is Pavlik a good Champion or was it just right place right time

Pavlik is a great champion, exciting fighter.. He'll destroy his next 2 opponents, Lockett and Rubio .. I can't wait to see him in there with the big names again, such as Miranda and Taylor.

For Taylor, I think he rose to the top too quickly, then allowed too much pressure on himself. He gets too keyed up during his fights and is too emotional in the ring. If his trainer can capture what he was when he was up and coming, he may find that relaxation he once had in the ring come back. Everyone put so much pressure on him to perform and took potshots at the guy left and right. Maybe the two Pavlik fights will help him. He still has a lot to offer if he can find what took him to the top. I won't write him off yet, he may come back and falter, or he may surprise us all. He seems like a great guy and I wish him all the luck. u might be right personally i have my reservations dont get me wrong i like Taylor he is a skilled fighter ,Taylor reminds me of Eubank TBH because both like to control the pace of a fight both can look dominent when they claim the centre of the ring and both do not like working at someones elses pace ,if u give Taylor the centre of the ring where he can utilise his jab he is one helluve good fighter but u back him up & make him work for 3 mintues of every round he will start to fade same as Eubank did against Calzaghe ,Watson etc Taylor can reclaim his best form again IMO but he has to tighten up defensively and find an effective way to enhance his stamina

I think Kelly needs a little more time at MW, but the signs are there, he certainly has the heart of a champ and he hasn't ducked anyone. I do get a bit pissed off when people rate his ko power to the point you'd think he was Tyson or Shavers, but you got to give the boy some credit for getting to where he is

thanks for green k ill send some back your way dude TBH i dont think Taylor can overcome his stamina problems it might be that he is always gonna have stamina trouble like Oscar i mean from what i hear he was in tremendous shape against Pavlik in the second fight & he secluded himself away from his freinds and family to train which i dont think he has ever done before whilst in traning camp his family yes but i dont think he has ever not been in contact with his freinds during training camp but for all this Taylor still tired against Pavlik towards the end of the fight ,obviously i dont know its just what i heard yeah i agree i saw the McKart fight and Pavlik did get caught a helluva a lot in that fight For Taylor, I think he rose to the top too quickly, then allowed too much pressure on himself. He gets too keyed up during his fights and is too emotional in the ring. If his trainer can capture what he was when he was up and coming, he may find that relaxation he once had in the ring come back. Everyone put so much pressure on him to perform and took potshots at the guy left and right. Maybe the two Pavlik fights will help him. He still has a lot to offer if he can find what took him to the top. I won't write him off yet, he may come back and falter, or he may surprise us all. He seems like a great guy and I wish him all the luck.

If Taylor can overcome his stamina issues, he could very well be the guy to beat again. Miranda is an enigma who has the potential to beat anyone, but is not tame enough to see his full potential. That could change also. we will know more about both guys in the next year of where they stand. I think the type that will truly test Pavlik is a Southpaw with good lateral movement. We both know who that fighter is. :D If Pavlik has an answer to that puzzle, then he has answered all his questions. Pavlik has sloppy foot positioning and has only faced one southpaw that i can think of at the top of my head, he stopped the guy (McKart), but had a hell of a time landing against him. McKart is no Joe Calzaghe either, although he was a crafty good fighter when he was in his prime. Sent you some green K Terrible. Great arguments. These are the type of posts I like to see. thanks for green k ill send some back your way dude TBH i dont think Taylor can overcome his stamina problems it might be that he is always gonna have stamina trouble like Oscar i mean from what i hear he was in tremendous shape against Pavlik in the second fight & he secluded himself away from his freinds and family to train which i dont think he has ever done before whilst in traning camp his family yes but i dont think he has ever not been in contact with his freinds during training camp but for all this Taylor still tired against Pavlik towards the end of the fight ,obviously i dont know its just what i heard yeah i agree i saw the McKart fight and Pavlik did get caught a helluva a lot in that fight

u maybe right about Taylor but i dont see how he can get hurt against Hopkins due to being gassed when niether fighter threw hardly anything over the coarse of 12 rounds ,regardless of that the point im trying to make is Taylor is vulnerable wether it is lack of durability or bad defence or bad stamine the point is he is susceptable to getting hurt especially late in fights & u dont have to be a huge hitter to be able to hurt him i think Miranda is a nearly man a guy who is gonna give any fighter a stiff test but he aint never gonna achieve much If Taylor can overcome his stamina issues, he could very well be the guy to beat again. Miranda is an enigma who has the potential to beat anyone, but is not tame enough to see his full potential. That could change also. we will know more about both guys in the next year of where they stand. I think the type that will truly test Pavlik is a Southpaw with good lateral movement. We both know who that fighter is. :D If Pavlik has an answer to that puzzle, then he has answered all his questions. Pavlik has sloppy foot positioning and has only faced one southpaw that i can think of at the top of my head, he stopped the guy (McKart), but had a hell of a time landing against him. McKart is no Joe Calzaghe either, although he was a crafty good fighter when he was in his prime. Sent you some green K Terrible. Great arguments. These are the type of posts I like to see.

Taylor just gets gassed, but he has a pretty good chin. He just tires out and gets vulnerable. Miranda is actually a bit underrated I think, but Pavlik attacked his weakness and made him back up. Miranda is a tough cookie and he will do well against guys who try to fight him on the outside. He clips guys who try to retreat from him. Miranda is another guy that is deceptive. He has probably the longest arms of anyone in the 160-168 class. He is a dangerous guy to try to box as that right hand can reach. u maybe right about Taylor but i dont see how he can get hurt against Hopkins due to being gassed when niether fighter threw hardly anything over the coarse of 12 rounds ,regardless of that the point im trying to make is Taylor is vulnerable wether it is lack of durability or bad defence or bad stamine the point is he is susceptable to getting hurt especially late in fights & u dont have to be a huge hitter to be able to hurt him i think Miranda is a nearly man a guy who is gonna give any fighter a stiff test but he aint never gonna achieve much

good post dont get me wrong i like watching Pavlik fight & i do think he is a good fighter but i dont think he is in that Elite Level i see Pavlik on the same level as guys like of Eubank ,Benn ,very good fighters but just shy of Elite IMO i aint saying Taylor is chinny but lets face it if he had a chin like Hopkins ,Toney ,Calzaghe ,Eubank ,he would not have been knocked out by Pavlik & hurt by Winky & Hopkins ,Pavlik put Miranda away granted but Miranda was clearly overated ,Howard Eastman had Miranda going aswell & Eastman aint exactly a puncher good wins but Taylor & Miranda had bigger reputations than they deserved IMO Taylor just gets gassed, but he has a pretty good chin. He just tires out and gets vulnerable. Miranda is actually a bit underrated I think, but Pavlik attacked his weakness and made him back up. Miranda is a tough cookie and he will do well against guys who try to fight him on the outside. He clips guys who try to retreat from him. Miranda is another guy that is deceptive. He has probably the longest arms of anyone in the 160-168 class. He is a dangerous guy to try to box as that right hand can reach.

Taylor was indeed ready to give that title away, but Kelly took it in style. I say a little of both.

Don't get me wrong, Pavlik as a GOOD champion, but he isn't a GREAT champion. He isn't in the same league as the likes of Hopkins, Monzon, Hagler but he is a league above Taylor, Joppy etc.

I don't consider Pavlik a great champion, but a solid champion at this point. He has faced adversity against some very good opposition and overcame it. I predicted he would lose to both Miranda and Taylor and he crushed both of them. I then realized what I was seeing in the ring was not a sloppy, kinda weak looking fighter, but an enormously strong fighter with underrated skills. In the second taylor fight, he proved he could box some also. Maybe in some upcoming fights he will show more of what he has. I will give him these traits, which I think is contributing to his success. 1: Jab (very long, decently fast and with great power.) 2: Power ( he has above average power and delivers them over and over) 3: Straight Punching (This may be the biggest thing in his favor. His punches are very straight and can thread the needle of any fighter. The shortest distance between two objects is a straight line and it also helps with his lack of speed) 4: Determination: (You will not find a guy more determined than this guy) 5: Finisher: (You will not find a better finisher. If he gets you hurt, he will get you) You can also mix size, reach, strength and tenacity into the mix. He also has a wide effective punching range, he is good at inside and outside fighting, which is somewhat rare. He is more well rounded than what we see with our eyes. I think those traits are able to overcome his lack of finesse, speed and sloppy footwork. He still has a long way to go to be considered great, and if he does lose, the winner will know after the fight that they were in a tough one. He will test the heart and will of any fighter he faces. good post dont get me wrong i like watching Pavlik fight & i do think he is a good fighter but i dont think he is in that Elite Level i see Pavlik on the same level as guys like of Eubank ,Benn ,very good fighters but just shy of Elite IMO i aint saying Taylor is chinny but lets face it if he had a chin like Hopkins ,Toney ,Calzaghe ,Eubank ,he would not have been knocked out by Pavlik & hurt by Winky & Hopkins ,Pavlik put Miranda away granted but Miranda was clearly overated ,Howard Eastman had Miranda going aswell & Eastman aint exactly a puncher good wins but Taylor & Miranda had bigger reputations than they deserved IMO

He still has some fights to win to be a truely great champion. I feel he definitely worked his way to be the champ right now and it wasn't easy. Beating a tough Miranda and beating JT twice. I still think some people downplay what kind of champ he is because he's not very fast, seems to throw that one-two quite often and isn't a physical looking specimen. The thing is though is he does what he does well and has good heart and determination. Plus he's potent with both hands. We'll find out more after a while though in his next big fights.

I don't consider Pavlik a great champion, but a solid champion at this point. He has faced adversity against some very good opposition and overcame it. I predicted he would lose to both Miranda and Taylor and he crushed both of them. I then realized what I was seeing in the ring was not a sloppy, kinda weak looking fighter, but an enormously strong fighter with underrated skills. In the second taylor fight, he proved he could box some also. Maybe in some upcoming fights he will show more of what he has. I will give him these traits, which I think is contributing to his success. 1: Jab (very long, decently fast and with great power.) 2: Power ( he has above average power and delivers them over and over) 3: Straight Punching (This may be the biggest thing in his favor. His punches are very straight and can thread the needle of any fighter. The shortest distance between two objects is a straight line and it also helps with his lack of speed) 4: Determination: (You will not find a guy more determined than this guy) 5: Finisher: (You will not find a better finisher. If he gets you hurt, he will get you) You can also mix size, reach, strength and tenacity into the mix. He also has a wide effective punching range, he is good at inside and outside fighting, which is somewhat rare. He is more well rounded than what we see with our eyes. I think those traits are able to overcome his lack of finesse, speed and sloppy footwork. He still has a long way to go to be considered great, and if he does lose, the winner will know after the fight that they were in a tough one. He will test the heart and will of any fighter he faces.

No. That's not a fair assessment. He knocked people out on his way to the mw championship. Then took a rematch at a catch weight and got the decision over a very determined Taylor. He earned his stripes and there was no luck in what he did. Especially since he knocked guys out. You can say a decsion was lucky but he put guys away.

He is a great champ and it is unfair to down play taylor. he may have had controversial decision with bhop and winky, but he was right there in those fights regardless of who you think won. taylor is no slouch, and a very good fighter. i view kelly as a great champ with a little less skill/finesse, and a ton more heart than most. the middle weight div is my favorite, and he has made me a huge fan of it again.

Pavlik is a legitamitely good champion. He was an underdog againt both Miranda and Taylor and knocked them both out. Taylor and Miranda both have good chins.

I'm inclined to agree that Pavlik is a case of "right time/right place". He isn't terribly skilled though he has a decent jab a strong right hand, he isn't the hardest puncher though he packs enough to stop someone if he catches them right, he doesn;t have the best chin though he can get up and finish strong. But he is better than the previous champ who never really seemed to believe he deserved to be the champ. i agree i dont think he has a bad chin TBH though he does'nt stack up well against other top Middleweights or SMW of yester year IMO ,Toney ,Calzaghe ,Hopkins ,Eubank, Roy Jones would own him i know Pavlik fights at MW but in reallity the guy is 168 lbs fighter possibly a 175lbs he sits in a steam room before every fight & he is 6 ft 2 i think its safe to say 160lbs is not his natural weight

I'm inclined to agree that Pavlik is a case of "right time/right place". He isn't terribly skilled though he has a decent jab a strong right hand, he isn't the hardest puncher though he packs enough to stop someone if he catches them right, he doesn;t have the best chin though he can get up and finish strong. But he is better than the previous champ who never really seemed to believe he deserved to be the champ. I think he's already passed the chin test. He's eaten right hands from Miranda with no problem, he got hit with 6-8 bombs in row from Taylor (who CAN punch) before going down only to get right back up and take some more. I agree that's he's fairly limited but he's good at what he does. I also don't think his power shouldn't be questioned either. Miranda, Taylor, and Zertuche each looked like they took 4 slugs to the body after going down. Those guys were OUT.

Pavlik doesn't want to lose his 0, so he'll never fight joe calzaghe :boxing:

I'm inclined to agree that Pavlik is a case of "right time/right place". He isn't terribly skilled though he has a decent jab a strong right hand, he isn't the hardest puncher though he packs enough to stop someone if he catches them right, he doesn;t have the best chin though he can get up and finish strong. But he is better than the previous champ who never really seemed to believe he deserved to be the champ. I agree with that part.