What Fighter since 1980 has beaten the best competition.

obiously you never boxed or never been briefed on the rules of boxing and what the actual job of the referee is. In the last round depending upon the rules in that state the referee is instructed that if the bell rings and the fighter is on his feet or gets to his feet by the count of 10, that the fighters gets the benefit of the doubt. Taylor was up and looking at the referre with his gloves up, No he did not respond to a verbal indication given by Steele (which is steele's only saving grace) QUOTE] Pink .... you know you fucked up right?????So you're saying that in some states if a fighter gets up to his feet... no matter his condition he is to be "given the benifit of the doubt"? That's bullshit. Taylor was up and looking at the ref with his gloves up?????????????? WTF are you talking about !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!I got the fight , the whole thing! Even after he waves off the fight taylor has his left hand on the top rope and his right hand on the second rope. HE NEVER LETS GO! Even after the ring is mobbed there is an angle (I've watched it hundreds of times) half a minute later he is still in the same corner holding the same ropes!!!!! PROVING ONCE AGAIN CHAVEZ 12 round KO JUSTIFIED

If you ask any fighter, manager, referee etc...except for Richard Steele, the will tell you the worst stoppage in boxing history is...Chavez vs Taylor. I ask you how was he helping Taylor become safe if he was doing his job and enforced that Chavez go back to furthers corner, and knew that there was only 2 seconds left to go. Any idiot would know that Chavez would not have even been able to land a punch. GET OVER IT PINK !!!! All Taylor had to do was say yes, shit even a nod would have done it. WTF is you'r point about 2 seconds left? I don't think you are a liscensed ref in boxing are you? Do you got the manual or something? Taylor was asked the simplest GED fuckin question EVER and couldn't say shit! Fuck all the excuses, ........WHAT? did Taylor not see Steeles fingers in his face when giving the count? He didn't happen to know WTF a fighter does or is supposed to do after he gets up? He had ko'd mf'ers before he seen and knew what they did when they went down, HOW could he not know? When he goes down and gets up Taylor is looking in steeles eyes, steele's counting 7.....8.....9...... looking right into Meldricks eyes and then asked if he was ok twice and .......He asked if he was ok with 7 seconds left in the round after giving him a 9 count! then asked him again and waved it off with 4 seconds left (officially 2, but the clock is right there).

You also suggested learn human nature.. and that Taylor was taing a beating for 12 rounds. Did you know that Taylor was comfortably ahead n all the cards? Yes he took punishement, so did Leonard when his eye was closed vs hearns, or Ali when his jaw was broke, or Mayweather when he fought with a damaged shoulder, how many wars did Gotti go through, or Diego vs Castillo. So your suggesting I learn human nature and also point out that Taylor should not be allowed the dignity of finishing a fight that was OVER... could not be hit again. I think most people in Richard Steele's position (as evidenced in discussions after the fight) would have allowed the 2 seconds to run out, since this was a championship fight, taylor could not take anymore punishement, and had Steele been on his JOB completley not just literally like your saying, he would have allowed the fighters to leave with their dignity, their safetly and allow the fight to have the ening it deserved.

Your right it is the referee's prime concern for the safety of the fighter,,which is the reason for what follows: 1. Light goes off 10 seconds to alert the referee to position himself to be able to step in and PROTECT the fighter from unnecessary punches being landed after the bell. 2. Why is it that there is a generally accepted rule that (you chose to ignore) that the final bell saves the fight....Hmmm could it be because the fighter will not take any additional punishment? Hmmmm 3. Based on the fact mentioned above that the final bell can save a fighter since the fighter has made it to the entire fight, and can not take any more punishement,, Help us understand if you carry that same logic over, who damage would Taylor have taken had that fight continued. Could Chavez had landed another single punch if he was positioned where he should have been, an if he was not, then the referee should have motioned Chavez to the furthest neutral corner, which would have taken additional time. I am not arguing the fact that he was asked twice to step forward and say if he was alright. That is true, however what you dont know and you show your ignorance of the sport, is that EVERY REFEREE, including other referee's that talked about that fight, when we are briefed (as boxers) that to be aware that with 10 seconds left in each round the referee will be closerto the action than normal and to be aware so to not accidently hit the refereee. Also the referees job is to know exactly how much time there is in each round, how many rounds left in each fight. While is primary concern is the safety of the fighter, he is alway trained to be aware of the time of the fight and to make decisions that if they will not lead to harm of the fighter, they can be beneficial to the fighers just like the final bell can save a fighter. I know boxing son, I have boxed. I didnt learn it on a website or via debate. In reading your post your technically right. However there is a reason why in the boxing world it is considered the worst stoppage ever. This is not just debaters like yourself and I at this point, but experts, referees, fellow fighters who know the rules. They almost all point out that fight should not have been stopped. Learn the facts!

Great thread, good for debate. I disagree with people mentioning Evander. I love the guy, but in terms of overall wins, he isn't one of the names that spring to mind when thinking back over the past quarter-century. He did beat Bowe and Tyson but guys like Holmes and Foreman were past their prime, Moorer was a blown-up Lt-Heavy who was a bit of a flash-in-the-pan at heavyweight, Mercer of course was extremely inconsistant and susceptible to good technicians. Ray Leonards wins over Duran, Hearns and Hagler are hard to argue with. A nod to Salvador Sanchez - though of course he died in only 1982 from 1980 until his death he was a total beast, beating Azumah Nelson in his final fight and prior to that Ruben Castillo, Danny Lopez, Wilfredo Gomez, and Juan LaPorte, some of the great lower-weights fighters of the time.

obiously you never boxed or never been briefed on the rules of boxing and what the actual job of the referee is. There is...I repeat..There is an official that either signals a light along the ring aprons 4 diffent sides that there are 10 seconds left in the round or the pound the matt. When I boxed I had been party to both. The Referee my friend is trained to be aware of this light or pounding when it goes off. This alerts the referee to be in position to step in when the round ends.... Based upon the rules of the state in the rounds leading up to the last round, the fighter can no be saved by the bell, so the referee stops the action but continues any count that was already n process. However, this is where you show you dont know the rules, and appears that you simply want to argue a point you have no experience in, In the last round depending upon the rules in that state the referee is instructed that if the bell rings and the fighter is on his feet or gets to his feet by the count of 10, that the fighters gets the benefit of the doubt. Your statement or misstatement that the referee is not trained to be aware of all these counts is false, IT IS HIS JOB. I know we have to be briefed on the rules as well. The referee has be perfecltyl in sync with the timekeeper.. Remember the big deal with the Tyson-Douglas fight. The fighter takes his lead from the referee, but the referee is to have his count in sync at all times from the timekeeper. BTW, in this fight the referee should have know that the 10 second light or notification had happened. Chavez should have been instructed to retire to the farthest corner. The referee should have did his due diligece with Taylor which he did, and before stopping the fight. Taylor was up and looking at the referre with his gloves up, No he did not respond to a verbal indication given by Steele (which is steele's only saving grace) however Steele before stopping the fight should have factored in that this is the last round, there is not even enough time for Chavez to land another punch. thus Taylor would not be taking anymore damage. Thus allowing the fight to continue to the bell WOULD BE THE RIGHT THING TO DO!. No one is saying that he was technically wrong, what the entire boxing world is saying is that He was wrong to stop this fight with 2 second left as Taylor would not have taken anymore shots, thus Steele was did nothing more to protect the fighter and yes it is his job to know that how much time is remaining in the round especially when the 10 second notice was given. I suggest you learn about boxing the actual rules and guidlines that fighters and refereees are to follow and not just say what you hear an announcer say. The refs major concern is the fighter and his ability to continue! Not the damn light in the corner. The ref asked two fucking times, TWICE, which I have already told you, if Meldrick Taylor was ok. He didn't respond. How do you let a fight at any stage continue of the fighter doesn't respond? It's simple logic in regards to the safety of the fighter. It was a wild moment, a hyped up crowd and things were happening very quickly. Steele was watching with the best view in the house, the type of punishment Meldrick was taking throughout the fight. He was able to gauge the impact of Chavez punches better than you through a tv screen. Taylor was so bad off at one point he threw a punch, missed and fell to the canvas! And you think Richard Steels main concern is the fucking clock? How do you let a fighter continue after seeing him take incredible punishment for 12 rounds, fall from his own missed punch and not respond to a simple question that was asked twice "Are you ok? Are you ok?", while looking directly into bland eyes? Gtfoh! It wasn't as bad a stoppage as some people try to make it seem when looking at the facts which I have clearly outlined for you. I suggest you learn about human nature and quit acting like Richard Steele is a robot whose decisions are made on proper calculations.

obiously you never boxed or never been briefed on the rules of boxing and what the actual job of the referee is. There is...I repeat..There is an official that either signals a light along the ring aprons 4 diffent sides that there are 10 seconds left in the round or the pound the matt. When I boxed I had been party to both. The Referee my friend is trained to be aware of this light or pounding when it goes off. This alerts the referee to be in position to step in when the round ends.... Based upon the rules of the state in the rounds leading up to the last round, the fighter can no be saved by the bell, so the referee stops the action but continues any count that was already n process. However, this is where you show you dont know the rules, and appears that you simply want to argue a point you have no experience in, In the last round depending upon the rules in that state the referee is instructed that if the bell rings and the fighter is on his feet or gets to his feet by the count of 10, that the fighters gets the benefit of the doubt. Your statement or misstatement that the referee is not trained to be aware of all these counts is false, IT IS HIS JOB. I know we have to be briefed on the rules as well. The referee has be perfecltyl in sync with the timekeeper.. Remember the big deal with the Tyson-Douglas fight. The fighter takes his lead from the referee, but the referee is to have his count in sync at all times from the timekeeper. BTW, in this fight the referee should have know that the 10 second light or notification had happened. Chavez should have been instructed to retire to the farthest corner. The referee should have did his due diligece with Taylor which he did, and before stopping the fight. Taylor was up and looking at the referre with his gloves up, No he did not respond to a verbal indication given by Steele (which is steele's only saving grace) however Steele before stopping the fight should have factored in that this is the last round, there is not even enough time for Chavez to land another punch. thus Taylor would not be taking anymore damage. Thus allowing the fight to continue to the bell WOULD BE THE RIGHT THING TO DO!. No one is saying that he was technically wrong, what the entire boxing world is saying is that He was wrong to stop this fight with 2 second left as Taylor would not have taken anymore shots, thus Steele was did nothing more to protect the fighter and yes it is his job to know that how much time is remaining in the round especially when the 10 second notice was given. I suggest you learn about boxing the actual rules and guidlines that fighters and refereees are to follow and not just say what you hear an announcer say.

The mention of Alexis Arguello somewhere in this thread got me thinking that his Jr. Lightweight and Lightweight careers deserve consideration. I think he started the 80's by beating Bobby Chacon and that's after disposing of Alfredo Escalera (return match) and Bazooka Limon late in 1979.. Then he beat Rolando Navarette, Cornelius Boza-Edwards, Jose Luis Ramirez, Jim Watt, and Ray Mancini--all of whom were either champs or later became champs. Then, he added to his list top-flight contenders like the then 47-0 Ruben Castillo, James Buscheme, Andrew Ganigan, Robert Vasquez and Robert Elizondo. All these he accomplished from 1980 to 1982 (when he lost to Aaron Pryor).

The fight doesn't have to be saved by the bell if the ref feels a fighter is done, 2 seconds or 2 minutes. The ref doesn't even know how many seconds are left. In a fight of that magnitude, the type of action going on and the crowd noise, do you think Richard Steele was counting down seconds until the end of the fight? No, he was focused on the condition of a badly fading and brutally beaten fighter. He had the best view of anyone to see the condition of Taylor. He asked 2 times if he was ok and Taylor did not respond whether Lou Duva jumped up on the mat or not. The fact of the matter is, Richard Steele gave Meldrick Taylor a chance to finish the fight and Taylor blew it. The rematch proved who the better fighter was, again. Don't push me over that ledge folks....:grr:

Have you ever boxed? Do you know the job of a Ref. Your correct about the 1st rule, but he has other rules as well, including clock awareness, that is why he is signaled with 10 seconds left to go in each round, to position himself to step in at the end of the round. He also IS TRAINED TO MAKE JUDGMENTS NOT ONLY IN THE SAFETY OF THE FIGHTERS, BUT OTHER ITEMS LIKE KEEPNG THE ACTION ALIVE, SHORTS LOCATIONS, MANAGING THE FIGTHERS CORNERS, AND LAST BUT NOT LEAST IF IT IS THE END OF A FIGHT, THE FIGHTERS GET THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT IN REGARDS TO STOPPAGES.... THAT IS WHY ( I noticed you chose to not address my point regarding fighting being saved by the bell at the final bell) The fight doesn't have to be saved by the bell if the ref feels a fighter is done, 2 seconds or 2 minutes. The ref doesn't even know how many seconds are left. In a fight of that magnitude, the type of action going on and the crowd noise, do you think Richard Steele was counting down seconds until the end of the fight? No, he was focused on the condition of a badly fading and brutally beaten fighter. He had the best view of anyone to see the condition of Taylor. He asked 2 times if he was ok and Taylor did not respond whether Lou Duva jumped up on the mat or not. The fact of the matter is, Richard Steele gave Meldrick Taylor a chance to finish the fight and Taylor blew it. The rematch proved who the better fighter was, again.

I think Thunderlips would have got smashed by Creed. To good of a 1,2. Thunder would have got close, and got blinded by the trunks. Besides, was Thunderlips on the original Rocky on the Sega Master System? I don't think so. Creed TKO's Thunder, and Lang. Big L's to 80's Rocky, and Drago. Just how I see it...

Thunderlips was a force of nature. Brother.

Not attacking you, just setting the record straight vs the myth of Pryor. Its funny how things that are not historically accurate start to gain steam years after the fact, like hagler was fighting 15 round fights until he faced leonard, or leonard got him to fight at 155, etc... I love Leonard, but his career was too short to consider him the greatest of all time, and he did let a lightweight move and up beat him initially. Howevr, leonard is my favorite, he did beat the best level of opposition in benetiz, hearns, hagler, duran since 1980 hmmm 1979. I do feel that Roy Jones was probably the best fighter though. He was simply too good. He did completley dismantly two greats, Toney and Hopkins. and was sooo fast and powerful at middlweight, the big four (leonard, duran, hagler, hearns) is lucky that Roy came around after their reign.

When was he supposed to face pyror...I suggest you not fall prey to myths...Pryor was a jr welterweight who had beaton only old Cervantes by the time Leonar retired in nov of 82 after retinal surgery...Pyror beat Arguello the end of that same month...Arguello is what put pryors name on the map. The myth of leonard ducking pryor is by pryor groupies, many people too young and ws not even around then, people who saw the hbo special and because some pro pryor associates where on there hyping up pyror does not make it so. Simply do the time line yourself. Yes pryor approached his old buddy, on stage about a fight, but what was left out is that this was during the leonard hearns buildup. Was leonard supposed ot not fight hearns the wba welterweight champ who just ko'd cuevas, to fight a unproven jr welter who never fought at welterwieght before....hmmmmm I'm not trying at all to knock down Leonard. If you check out my posts you will see I think he's the GOAT.

When was he supposed to face pyror...I suggest you not fall prey to myths...Pryor was a jr welterweight who had beaton only old Cervantes by the time Leonar retired in nov of 82 after retinal surgery...Pyror beat Arguello the end of that same month...Arguello is what put pryors name on the map. The myth of leonard ducking pryor is by pryor groupies, many people too young and ws not even around then, people who saw the hbo special and because some pro pryor associates where on there hyping up pyror does not make it so. Simply do the time line yourself. Yes pryor approached his old buddy, on stage about a fight, but what was left out is that this was during the leonard hearns buildup. Was leonard supposed ot not fight hearns the wba welterweight champ who just ko'd cuevas, to fight a unproven jr welter who never fought at welterwieght before....hmmmmm Thank You!!! :yeah:

When was he supposed to face pyror...I suggest you not fall prey to myths...Pryor was a jr welterweight who had beaton only old Cervantes by the time Leonar retired in nov of 82 after retinal surgery...Pyror beat Arguello the end of that same month...Arguello is what put pryors name on the map. The myth of leonard ducking pryor is by pryor groupies, many people too young and ws not even around then, people who saw the hbo special and because some pro pryor associates where on there hyping up pyror does not make it so. Simply do the time line yourself. Yes pryor approached his old buddy, on stage about a fight, but what was left out is that this was during the leonard hearns buildup. Was leonard supposed ot not fight hearns the wba welterweight champ who just ko'd cuevas, to fight a unproven jr welter who never fought at welterwieght before....hmmmmm

Leonard. Fought Hearns... two times. Duran... three times. Hagler. Taking late 70's early 90's into consideration, also Benítez and Norris. Only failed to face Pryor.

Rocky Balboa easily. After his split decision loss to Appollo Creed and his win in the subesequent rematch he went 10-0 in title defenses, lost to tough and hungry Clubber Lang but beat him in the rematch and then faced the best that the Eastern Bloc had to offer in Ivan Drago. Not only that he also beat the heavyweight champion of the world in a street fight WITH BRAIN DAMAGE then came out of retirement at the age of 70 to almost beat the undisputed champion of the world when he was TWENTY YEARS OUTSIDE HIS PRIME! Now tell me which fighter could come close to matching that sort of achievement! Creeds jab was a force of nature. Clubber Lang would have got that ass BEAT. But he ran into a south paw, body punching, force of nature. Hey, style's make fights....

BS. A prime Apollo Creed fought everybody and the shot version was going to fight Joe Frazier if he took Balboa semi-seriously in the first fight to clean out the entire HW division. As a counter argument I will refer you back to my original post which I edited to make some of the writing bigger and in red.

If you ask any fighter, manager, referee etc...except for Richard Steele, the will tell you the worst stoppage in boxing history is...Chavez vs Taylor. I ask you how was he helping Taylor become safe if he was doing his job and enforced that Chavez go back to furthers corner, and knew that there was only 2 seconds left to go. Any idiot would know that Chavez would not have even been able to land a punch.