Where Is Roy Jones On The ATG List?

Jones Jr in his prime was unreal!

One of the most talented fighters EVER...but...who did he really beat? James Toney, Hopkins and who else? Ruiz? Then gets KOED by Tarver and Johnson and limps along agians nobodies and an old, small, retired Tito...and then loses to Calzaghe...If the question was talent I would put him in the top 5 that ever fought, but as far as overall "greatest" I cant rank him all that high. I don't know too many fighters who beat TWO all-time greats (easily). And not washed up ATG's, or old, but one who was considered one of the two best fighters in the world (and he moved up in WEIGHT to do that) and the other wouldn't lose for another 12 years. How many ATG's in their prime did you want him to beat? Along with those all-timers he beat some pretty good fighters - Thomas Tate, Reggie Johnson, Eric Harding, Eric Lucas, Thulane Malinga, Antonio Tarver, etc., etc. Add that to his other incredible feats (titles from 160 to heavyweight, unifying all 3 belts at 175) - and that in his prime he rarely lost a round...I mean, I don't know what more you want. Finally, the loss to Tarver occured at...35? Go check the records of the guys who you would place in front of him and find out when they declined.

One of the most talented fighters EVER...but...who did he really beat? James Toney, Hopkins and who else? Ruiz? Then gets KOED by Tarver and Johnson and limps along agians nobodies and an old, small, retired Tito...and then loses to Calzaghe...If the question was talent I would put him in the top 5 that ever fought, but as far as overall "greatest" I cant rank him all that high.

i'd say top 50 for right now, i'm note sure yet, but skillwise, i'd say top 10, but under floyd by far, i'd put floyd top 3 skillwise, hands down.

Wow, this post is even worse. I see. So he opted to put Julio Gonzalez on PPV instead. And he did better numbers with Gonzalez than he did in the all of his previous pay-per-views except Toney: including Pazienza, Grffin, Harding, etc. We're done here as far as this debate. Until you can actually pinpoint when Gonzalez went from green to decent (like you actually watched his fights between Jones and Michalchewski), I'd advise you to leave it alone. I'm not sure where all this is coming from. How is any of this relevant to what I said? And I'm the one in love with Jones? Get out of here! Is that what happened?!?!? I had NO IDEA!!! LMAO @ this hater. Thanks for the laughs. Actually, I never mentioned where I thought Jones stands historically. Actually, I merely brought up something in regards to Julio Gonzalez. But you're so MAD - lmao - that you're just throwing the whole book at me. Funny how the haters don't realize that they, in actuality, are the real nuthuggers. Wow I never do this but your a moron. After every FACT, you LOL or im sure your Laughing your ass off at another FACT. So haters like me say he is great? Ive said he is great but nowhere near the fighter he is in your mind. Whos mad here? not me. Check out any boxing historians top 20. After you dont find him, you can write him in with a pencil or something.

He's a top 10 all time fighter. But more specifically top 5 all time P4P. Never pay again for live sex! | Hot girls doing naughty stuff for free! | Chat for free!

Wow, this post is even worse. RJJ couldnt have too many PPVs because the public wasnt buying it . RJJ and HBO were doing nothing more than never ending Showcase fights. Its hard to sell PPVs when your fighting nobodys like Derrick Harmon, Glen Kelly, Richard Hall,David Telesco. I see. So he opted to put Julio Gonzalez on PPV instead. And he did better numbers with Gonzalez than he did in the all of his previous pay-per-views except Toney: including Pazienza, Grffin, Harding, etc. When talking about this Gonzalez fight, Im looking back in hindsight. Like ive said: Gonzalez was a green 23 year old pro with a 27-0 record, who beat mostly nobodys with losing records. At that point hadnt beat anything close to a big name. Looking at Gonzalez career as whole now, he turned out to be a decent fighter at best. Years later he won the WBO belt. We're done here as far as this debate. Until you can actually pinpoint when Gonzalez went from green to decent (like you actually watched his fights between Jones and Michalchewski), I'd advise you to leave it alone. I give him credit from the few good names he has had faced and beat. To this day you have to go all the way back to 1993 to get Jones best wins. The Hopkins fight was a good win for the time. Hopkins was far from his best and didnt hit the p4p list untill years later. Actully its probably his best win, to this day people still talk about his boring close decision from 1993. The Toney win in 1994 was good, too bad Jones never accepted the rematch. Also you could say a Hopkins rematch should have happend, but Jones priced him self out. I'm not sure where all this is coming from. How is any of this relevant to what I said? And I'm the one in love with Jones? Lets not forget that Taver beat him IMO 3 times. One of which he got KTFO. Also when finally fighting another good fighter in Johnson he got KTFO and couldnt even leave the ring under his own power. Get out of here! Is that what happened?!?!? I had NO IDEA!!! Many people gave Jones credit for beating Glen Kelly. Using the gif as a example of Jones "greatness". Woods is a decent fighter at best, like ive been saying. Then in hindsight lost all his big fights. So what does that make him? Nothing great, IMO subpar. So a win over him means? Another mediocre fighter beat. LMAO @ this hater. Thanks for the laughs. Its obvious you love Jones and nothing will ever sway your vote. Your mind has been made up for years hes great. Im not a Jones hater, ive said he was good. But the question to this thread was where he is ALL TIME. Your guys are talking top 5,10 of ALL TIME. No way in hell. This isnt a question of "what he could have done", his great genetics, his great hand speed. Were talking what he actully did in the ring, not all the hype. Not who you THINK he could beat. Who he really fought and beat. Jones could have been top 20 but he never missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity. Actually, I never mentioned where I thought Jones stands historically. Actually, I merely brought up something in regards to Julio Gonzalez. But you're so MAD - lmao - that you're just throwing the whole book at me. Funny how the haters don't realize that they, in actuality, are the real nuthuggers.

Wow, Darkstar. Not good... Umm...it means Baldomir was the welterweight champ. A title he got from Zab Judah. He also beat a faded Arturo Gatti. In other words, you had to do something or be someone. So back then anybody could've fought Jones on pay-per-view? How so? And who else did he fight on pay-per-view PRIOR to Gonzalez? Go on, tell me...while you're at it, let me know how their numbers were. When you can't find it, let me know. I have the info right here. What you've been saying is a whole lot of nothing. Gonzalez was nothing when he fought Jones but became decent later. LOLOL. How did he do that? Did he go see a voodoo priest? Or did the guys he fought after Jones - guys way worse than Jones - make him better than when he fought Roy? LOL. I don't know what "subpar in the fact" means. Especially when you tell me in the previous sentence that he's a decent fighter. So what are you saying? Like I said, Woods was thought to be a bum prior to facing Jones. Turns out he was far from it - decent, as you would say. Let me know when you're ready to make a clear, cohesive point. Umm...not really. We give him credit for beating the James Toney's, Bernard Hopkins, and a slew of other names - some of whom you actually mentioned as good fighters. Only a natural born hater would dare say we give Jones credit for beating Glen Kelly. No one but YOU has ever said that. I think we're done here. RJJ couldnt have too many PPVs because the public wasnt buying it . RJJ and HBO were doing nothing more than never ending Showcase fights. Its hard to sell PPVs when your fighting nobodys like Derrick Harmon, Glen Kelly, Richard Hall,David Telesco. When talking about this Gonzalez fight, Im looking back in hindsight. Like ive said: Gonzalez was a green 23 year old pro with a 27-0 record, who beat mostly nobodys with losing records. At that point hadnt beat anything close to a big name. Looking at Gonzalez career as whole now, he turned out to be a decent fighter at best. Years later he won the WBO belt. I give him credit from the few good names he has had faced and beat. To this day you have to go all the way back to 1993 to get Jones best wins. The Hopkins fight was a good win for the time. Hopkins was far from his best and didnt hit the p4p list untill years later. Actully its probably his best win, to this day people still talk about his boring close decision from 1993. The Toney win in 1994 was good, too bad Jones never accepted the rematch. Also you could say a Hopkins rematch should have happend, but Jones priced him self out. Lets not forget that Taver beat him IMO 3 times. One of which he got KTFO. Also when finally fighting another good fighter in Johnson he got KTFO and couldnt even leave the ring under his own power. Many people gave Jones credit for beating Glen Kelly. Using the gif as a example of Jones "greatness". Woods is a decent fighter at best, like ive been saying. Then in hindsight lost all his big fights. So what does that make him? Nothing great, IMO subpar. So a win over him means? Another mediocre fighter beat. Its obvious you love Jones and nothing will ever sway your vote. Your mind has been made up for years hes great. Im not a Jones hater, ive said he was good. But the question to this thread was where he is ALL TIME. Your guys are talking top 5,10 of ALL TIME. No way in hell. This isnt a question of "what he could have done", his great genetics, his great hand speed. Were talking what he actully did in the ring, not all the hype. Not who you THINK he could beat. Who he really fought and beat. Jones could have been top 20 but he never missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity.

Wow, Darkstar. Not good... Baldomir has been on a HBO PPV main event, what does that mean? Back then anybody Jones foguht could be on a PPV agaisnt him. Thats exactly who they put agaisnt him "anybody". Umm...it means Baldomir was the welterweight champ. A title he got from Zab Judah. He also beat a faded Arturo Gatti. In other words, you had to do something or be someone. So back then anybody could've fought Jones on pay-per-view? How so? And who else did he fight on pay-per-view PRIOR to Gonzalez? Go on, tell me...while you're at it, let me know how their numbers were. When you can't find it, let me know. I have the info right here. Thats right Gonzalez was nothing when he fought RJJ. He hadnt beat a even decent name, most of his wins were agaisnt fighters with losing records. He went on to be a decent fighter at best, years later. What ive been sayin the whole time. What you've been saying is a whole lot of nothing. Gonzalez was nothing when he fought Jones but became decent later. LOLOL. How did he do that? Did he go see a voodoo priest? Or did the guys he fought after Jones - guys way worse than Jones - make him better than when he fought Roy? LOL. Woods is a decent fighter like I said,but if you realy think about it. In the bigger picture of things, he is subpar in the fact he lost all his biggest fights. Taver,Johnson,Jones. I don't know what "subpar in the fact" means. Especially when you tell me in the previous sentence that he's a decent fighter. So what are you saying? Like I said, Woods was thought to be a bum prior to facing Jones. Turns out he was far from it - decent, as you would say. Let me know when you're ready to make a clear, cohesive point. Thats the problem with Jones. You guys give him all the credit in the world for beating anyone and every one. The Clinton Woods Glen Kellys Derrick Harmons Richard Halls David Telescos Umm...not really. We give him credit for beating the James Toney's, Bernard Hopkins, and a slew of other names - some of whom you actually mentioned as good fighters. Only a natural born hater would dare say we give Jones credit for beating Glen Kelly. No one but YOU has ever said that. I think we're done here.

Who said that wasnt lighting fast? He has very fast hands, no doubt about that. But that was agaisnt a already out on his feet, slow Vinny Pazienza. The former lightweight who lost all his big fights. not true, Pazienza had big wins at 154lbs and up after he went through a serious injury that was supposed to end his career. I dont rememeber what that injury was tho Pazienza lost a lot of his big fights, but he was still a really good fighter and only lost to really fighters himself. not so much by the time Roy fought him tho. Im pretty sure he earned his title shot after beating Duran though, so cant really blame Roy for that fight.

Ohhh.now Gonzalez was "nothing." I coulda sworn you said he was "green." Ehh well..nothing...so much nothing that he headlined an HBO pay-per-view that did better numbers than any previous Jones pay-per-view except for Toney. Right kid. He was the same fighter at 23 that he was at 26. Sure he gained experience within that time but no more than he gained going 12 rounds against Jones. Your original premise was that he was green when he fought Roy. You're wrong. Ok...now Woods is subpar. You downgraded him from decent in 15 minutes lololol. You're right. Subpar fighters battle tooth and nail with Glen Johnson. And I watched the fights too. Johnson deserved the decision in the first bout but that's about it. But you're leading me astray from my original point - hey, I would too if I were you. Gonzalez was not "green" when he fought Jones and Woods - whether you think he's "subpar" or not - turned out to be far better than what people thought prior to his fighting Jones. Baldomir has been on a HBO PPV main event, what does that mean? Back then anybody Jones foguht could be on a PPV agaisnt him. Thats exactly who they put agaisnt him "anybody". Thats right Gonzalez was nothing when he fought RJJ. He hadnt beat a even decent name, most of his wins were agaisnt fighters with losing records. He went on to be a decent fighter at best, years later. What ive been sayin the whole time. Woods is a decent fighter like I said,but if you realy think about it. In the bigger picture of things, he is subpar in the fact he lost all his biggest fights. Taver,Johnson,Jones. Thats the problem with Jones. You guys give him all the credit in the world for beating anyone and every one. The Clinton Woods Glen Kellys Derrick Harmons Richard Halls David Telescos

top 10 for me fuckers!!!!!!!!

Gonzalez at that point was nothing.(he just happen to be 23 years old) Most his wins were against fighters with losing records. Before he fought Jones who did he beat? Julian Letterlough is about it. What did Letterlough turn out to be? Nothing. Woods is a subpar fighter is what I meant. He won a vacant title. Ive seen the Johnson fights and I think Johnson got robbed in the one where he didnt get the decision. But we all know Johnson is tough, when RJJ ran into him he got KTFO. Ohhh.now Gonzalez was "nothing." I coulda sworn you said he was "green." Ehh well..nothing...so much nothing that he headlined an HBO pay-per-view that did better numbers than any previous Jones pay-per-view except for Toney. Right kid. He was the same fighter at 23 that he was at 26. Sure he gained experience within that time but no more than he gained going 12 rounds against Jones. Your original premise was that he was green when he fought Roy. You're wrong. Ok...now Woods is subpar. You downgraded him from decent in 15 minutes lololol. You're right. Subpar fighters battle tooth and nail with Glen Johnson. And I watched the fights too. Johnson deserved the decision in the first bout but that's about it. But you're leading me astray from my original point - hey, I would too if I were you. Gonzalez was not "green" when he fought Jones and Woods - whether you think he's "subpar" or not - turned out to be far better than what people thought prior to his fighting Jones.

Look closer. I can't believe the lighting quickness of those uppercuts! Judah who? Who said that wasnt lighting fast? He has very fast hands, no doubt about that. But that was agaisnt a already out on his feet, slow Vinny Pazienza. The former lightweight who lost all his big fights.

You measure "green" by age? What did you think of Felix Trinidad at 20? Gonzalez was 27-0 and very much in the prime of his career. You mention that he won the WBO belt at 26 but he challenged for ALL THREE belts three years earlier. He just so happened to be fighting the wrong guy. Finally, what do you mean by fighters like Woods don't help my case because he's decent? Who said he was great? I am merely pointing out that prior to facing Jones, he was ridiculed as a fighter who had no business fighting for a title yet this same fighter fought tooth and nail with Glen Johnson a year later and went on to win a title anyway. Gonzalez at that point was nothing.(he just happen to be 23 years old) Most his wins were against fighters with losing records. Before he fought Jones who did he beat? Julian Letterlough is about it. What did Letterlough turn out to be? Nothing. Woods is a subpar fighter is what I meant. He won a vacant title. Ive seen the Johnson fights and I think Johnson got robbed in the one where he didnt get the decision. But we all know Johnson is tough, when RJJ ran into him he got KTFO.

Theirs nothing great about that, nothing amazing. It was a KO of a slow bum. Look closer. I can't believe the lighting quickness of those uppercuts! Judah who?

Because they were very young. Years later and many fights later they have some decent success. In Gonzales case he was 23 years old, thats green. At 26 he won the WBO belt. Fighters like Woods dont really help your cause, their decent at best. The Hopkins fight was a good win for the time. He was far from his best and didnt hit the p4p list untill years later. Actully its probably his best win, to this day people still talk about his boring close decision from 1993. lol You measure "green" by age? What did you think of Felix Trinidad at 20? Gonzalez was 27-0 and very much in the prime of his career. You mention that he won the WBO belt at 26 but he challenged for ALL THREE belts three years earlier. He just so happened to be fighting the wrong guy. Finally, what do you mean by fighters like Woods don't help my case because he's decent? Who said he was great? I am merely pointing out that prior to facing Jones, he was ridiculed as a fighter who had no business fighting for a title yet this same fighter fought tooth and nail with Glen Johnson a year later and went on to win a title anyway.

Actually, Gonzalez was thought to be pretty decent prior to fighting Jones. That's why it was an HBO pay-per-view. Not that it did the world's best numbers but Bob Arum thought it was a great match-up of styles. Gonzalez was coming off a Fight of the Year win over Julian Letterlough, the overrated power puncher who people were already claiming would beat Jones. I'm not sure what vast improvement you saw in Gonzalez two years later (he was green?) but funny how a lot of Jones opponents usually aren't "good enough" when they fight him but miraculously are afterwards (Hopkins, Woods, Gonzalez, Lucas, etc...). Because they were very young. Years later and many fights later they have some decent success. In Gonzales case he was 23 years old, thats green. At 26 he won the WBO belt. Fighters like Woods dont really help your cause, their decent at best. The Hopkins fight was a good win for the time. He was far from his best and didnt hit the p4p list untill years later. Actully its probably his best win, to this day people still talk about his boring close decision from 1993. lol

Julio Gonzalez TURNED out to be a DECENT fighter. When RJJ fought him he was very green 23 years old. See you know making RJJ a ATG is a stretch when you defend him beating a very young Julio Gonzalez by DECISION. lol Actually, Gonzalez was thought to be pretty decent prior to fighting Jones. That's why it was an HBO pay-per-view. Not that it did the world's best numbers but Bob Arum thought it was a great match-up of styles. Gonzalez was coming off a Fight of the Year win over Julian Letterlough, the overrated power puncher who people were already claiming would beat Jones. I'm not sure what vast improvement you saw in Gonzalez two years later (he was green?) but funny how a lot of Jones opponents usually aren't "good enough" when they fight him but miraculously are afterwards (Hopkins, Woods, Gonzalez, Lucas, etc...).

It's not just about who you beat, it's also about how you beat them. Say what you want about Virgil Hill, but Roy knocked him out with a body shot... A lot of guys have gone on to win belts after loosing to Roy Jones, look at Julio Gonzalez for instance, after Roy he went on to beat Glen Johnson and Dariusz Michalczewski (for the WBO title). Virgil "over the" Hill. Coming off a LOSS to Dariusz Michalczewski. Its too much it really is. :rofl: