The Greatest Journeymen?

Journeymen who turned there careers round and went on to win world titles cannot be included. For me its Marion Wilson the guy was never knocked out or stopped and was put against fighters like Mccall, samuel peter, tony thompson, Hasim Rahman, chazz weatherspoon, oleg maskev, larry Donald, david izon, Ezra Sellers, Derick Jefferson, Greg Page, cory sanders, Ike Ibeabuchi, Orlin Norris, Obed Sullivan, Shannon Briggs, andrew Golota, Kirk Johnson, Ray Mercer, Vaughn Bean, Jeremy Williams, Terrel Briggs, Francois Botha. http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=4537&cat=boxer Also worth pointing out the fight with mercer was a draw, and in a recent interveiw with boxing digest he was ripped of in the briggs, johnson, mccall, and rahman fights, and tuck most of them fights on short notice. How about Ernie Shavers? He fought the best of his time Jimmy Ellis, Jerry Quarry, Ron Lyle, Ken Norton, Ali, and Larry Holmes 2 times. He fought Ali for the title in 77' losing by UD in 15 rounds. He lost an elimination bout to Holmes and later foguht him for the title in 79' losing by Ko after florring Holmes in the 7th round. His record was 74-14 with 68KO's his KO % 76.4. Ali later said Shavers was the hardest puncher he ever faced, famously stating "Earnie hit me so hard, it shook my kinfolk back in Africa" Holmes, known for his ability to take a punch, later said that Shavers' blow was the hardest he had ever taken in his career. http://www.writestuffautographs.com/shop/images/products/boxing41.jpg http://www.cnnsi.com/features/1998/holyfield/garden/images/77cover.jpg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earnie_Shavers

Haugen looked like he got ran over by a taxi after the beating Chavez gave him :D Oh yeah, but Haugen also had a lot of problems before the fight. I doubt that he trained at all. Haugen was a very fine fighter with an excellent jab that one wouldn't expect from a man with his background in tough-man contests.

The Whitaker fight was in Mexico, which should explain a lot. Chavez fought a lot of Tijuana taxidrivers as Greg Haugen put it. Haugen looked like he got ran over by a taxi after the beating Chavez gave him :D

http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=9367&cat=boxer The all-time KO streak record holder. http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=555&cat=boxer Pernell Whitaker fought a can back when Whitaker was one of the top 2 p4p fighters in boxing and KO'd him in one round. http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=8119&cat=boxer JC Chavez fought Ignacio Pedromo who had fought only once back when Chavez was considered the p4p number 1. The Whitaker fight was in Mexico, which should explain a lot. Chavez fought a lot of Tijuana taxidrivers as Greg Haugen put it.

Oh ok. That's better. I'm still puzzled as to how a debutant is allowed to fight Earnie Shavers. http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=9367&cat=boxer The all-time KO streak record holder. http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=555&cat=boxer Pernell Whitaker fought a can back when Whitaker was one of the top 2 p4p fighters in boxing and KO'd him in one round. http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=8119&cat=boxer JC Chavez fought Ignacio Pedromo who had fought only once back when Chavez was considered the p4p number 1.

Yeah but it's not like that particulat fight was in the philipines or the Upper Volta. It was in Michigan. There must have been some kind of athletic commision. One would expect some kind of order in the US. I hope it got better after the Dok Koo Kim disaster. Sorry, I meant athletic commission, they probably didn't care back then as long as the fighter passed the physical. The athletic commissions now are much stricter about this sort of thing although I sometimes can't believe how some fighters get a license to fight like Riddick Bowe and Holyfield.

I don't really think sanctioning bodies care too much as long as the fighter passes the physical. Yeah but it's not like that particulat fight was in the philipines or the Upper Volta. It was in Michigan. There must have been some kind of athletic commision. One would expect some kind of order in the US. I hope it got better after the Dok Koo Kim disaster.

Oh ok. That's better. I'm still puzzled as to how a debutant is allowed to fight Earnie Shavers. I don't really think athletic commission cared too much as long as the fighter passes the physical.

It's this guy. http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=234&cat=boxer He had a 23-5-0 record at the time. Oh ok. That's better. I'm still puzzled as to how a debutant is allowed to fight Earnie Shavers.

Im surprised nobody has mentioned Vinny Maddalone :) Always in great bloodfests of fights, usually on the losing side, but throws leather like a welterweight and always looks in Sly Stallone shape :) :boxing:

Bernard Hopkins!

i think he meant terrell williams. He probably was. That was a typical easy comeback fight. Muhammad Ali had said to Shavers that if Earnie were to beat Tiger Williams, Ali would give him a title shot. That's what kept Shavers going, although it was looking hopeless for a while. After that fight Shavers KO'd top contender Henry Clark in two rounds and got his shot at the world title. Yeah, Shavers almost made the most of that shot and some even thought he won the decision.

It's this guy. http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=234&cat=boxer He had a 23-5-0 record at the time. Muhammad Ali had said to Shavers that if Earnie were to beat Tiger Williams, Ali would give him a title shot. That's what kept Shavers going, although it was looking hopeless for a while. After that fight Shavers KO'd top contender Howard Smith in two rounds and got his shot at the world title. i think he meant terrell williams. Shavers fought a lot of bums. But to Shavers' defense he was coming off a loss to Tex Cobb at the time and it doesn't get any worse than that.

It's this guy. http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=234&cat=boxer He had a 23-5-0 record at the time. i think he meant terrell williams.

I just checked box-rec. Williams record going in to the fight with Shavers was 0-0-0! :wtf: Shavers was a top HW with 70 fights! Howcome this fight was allowed in the first place??? Williams never fought again. It's this guy. http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=234&cat=boxer He had a 23-5-0 record at the time.

I just checked box-rec. Williams record going in to the fight with Shavers was 0-0-0! :wtf: Shavers was a top HW with 70 fights! Howcome this fight was allowed in the first place??? Williams never fought again.

Shavers had better management than McCall, but he was also more dedicated to boxing and had no drug habits. Neither lived up to their full potential, McCall because of drugs, Shavers because he was a late starter. Shavers had some skills and a ton of heart. Holmes and Ali said that Shavers could avoid their jab better than just about everyone else and the comeback against Roy Williams was one of the most amazing I've ever seen. Look how Shavers slips Ali's jab and counters with the big right at two minutes. Shavers vs 6'5, 230 lb Roy Williams. One night Chuvalo could lose to a bum and the next night he could give Muhammad Ali one of his toughest fights. He probably counts as a journeyman and he was certainly one of the greatest of them. I never saw the Shavers- Williams fight. That last round! Shavers appears to be completely out and he likely would have been stopped if not for the standing 8 count. Amazingly he comes back and lands a heavy right on Williams and now both fighters are shaken to the core. Who recovers first? Well Shavers lands some more heavy artillery and Williams is defenseless on the ropes. Now he gets a standing 8 and is unbelieveably allowed to continue despite not responding to the ref.! But in the end it doesn't matter. After he's allowed to continue he unravels like a clothesline. Whoa manchine! That left me short of breath!

Shavers had better management than McCall, but he was also more dedicated to boxing and had no drug habits. Neither lived up to their full potential, McCall because of drugs, Shavers because he was a late starter. Shavers had some skills and a ton of heart. Holmes and Ali said that Shavers could avoid their jab better than just about everyone else and the comeback against Roy Williams was one of the most amazing I've ever seen. Look how Shavers slips Ali's jab and counters with the big right at two minutes. Shavers vs 6'5, 230 lb Roy Williams. do you have the ellis-shavers fight? i haven't seen that fight since i was a kid.

but that was his .44 magnum right winning him those fights though. for the most part contender level fighters would expose his bad chin , tendency to cut and/or lack of stamina. just because he had better management in the beginning doesn't make him better than mccall. to be honest mccall to me was better skilled. mccall just had his issues. sometimes i feel shavers' power made him ranked higher than he was. the reputation of power does that. look at tua. though i admit tua is better skilled than shavers. Shavers had better management than McCall, but he was also more dedicated to boxing and had no drug habits. Neither lived up to their full potential, McCall because of drugs, Shavers because he was a late starter. Shavers had some skills and a ton of heart. Holmes and Ali said that Shavers could avoid their jab better than just about everyone else and the comeback against Roy Williams was one of the most amazing I've ever seen. Look how Shavers slips Ali's jab and counters with the big right at two minutes. Shavers vs 6'5, 230 lb Roy Williams. I don't know if he counts as a journeyman, but if he does: George chuvalo. That guy fought EVERYONE. He probably would count as top contender though. One night Chuvalo could lose to a bum and the next night he could give Muhammad Ali one of his toughest fights. He probably counts as a journeyman and he was certainly one of the greatest of them.

ray oliveira