who was the better fighter Muhammad Ali or Ray Leonard

who was the better fighter Muhammad Ali or Ray Leonard , i might be biased but i think it was Ray Leonard he had the same speed of hand and foot he had the same grannit chin he had the same Championship Heart yet he punched Harder & more accurately and he had a better defence & more allround skills IMO ,Leonard could fight at mid range /pocket and not get hit whilst tattooing his oponents he was also one helluva brawler and IMO he was and the best finisher in Boxing i have ever seen Mike Tyson comes close i must admit Muhammad Ali was a tremendous fighter dont get me wrong ,but he was not as versatile as Ray Leonard IMO My feeling exactly.Muhammad never punched to the body, and not the brawler that Ray was.

I liked Ray better, simply because he would trade with anyone, and had great power for his size. Clay preferred to use ring smarts and pure boxing skills to win, for the most part. Both had guts, but I just preferred to watch Leonard over Clay.

if foreman had beaten young it would have happened. I would doubt that quite strongly, and my best guess is Ali would've once again announced one of his frequent retirements if Foreman had gotten by Young, just like he did when the foot first came down with the orders for Ali to defend against him after Norton; "The winner of the Sept 28th fight heavyweight title fight between champion Muhammad Ali and Ken Norton must fight No. 1 contender George Foreman no later than 90 days later, the World Boxing Council says." - UPI report, Aug 20th, 1976 A few days later on Aug 25 and as stated in the AP reports, "Muhammad Ali says he's ignoring a World Boxing Council edict on when he must fight George Foreman." Ali fights Norton, is very lucky to get the decision, and it wasn't but a short time later when Ali announced one of his frequent retirements during that time. A couple of months later Ali expresses his wishes to fight again, the WBC again steps forward to issue Ali an ultimatum saying he must defend against Foreman only to see Ali express wishes to fight Bobick first and issue comments such as "I am bigger than boxing. I do what I like when I like." and things of that nature, which were said in defiance of the WBC's orders. Ali/Foreman II was talked about during those late '76/early '77 times and was said to have been planned, but that's no different than the 1975 year when the rematch was talked about a bunch and thought to have been planned for the fall of 1975. Oh, and contrary to what the other guy said, Foreman did express much interest in getting a rematch after Ali beat him in Zaire, and came right out expressing exactly that not even a week after the fight when the papers on Nov 4th & 5th (and thereabouts) were littered with quotes from Foreman making his request for a rematch amongst other things (particularily his complaints about the ring ropes and such). Foreman also frequently expresssed his interest in a rematch from then on, even appearing on the front cover of Sports Illustrated in the year (I think that issue was from Nov or Dec of '75) after first fighting Ali with a caption along the lines of "I Want Ali Again". Again, it was talked about in 1975, but when Ali was quoted on his intentions he seemed to always say things along the lines of him wishing to have a couple more fights before facing Foreman in a rematch, which completely contradicts Ali's own beliefs when he went on national television after the first Spinks fight crying and pleaing about how it was the ex-champions right to have first dibs on the rematch. Anyways, like I stated first off, I doubt that the rematch would've ever happened, as it already had plenty of time, interest, orders, and opportunities to happen in the couple/few years before that.

that's debatable. he gave hearns the rematch very late. but that could be because he retired shortly and hearns moved up. he took duran months later for smart reasons ali also gave rematches. to quarry, to cooper, patterson, frazier, norton, never ducked. the only man that comes to mind that didnt get the rematch is foreman. but that's debatable because there was no hard pressing for rematch on foreman's side if foreman had beaten young it would have happened. instead he retired!

In my opinion Ali was better. Archie Moore Doug Jones Sonny Liston Floyd Patterson George Chuvalo Cleveland Williams Ernie Terrell Zora Folley Jerry Quarry Oscar Bonavena Jimmy Ellis Buster Mathis Mac Foster Bob Foster Joe Bugner Ken Norton Joe Frazier George Foreman Ron Lyle compared to Ranzany Andy Price Wilfred Benitez Roberto Duran Ayub Kalule Thomas Hearns Marvin Hagler Donny Lalonde It's the sheer amount of Ali's quality victories, although his p4p worth is hard to calculate because he was a heavyweight and naturally fought smaller and also bigger men. If Leonard's career had not been cut short by the eye injury then perhaps he would rate higher than Ali IMO, but then again Ali missed 3 years of his prime as well. I know the heavyweight division generally produces the better named fighters because of the prestige surrounding that weight class, but for the overall quality of a fighter, if you're going to credit some of those guys as conquests for Ali (like Moore, Chuvalo, Williams, etc.), then it certainly wouldn't be a stretch to add a few more names to Leonard's listing, such as Geraldo, Gant, Shields, Muniz, Chiaverini, Green, etc., who were all good enough fighters from those days and who were all ranked contenders (at least half of those six that I named there were ranked top five) at the time when Leonard defeated them.

i dont know the correct figures but id hazzard a guess that generally HW statistically fight on & are more successfull late on in there careers past there primes than fighters from the lighter weights Hell Big George won the title back at when he was a grandad, when u add Leonard's eye problems and inactiveity to the equation & his cocaine abuse i think there is a good indicator to why Muhammad Ali had more longevity in his career which allowed him to rack up more notable wins i cant dispute Ali record was probably better cause by sheer number of good names he beat Leonard beat good name but he did not have a list as long as Ali's but i think P4P Ray in his prime was a better fighter more skilled more complete fighter than Muhammad Ali

Just to clarify, does this mean you are saying pound for pound, Leonard would beat Hagler in their respective primes? yes without a doubt Leonard was a better fighter than Marvin Hagler P4P

I'd like KG to turn heavy so he can get knocked the fuck out. Biggest big man poser in the NBA. his intensity is as fake as kobe's humbleness....... that said...... the lakers let one get away tonight. they could've won that game tonight. still depressed.......

i dont think that the "heavies" are in any danger of getting hurt, because the damage has already been done. some of these cake-eating hippos are an insult to someone like ali, or any other great heavyweight. the reason i would want a superheavyweight division is to isolate all these hungry bastards and let the real fellas do the work like the oldies went about it. some of these fights are just horrible to watch back in the days, a heavyweight fight was an event....now it's an undercard stinker. when was there a last major ppv heavyweight title fight?? maskaev vs past it, overweight rahman??? gone are the days my friend true. nowadays former middeweights are beating our heavy "champions" we need younger kids interested in boxing. nowadays unless your family is in boxing no kids aspire to be a boxer. most kids want to play football and basketball. even baseball is suffering from lack of interest from the kids.

Ali was the greater fighter. Leonard was more complete. For the most part, heavyweights are less complete fighters than smaller guys. that's true the majority of the little guys seem to be more skill-oriented. even tyson said he wished he was a little guy so he could compete with a more artistic approach.

heavies back then use to go 15. now they're out of breath and pawing after 4. i always wanted a super heavy division but it'd hurt the heavy. heavy was suppose to be the biggest , baddest man on the planet. a super heavy would get rid of the freaks though. bye bye mr. nicolay "wearing a sweater during fights" valuev. i dont think that the "heavies" are in any danger of getting hurt, because the damage has already been done. some of these cake-eating hippos are an insult to someone like ali, or any other great heavyweight. the reason i would want a superheavyweight division is to isolate all these hungry bastards and let the real fellas do the work like the oldies went about it. some of these fights are just horrible to watch back in the days, a heavyweight fight was an event....now it's an undercard stinker. when was there a last major ppv heavyweight title fight?? maskaev vs past it, overweight rahman??? gone are the days my friend

Ali was the greater fighter. Leonard was more complete. For the most part, heavyweights are less complete fighters than smaller guys.

he said pav is greater than hop now, and that hatton would beat leonard........now what's it to ya.......and what's with the rambling on about nothing........??????? my own sarcastic way of agreeing with you.

In my opinion Ali was better. Archie Moore Doug Jones Sonny Liston Floyd Patterson George Chuvalo Cleveland Williams Ernie Terrell Zora Folley Jerry Quarry Oscar Bonavena Jimmy Ellis Buster Mathis Mac Foster Bob Foster Joe Bugner Ken Norton Joe Frazier George Foreman Ron Lyle compared to Ranzany Andy Price Wilfred Benitez Roberto Duran Ayub Kalule Thomas Hearns Marvin Hagler Donny Lalonde It's the sheer amount of Ali's quality victories, although his p4p worth is hard to calculate because he was a heavyweight and naturally fought smaller and also bigger men. If Leonard's career had not been cut short by the eye injury then perhaps he would rate higher than Ali IMO, but then again Ali missed 3 years of his prime as well. This about sums it up.

that's a good point, a lot of cruiserweights today would be pretty big heavyweights back in the day. i liked it better then, because of prolonged workrate. many of today's big guys carry all that extra weight which only slows them down, makes them sloppy, and doesnt serve as an advantage anymore of just being "the bigger man". with that said i wouldnt mind having a "heavyweight division" with the cut limit of 230 or so pounds. and then there should be a "supreheavyweight division" for those big bafoons heavies back then use to go 15. now they're out of breath and pawing after 4. i always wanted a super heavy division but it'd hurt the heavy. heavy was suppose to be the biggest , baddest man on the planet. a super heavy would get rid of the freaks though. bye bye mr. nicolay "wearing a sweater during fights" valuev.

you are the absolute worst poster on here..............0 credibility............lol..........snicker............ why? how do you know he's the worst poster? because he thinks wlad could beat ali? or hatton would beat leonard? or he's comparing a 5 foot 6 limited 140-lber to a great welter who moved up all the way to super middle? or because wlad and hatton made it to a thread about two of the greatest fighters of all time? or have you just read every single post the guy has ever made? or are you stating a fact that almost everyone on this forum already knows?

i don't agree that wlad would beat ali but even if wlad could beat ali , it's not fair to judge it in that way. it's easier to compare lighter weight classes with different era's because the weight limit is a constant. a welter in 1940 is suppose to weight the same as a welter in 2008. (although with modern weight cutting , training and nutrition modern lightweights are the size of middleweights 40-50 years ago) when leonard fought at welter they were the same size as the welters now. when ali fought foreman was a monster at 6'3 230. wlad stands what 6'6? 6'7? in ali's day 6'1 220 was a good size for a heavy. now 6'1 220 guys cut weight to fight at cruiser. that's a good point, a lot of cruiserweights today would be pretty big heavyweights back in the day. i liked it better then, because of prolonged workrate. many of today's big guys carry all that extra weight which only slows them down, makes them sloppy, and doesnt serve as an advantage anymore of just being "the bigger man". with that said i wouldnt mind having a "heavyweight division" with the cut limit of 230 or so pounds. and then there should be a "supreheavyweight division" for those big bafoons

Ali would get beaten by guys like Wladimir Klitschko, he was never able to deal with a good strong jab! I think Leonard would easily get out-worked by Hatton as well, Hatton is quicker in his feet and doesn't get lazy in the later rounds. Having said that I think Ali was the better fighter but I just wish Wladimir Klitschko boxed around his era so he could teach him how to deal with jabbers. i don't agree that wlad would beat ali but even if wlad could beat ali , it's not fair to judge it in that way. it's easier to compare lighter weight classes with different era's because the weight limit is a constant. a welter in 1940 is suppose to weight the same as a welter in 2008. (although with modern weight cutting , training and nutrition modern lightweights are the size of middleweights 40-50 years ago) when leonard fought at welter they were the same size as the welters now. when ali fought foreman was a monster at 6'3 230. wlad stands what 6'6? 6'7? in ali's day 6'1 220 was a good size for a heavy. now 6'1 220 guys cut weight to fight at cruiser.

I admire Leonard for the exact same reasons you do. Him almost outbrawling Duran and trying to walk down Hearns are two of my favourite moments from boxing. The finish against Hearns, also, incredible! Nothing Ali ever did was quite so impressive for me, but still some great moments, obviously. i don't think he outbrawled duran. when he brawled with roberto he held his own but he lost. he made him look silly the second fight though. ali had great skills. but his greatness came from his wins. their resume is close. but i'd still give the edge to ali. ali beat liston to get his title wilfredo was just as great. ali vs. frazier 1 is comparable in legacy to leonard-hearns. they both while past their prime beat a perceived unbeatable champion (foreman for ali , hagler for leonard) although obviously ray's win was debatable but both benefited from friendly judging later in their careers.

SRL..........................greater