymore. He short and composed with his punches, and doesn't give away those oppurtunities for big punches very much anymore. Now we haven't seem him in there with a banger just yet since Steward came on board, but I think we have seen HUGE strides in his defensive ability since Steward came on board. Also Roach with Toney, and also look at Pac. He used to be a brawler, one dimensional. Straight forward with hard left hand straight and a mean one two. Now Pac gives fighters angles, baits them into throwing a wide looping shot and counters with great accuracy with his left hand straight. He's not great defensively but he's made HUGE strides defensively because iof Roach

this is the talk that I mean. I think that Evangelisto is a great trainer in terms of being able to bring some fighters up the ranks and what not. But Cotto has always lacked defensive ability. This is something that can in fact be taught in a gym with work. Speed, power, and natural boxing ability is something that a fighter is born with. People can be taught to be more defensive savvy so to speak. Look at James Toney for instance, yes he always had this ability, but I look back at his fight in 91 with Michael Nunn. Toney was young, yes and green at the time, but he got hit with many many hard clean shots. Over the next few years, leading up to RJJR, he worked on his defense in the gym. He learned to turn, roll his shoulders, deflect punches and come back with counter shots. After his fight with RJJR, and up too the years 97 and beyond, he became a defensive wizard. This was all gym work though my friends. Cotto with the right trainer could in fact turn himself into the same type of fighter. He had oppurtunities all night to counter Marg, in which a lot of times he did. But he simply would have to take 1-2 shots, and clean ones at that, then counter with a lead right, or a left hand. He didn't possess the ability to roll effectively, make Marg miss and come back withthose counter shots. With the right trainer and a FOCUS on DEFENSIVE, someone like Roach or Steward could turn him into a savvy defensive fighter, who already possess the ability to counter effectively. They could teach him to turn, roll, and duck these incoming punches all the while still opening up his opponent for those clean counter shots the likes of which he landed all night. Problem is is that Cotto needs to take this inciaitive. He needs to become a defensive fighter who wants to make people miss, then pay the price for missing. All this can be done, BUT can it really be done with Evangelisto Cotto in his corner?!?!?!

Cotto should have clinched a lot more. That's all there is to it. He could have won without body punching. he's a naturally smaller man, to clinch him would have been worse because to just even hold him down would have taken a lot out of him as opposed to body shots where he could have landed to the body and kept moving avoiding the extra weight leaning on him. I think he should have attempted to clinch when stuck on the ropes JUST to get out of them whether for 2 seconds or 10 but once out not only does he STAY out but attacks the body, that would have been a good way to include clinching but it's evident that mentally there was something wrong because the whole night Cotto had 1 target, his face, and for a person whose built his entire Boxing reputation on body punching somehow that just doesn't right. 100

Cotto cannot beat Margo in a rematch...People dont understand what kind of MENTAL Beatdown he received. When you answer the bell and you know your not going to stop or hurt the guy accross you it gets in your head. HE can try a new game plan either way....Physically he good its in his head we need to worry about. You cant improveon Cottos fight plan it was perfect for 6 rds. If he waits to look for opening and so forth he will get hit. Margo wont allow any game plan to work. His relentlessness,heart and chin will not alow for cotto to execute. See normally if this was different circumstances I can agree but Cotto DIDN'T bring in the right game plan, basically we're basing a rematch on how Cotto looked using a style he was never supposed to use in the first place. he never attempted an assault to the body, he was backing up with no need, he came with the mentality of a boxer when he should have been a smarter puncher. the only way to beat Tony is to sit and outfight him, fight him smarter than what he can to you. if you back up though and allow for him to back you up and counter you then he will look more impressive to the judges because he's coming forward, landing hard shots and staying consistent but if the other guy AIN'T backing up, AIN'T getting caught on the ropes, AIN'T attacking the body then he isn't making it competitive. The reason I feel Cotto would win a rematch is because on that day it was a different person in there, that wasn't the same guy who beat Quintana, a better skilled opponent. he didn't show up and he did a lot of things he was never supposed to do. I think the mental damage was already there before the beginning of round 1 it's just that it hadn't shown itself, even still early on the superiority in skills showed when after fighting the worst 1st half of a fight technically he still managed to get the better of it, it wasn't until he was spent that he couldn't fend off no more, Tony just threw the punches so of curse they landed, something like how Cotto was hitting him except there was more technique behind Cotto's punches. Just not to drag this further I have to once again agree with homeboy, Cotto lost the fight more than Margarito won it. I think in a rematch it will be a completely different animal, one who now has a point to prove and nothing to lose no more, he can let his chips fly and bring it al.. sometimes you need to lose it all to make you understand how valuable what you have is, it makes you want it back all the more. when you want something and you get it thats great but when you want something BACK and get it it's all the more enjoyful and I think thats how Cotto will look at this, as an opportunity avenge himself. think on it, imagine how Paul Williams felt when after that beat down he took he came back to win such a devastating manner, it's fulfilling and you will see Paul a more confident fighter in the future, I predict the same for Miguel. 100

Cotto should have clinched a lot more. That's all there is to it. He could have won without body punching.

i DON'T THINK COTTO NEEDS TO PLANT HIS FEET AND SIT ON HIS PUNCHES MORE. I THIN HE NEEDS TO MIX IT UP MORE. HE NEEDS TO JAB MORE AND PUNCH WHILE FLEEING AND THAT WAY HE CAN STAY IN THE MIDDLE OF THE RING AND USE HIS GREATER TALENT IN HIS FAVOR. HE ALSO DIDN'T TIE UP WHEN IN TROUBLE. HE BASICALLY FOUGHT A DUMB FIGHT AND LOSSED IT MORE THAN MARGARITO WON IT. COTTO JUST ISN'T AS MENTALLY STRONG AS I THOUGHT AND NOT VERY SMART OF A FIGHTER. HIS CONDITIONING DEFINITELY BETRAYED HIM AT THE WRONG TIME AND AGAINST A FINISHER TOO. I THINK THIS LOSS WILL HAVE MORE OF IMPACT THAN U THINK CRILLZ.....BUT WE'LL SEE IF HE BOUNCES BACK AND BECOMES A BOXER PUNCHER INSTEAD OF JUST A PUNCHER AND HOPEFULLY HE'LL PREPRARE FOR 12RDS AND NOT JUST KO LIKE HIS PREVIOUS FIGHTS. you really think so? I don't know I just think that due to the obvious mistakes he made I think with a reformed game plan and a fresh crack at Tony I think he'll be better prepared to win.. the part I put in bold is my feelings about this whole ordeal wrapped in a nutshell, very well put accept I don't think he fought a dumb fight he just fought the wrong fight, see even with so many mistakes he was still making Tony's head jerk back every second, it was his fight to win all he had to do was Box correctly and stay off them ropes where the hardest punches landed. if he can do this then I smell a trilogy.. btw I don't think this will change Cotto, I think he gonna get stronger. he now knows his breaking point now so I think he'll be ready fight well enough not to reach it again. 100

Cotto cannot beat Margo in a rematch...People dont understand what kind of MENTAL Beatdown he received. When you answer the bell and you know your not going to stop or hurt the guy accross you it gets in your head. HE can try a new game plan either way....Physically he good its in his head we need to worry about. You cant improveon Cottos fight plan it was perfect for 6 rds. If he waits to look for opening and so forth he will get hit. Margo wont allow any game plan to work. His relentlessness,heart and chin will not alow for cotto to execute.

Cotto will always be the bigger draw outta the two, the more skilled fighter outta the two and the biggest NAME outta the two. Marg had a great night, take nothing away from him. But I personally see him as a 1 dimensional fighter. And lets face it if the boy didn't have a granite chin, he'd be in some deep waters. He doesn't possess the ability to box anyone. And his defense involves him being blasted with clean shot after clean shot. How many clean shots can this man take?!?! I think a better boxer, ALA a Floyd, or even Kendall Holt for that matter gives Margarito a lot of problems. Also I think he's got a bigger fish to fry in Daniel Santos. Something he needs to do eventually is move up to 154 and fight that man that beat him. I think that PWILL gives him a tough fight once again, but Marg has that ability to bum rush him over the last 6-7 rounds. I don't see Clottey beating Marg, I just think that his spurts aren't enough. He can't seem to muster a sustained attack on a fighter for over a 12 round period. Same can be said for Marg, but once that 5/6th rounds come, he's nonstop, pressuring and landed punches. I would favor Floyd and PWill. Give Holt and Clottey a small chance. Cotto will be here for years to come. He's a highly skilled fighter, who IMO needs to bring someone in like a Roach or a Steward to really sharpen his skills. His ring generalship and his ability to slip punches has always been a problem for me. He just seemingly gets his with clean shots. I don't think that Evangelisto can sharpen his all round defense prowess. In many cases once a fighter tastes defeat, it's like a light going off or something. Cotto will be back and with avengeance. great post bro, I completely agree. this was one of them Giants VS Patriots moments that only come when they come because skillwise and anywise you can name Cotto was better by a mile it's just once he hit that mental defecit he lost. I still feel his loss had MORE to do with his OWN mistakes more so over what Tony was doing, when fell it's wasn't due to injury it was fatigue. his legs gave out on him and his arms were 100 pounds each so by the time 11th round cam Tony didn't even have to throw a punch if he didn't want to Cotto took the knees. punches or no punches I think it was just his fatigue. now don't get me wrong I ain't saying Tony's punches don't hurt or didn't hurt but I think that Cotto when in competitive form can handle it it's just he can't stay fully competitive for 12, he got heart, he fights back but as the fight ascends he slowly deteriorates on his own. against tony it showed, there was almost an urgency in the Cotto corner and it showed in his fight game. something wasn't straight up there with Cotto and I just want to see this rematch, Cotto deserves it for even giving Margarito the time of day. Floyd turned him down, Mosley turned him down and Cotto signs to fight him twice. out of the pack Cotto wasn't one of the guys that was going to say no yet he was the best of them all, if that doesn't deserve the respect of a rematch I don't know what then. Tony is so 1 dimensional it ain't even funny, like this guy is truly a 1 way fighter. a straight up smart brawler. he wilds out with his shots a lot but once he finds a punch that works he sticks with it, he still wails off reckless completely but he'll throw that money punch in the mix, I commend him for that but overall a Boxer in todays Boxing world his skills don't match up to the other notable names. his natural strength, size and ability to take a shot saves him more so over his ability to fight. it doesn't take much to take and give, infact if you bring no skills thats exactly whats going to happen and thats only if you decent enough to not JUST get hit.

i DON'T THINK COTTO NEEDS TO PLANT HIS FEET AND SIT ON HIS PUNCHES MORE. I THIN HE NEEDS TO MIX IT UP MORE. HE NEEDS TO JAB MORE AND PUNCH WHILE FLEEING AND THAT WAY HE CAN STAY IN THE MIDDLE OF THE RING AND USE HIS GREATER TALENT IN HIS FAVOR. HE ALSO DIDN'T TIE UP WHEN IN TROUBLE. HE BASICALLY FOUGHT A DUMB FIGHT AND LOSSED IT MORE THAN MARGARITO WON IT. COTTO JUST ISN'T AS MENTALLY STRONG AS I THOUGHT AND NOT VERY SMART OF A FIGHTER. HIS CONDITIONING DEFINITELY BETRAYED HIM AT THE WRONG TIME AND AGAINST A FINISHER TOO. I THINK THIS LOSS WILL HAVE MORE OF IMPACT THAN U THINK CRILLZ.....BUT WE'LL SEE IF HE BOUNCES BACK AND BECOMES A BOXER PUNCHER INSTEAD OF JUST A PUNCHER AND HOPEFULLY HE'LL PREPRARE FOR 12RDS AND NOT JUST KO LIKE HIS PREVIOUS FIGHTS.

I think people should just let the Welterweight division play out. It takes years for this shit to unfold. Dont get so up and arms about rematches and what not, just enjoy the show. It's not like we have two top guys that need to fight. We have a deep division that can showcase plenty of compelling maches. Pavlik/Hopkins is an interesting matchup because Pavlik hasnt faced anyone who can move or give angles like B Hop. And regardless of what you want to say about how effective Hops is offensively, he can still defend with the best of them. Abraham and Kessler need to fight an elite fighter, not stay at home and fight mandatories. Why not fight eachother? I want Pacquiao to stay fighting in the Lightweight division because there's so much potential for exciting fights, like Katsidis/Diaz which could be fight of the year. I dont want to see Izzy and Marquez fight again. They should fight some of these other guys in the division or near it.

Cotto will always be the bigger draw outta the two, the more skilled fighter outta the two and the biggest NAME outta the two. Marg had a great night, take nothing away from him. But I personally see him as a 1 dimensional fighter. And lets face it if the boy didn't have a granite chin, he'd be in some deep waters. He doesn't possess the ability to box anyone. And his defense involves him being blasted with clean shot after clean shot. How many clean shots can this man take?!?! I think a better boxer, ALA a Floyd, or even Kendall Holt for that matter gives Margarito a lot of problems. Also I think he's got a bigger fish to fry in Daniel Santos. Something he needs to do eventually is move up to 154 and fight that man that beat him. I think that PWILL gives him a tough fight once again, but Marg has that ability to bum rush him over the last 6-7 rounds. I don't see Clottey beating Marg, I just think that his spurts aren't enough. He can't seem to muster a sustained attack on a fighter for over a 12 round period. Same can be said for Marg, but once that 5/6th rounds come, he's nonstop, pressuring and landed punches. I would favor Floyd and PWill. Give Holt and Clottey a small chance. Cotto will be here for years to come. He's a highly skilled fighter, who IMO needs to bring someone in like a Roach or a Steward to really sharpen his skills. His ring generalship and his ability to slip punches has always been a problem for me. He just seemingly gets his with clean shots. I don't think that Evangelisto can sharpen his all round defense prowess. In many cases once a fighter tastes defeat, it's like a light going off or something. Cotto will be back and with avengeance. co-sign ... :boxing:

On recent back and fourth negotiations. ..I'm having a hard time accepting this shit. back and fourth for weeks on in we been getting talks of De La Hoya, Margarito and Williams and nothing has yet to be established, cool I can live with that but with all these recent arguments from all sides who is the liar? someone has to be bullshitting, they can't all be right. I personally feel like Margarito is now the man to beat, I can understand why before Williams wasn't rushing and now is because money talks and bullshit walks, it makes more sense for him to face Williams because they are 2 champion and it will help the unification process along. besides Paul is a better match for Tony. Oscar clearly doesn't want to face him, at least by what I have observed in recent weeks so why not fight Williams? it's the only other fight out there right now besides the Cotto rematch, as a man whose starved his whole life to get his spot the least he can do is honor his struggle by granting a chance to the man who gave you your chance, lost and is now in that same hole you once were in a rematch. if Tony is a man he will allow Cotto a chance at redemption, I'll lose a LARGE amount of respect if he doesn't. there's also Shane, Clottey, Collazo, Berto, Quintana, Bonsu and many others but Tony should face and erase Paul Williams 1st and then go harder at De La Hoya. I think all these negotiations are annoying, they know what the people want, they just refuse to give it to us. ain't no surprise Margarito got a hard on for Oscar and Oscar got a limp cock for Tony but fact remains evident until those papers are signed ain't nothing coming out of that so all these threads and articles everywhere about the beefin going on is annoying, it's leads us nowhere and creates massive amounts of ignorance amongst members here. all this shit talk back and fourth dies like it never happened once those papers get signed so from now to that signing date they should all just shut the fuck up, we want to see a fight with hands not with words and thats all these guys been doing for weeks already, just talking. anyone else annoyed by this?

Waddup guys, I see too many threads to just run threw each of them so I just made another thread to write what I feel on boxing today.. On Cotto-Margarito ..1st off I don't like how people just brushed off Cotto like some battle scarred warrior who quit and wont be the same, this just isn't the case. honestly in a rematch, knowing what he knows now, I think Cotto will adjust better and attack his body more, not be so defensive just a lot smarter than him offensive, plant his feet and exchange a bit OFF the ropes so Tony can open himself up and just hit him with the smarter punches. Cotto can do this. I like Antonio Margarito, lets get this 100% clear but above him and anyone else I like Boxing, thats the real interests here so I ain't gonna say shit to favoritize shit. I truly feel Cotto was just overwhelmed. example, the other day I'm playing basketball, my homeboy who is a lot smaller than me tried to take it into the lane and BOOM he runs into me, he tries to cross mer and get around and BOOM he hit's my chest like a wall. now mind you we talking about someone who can really play, skilled and all but once I derailed his mental focus he wasn't even trying to take it down the lane, he didn't find openings because he didn't continue looking for them he just started shooting perimeter shots all game. this is a similar situation to Cotto who brought everything he should have but once he got hit mentally it was a wrap, he couldn't find himself off those ropes and all his punches were thrown at the face. then, check it out, me and my homeboy play again and this time he actually able to cross me, he was more aggressive because he had time to think what he did wrong, he came back better prepared for my repetitive moves. true story btw... I can see Cotto doing that to Tony, analyzing his mistakes and correcting them in a rematch. all Tony did was throw punches, they hurt like hell no doubt but his TKO loss wasn't a chin issue, it was a fatigue issue. he could have taken the punches had he been better conditioned but he spent himself early on with his unnecessary upper lateral movement, also he didn't make it hard on Tony because all Tony was doing is what he been doing his whole life, taking punches and just out gunning his opponent and Cotto didn't make that hard for him, in a rematch though I see a different outcome. Regardless I just think it's bullshit how one day Cotto is the best fighter and everybody is sucking his cock and now all of a sudden he's a quitter, ya n1ggaz be mad hipocritical on here, some of ya stood true but there been many who threw themselves out there.. a great fighter NEEDS a loss, this is how he can truly prove his greatness. if you can rise from the slump, a hole in which you ain't top 10 pound for pound n more yet can comeback and regain your glory, thats a champions story and Cotto is that. 100 Cotto will always be the bigger draw outta the two, the more skilled fighter outta the two and the biggest NAME outta the two. Marg had a great night, take nothing away from him. But I personally see him as a 1 dimensional fighter. And lets face it if the boy didn't have a granite chin, he'd be in some deep waters. He doesn't possess the ability to box anyone. And his defense involves him being blasted with clean shot after clean shot. How many clean shots can this man take?!?! I think a better boxer, ALA a Floyd, or even Kendall Holt for that matter gives Margarito a lot of problems. Also I think he's got a bigger fish to fry in Daniel Santos. Something he needs to do eventually is move up to 154 and fight that man that beat him. I think that PWILL gives him a tough fight once again, but Marg has that ability to bum rush him over the last 6-7 rounds. I don't see Clottey beating Marg, I just think that his spurts aren't enough. He can't seem to muster a sustained attack on a fighter for over a 12 round period. Same can be said for Marg, but once that 5/6th rounds come, he's nonstop, pressuring and landed punches. I would favor Floyd and PWill. Give Holt and Clottey a small chance. Cotto will be here for years to come. He's a highly skilled fighter, who IMO needs to bring someone in like a Roach or a Steward to really sharpen his skills. His ring generalship and his ability to slip punches has always been a problem for me. He just seemingly gets his with clean shots. I don't think that Evangelisto can sharpen his all round defense prowess. In many cases once a fighter tastes defeat, it's like a light going off or something. Cotto will be back and with avengeance.