..COTTO/MAYWEATHER: What The Numbers Mean...

People have been using Cotto's LOW HBO numbers as a reason that Mayweather SHOULDN'T fight Cotto. They were low, however people seem to forget that other sports were on at the time, not to mention FREE boxing on a rival channel. And now they make it seem as if Mayweather is this HUGE drawing star, and Cotto has no name to speak of. It's just not true. Mayweather is the bigger star. Has more drawing power. I'm not arguing that. What I'm talking about is the fact that Cotto would add to a huge event. IN terms of attendance, I don't think the comparison even needs to be made. Their common opponent with a name is Judah, and Mayweather/Judah had seats available the day OF the fight. Meanwhile, Cotto/Judah set records at MADISON SQUARE GARDEN. Baldomir/Mayweather had even less fans in attendance and had fans leaving towards the end of the fight. Hatton proved to be the draw at the gate, as his fans were far outnumbering Mayweathers. Even AFTER the fight. Furthermore, Hatton got more buys out of the PPV in the U.K. De La Hoya is De La Hoya, all that really needs to be said. You can make the argument that Mayweather got Hatton AND Oscar their BIGGEST fights. And technically you'd be right. But, NOT because HE was fighting them. Because they were fighting him. There's a BIG difference. Numbers are numbers, but there's a difference. When you look at the LOW TV numbers for Cotto/Gomez, you need to factor in some things. There was little to NO build-up for the fight. No countdown, no big promotion, no 24/7, no big name in the other corner and no hope for his opponent, and he still pulled in 2.1 million views. Calzaghe/Kessler pulled in similar numbers, and if you mean to tell me that Calzaghe isn't a draw, you're crazy. And That was Calzaghe's BIGGEST and BEST FOE. Cotto fought a fighter with no chance and a little buzz. Mayweather was drawing in about 8,000 fans before his bigger fights started happening. Cotto sold out the garden with a virtual unknown in Paulie Malignaggi. I forget what that PPV did, but that one wasn't even involving HBO, and I remember the numbers were pretty respectable. Let's take a look at the numbers of their last three fights. Cotto/Judah, 225k+ Cotto/Gomez, 2.1M (cable rating)+ Cotto/Mosley, 400K+ Mayweather/De La Hoya, 2.4M+ Mayweather/Hatton, 800K+ Mayweather/Badlomir, 300K+ You look at those, and it looks like Mayweather is killing Cotto. But if you take off Hatton and De La Hoya (the TRUE draws in their respected fights) and you replace them with Judah(330K) and Gatti(340K), and it evens out. Take off the Gomez fight, due to no sales and replace it with someone even LESS known on a world level, like Malignaggi WAS at the time. He got 170K+ buys. It would mean a difference of 155K. BIG FUCKIN' DEAL. This is NO EXCUSE for Mayweather to ignore Cotto. None at all.

Comments (20)

Just because people mention with fighters picking fights based on economics doesn't mean they necessarily are fully fledged nuthuggers or whatever you want to call it. I don't like Ricky Hatton...I just don't like the guy, I don't buy his image. But I always have this debate with another boxing fan in my household...I can understand why, at this stage in his career, he flat out refuses to fight Junior Witter. After a defeat, why would you rush headlong into another potentially dangerous fight where you could lose? Boxing is a career to these people and they begin to think very strategically once they get to a certain level. As Paulie Malinaggi said, it's a disgrace how Ricky is ducking Junior Witter, but, I think I can see where these guys are coming from sometimes. As far as Ricky Hatton's ducking of Witter goes, i can understand to an extent aswell. I feel Ricky needs a confidence building fight prior to facing Witter. He just came off of a big loss that screwed him up mentally and now needs to get his head and confidence back. With that said, after 1-2 fights, Ricky SHOULD be facing Witter if both remain victorious in thier next couple fights.

18y ago

deevel79

i want to see floyd fight cotto, same an every1 else! but floyd's been training since he could walk, humans have not evolved to put their bodies under that much stress, no way floyd lives to see 70 because his body is fucked; am gonna cut him sum slack if he wants to cash in! :boxing: I dont mind him cashing in, but if he's not gonna give the deserving WW's a chance at the crown, then i feel he should relenquish his title, and let the real fighters battle it out for it.

18y ago

froggy

As a fan of the sport, which option would u choose? You're not Floyd, so stop putting yourself in his shoes. As much as u pray, you will never be him. You are a fan, so why should u care which option is more beneficial to Floyd. i want to see floyd fight cotto, same an every1 else! but floyd's been training since he could walk, humans have not evolved to put their bodies under that much stress, no way floyd lives to see 70 because his body is fucked; am gonna cut him sum slack if he wants to cash in! :boxing:

18y ago

Shem

As a fan of the sport, which option would u choose? You're not Floyd, so stop putting yourself in his shoes. As much as u pray, you will never be him. You are a fan, so why should u care which option is more beneficial to Floyd. Just because people mention with fighters picking fights based on economics doesn't mean they necessarily are fully fledged nuthuggers or whatever you want to call it. I don't like Ricky Hatton...I just don't like the guy, I don't buy his image. But I always have this debate with another boxing fan in my household...I can understand why, at this stage in his career, he flat out refuses to fight Junior Witter. After a defeat, why would you rush headlong into another potentially dangerous fight where you could lose? Boxing is a career to these people and they begin to think very strategically once they get to a certain level. As Paulie Malinaggi said, it's a disgrace how Ricky is ducking Junior Witter, but, I think I can see where these guys are coming from sometimes.

18y ago

deevel79

fair point, maybe he thinks he can make more money elsewhere (hatton), also de la hoya doesnt have a lot to lose even if he gets beat of cotto, mayweather does! u can hate him for ducking cotto if u want, but it makes economic sense to fight the big show over cotto and money talks. option 1 (cotto) - put your health and legacy on the line and commit to months of extreme training option 2 (big show) - make more money in a no risk acting situation! what would u choose? im going for option 2 personally. As a fan of the sport, which option would u choose? You're not Floyd, so stop putting yourself in his shoes. As much as u pray, you will never be him. You are a fan, so why should u care which option is more beneficial to Floyd.

18y ago

THe_TRiNiTY

I mean this honestly, it was fun debating the subject.

18y ago

THe_TRiNiTY

My final point. Mayweathers legacy would be enhanced WAY more against Cotto than against either Oscar or Ricky at this point. He can cash in all he wants, but if he waits around too long he will lose money and a peice of his legacy. If he makes Cotto look bad, so what? He's at a point where you can attribute it to his skills not Cotto's lack of skills. Most people know that.

18y ago

Shem

I said I know for a fact that SOME Floyd fans fear it might be happening. Yes, that IS fact. My sister is a Floyd fan, for example and is starting to lose patience with Mayweather for this exact reason. I don't believe in this 'waiting game'. I think that's Mayweathers way for waiting it out, in hopes of Cotto losing. This isn't fact, just my theory. I know you don't agree. You don't have to. Fine...I don't agree, because having read what he has to say about Cotto, I think he thinks he can beat him. He's not scared of him imo. I think he's just extending he's new found status and exerting a bit of power because he has had to wait a long time for it. I made this point earlier today - I personally feel his stock will plummet if he loses, so I understand in a sense the need to wait, but I think he's at risk if he waits any longer, Cotto is a killer..but, I think he can beat him. I'm not so sure he can neutralise Margarito, but that's a different point.

18y ago

Horus8731

So, you mean to tell me... That if Mayweather beat Cotto, you really don't see fans appreciated Mayweather EVEN more, than if he beat Hatton or De La Hoya again? Maybe that's not important, but for legacy it is. Fans build legacies. Not bank accounts. That post had nothing to do with money but everything to do with Legacy

18y ago

Horus8731

Like the thread Vladimir Made: hypothetically speaking, what if Floyd makes Cotto look like Baldomir or even scores a Tko in a one sided fight as there is a possibility that he might? Usually when Floyd is the favorite to win and when no upsets happen and he wins like he won against Hatton........breakouts of overrated, past his prime come out. A victory over a Top 10 P4P, 44-0, 2-division champion was criticized. A guy who actually beat a real champion in Tszyu to win his title, not just win vacant belts. Cotto may have done it more impressive and the perception is that he is a bigger threat but what if he isnt? How is Cotto any better then Hatton on paper? How does a victory over Cotto figure into Mayweather's legacy? He won't go down as the greatest either way. For him to get any type of LEGACY ENHANCING credit, the victory would have to be the equivalent of Ali beating Frazier or Leonard beating Hearns. Is Cotto all that? If he isn't, what's the problem with him cashing in and going after the big money rematches? Oh yea the hardcore fans.......the same fans who didn't tune in to watch Cotto on Free HBO. Vladimir made a credible argument that most Floyd fans make..... This argument...is what the problem..."Cotto needs to build his boxing prestige"

18y ago

THe_TRiNiTY

My whole point is that I want to eliminate the most credible excuses anybody can have about The significance of Floyd beating Cotto.. he never fought a young, prime, active, p4p fighter before he fought floyd is a credible argument to downplay the significances a win over cotto is.. he only won his titles by fighting in Vacant matches is a credible argument to downplay the significance a win over cotto is.. Cotto was never highly ranked in the P4P list anyways So this win is not that impressive.....is a credible argument to downplay the significance a win over cotto is.. I will say this again: Cotto is a good fighter..... But if he was to fight Mayweather right now.... Only thing Cotto would be consider as is "Mayweather biggest threat" It wouldn't be a fight in which two great fighters are fighting each other... It would be another... "Mayweather could possibly lose this fight..." not "Cotto could win this fight" Or "This fight would determine who is the greatest" because cotto haven't done enough to be consider to be the great.. If Cotto beat Mayweather right now he would be like "Vernon Forrest" or "Winky Wright" Yeah he Beat Mosley, but what other great fighters have he beaten... Sidenote: (They beat Mosely in his prime) but if he beat Mayweather after he got the 2 other belts...against prime opponents He could be another "Trinidad" or maybe "Duran" You see I want this fight to determine something...of significance I dont want to fight just prove Mayweather is the best, because we already know he is the best.. This my point.... So, you mean to tell me... That if Mayweather beat Cotto, you really don't see fans appreciated Mayweather EVEN more, than if he beat Hatton or De La Hoya again? Maybe that's not important, but for legacy it is. Fans build legacies. Not bank accounts.

18y ago

froggy

I never said it wouldn't. But an OLDER fighter in De La Hoya is fighting THIS YEAR, AFTER the fight with Mayweather. Why couldn't a YOUNGER fighter like Mayweather fight in the beginning of NEXT YEAR? I know it's a ways off so it still COULD happen. But, he refuses to even discuss it. fair point, maybe he thinks he can make more money elsewhere (hatton), also de la hoya doesnt have a lot to lose even if he gets beat of cotto, mayweather does! u can hate him for ducking cotto if u want, but it makes economic sense to fight the big show over cotto and money talks. option 1 (cotto) - put your health and legacy on the line and commit to months of extreme training option 2 (big show) - make more money in a no risk acting situation! what would u choose? im going for option 2 personally.

18y ago

THe_TRiNiTY

Is that what it's called? Oh, OK. Emphasis. I care about facts as they happen, yes. What are the facts as they stand then? You know, about Floyd quite possibly ducking Cotto? You know that for a fact do you? I said Floyd was stalling for whatever reason, so really there's no point in talking to me about nuthuggers. I know Cotto's worshippers tend to say he's ducking him, the fight will never happen, yada yada yada. They do that just so they can get in more bitching sessions - it's up to them. Bottom line - he has not said he will not fight him...he said he has to WAIT- as I've said in my original post. I said I know for a fact that SOME Floyd fans fear it might be happening. Yes, that IS fact. My sister is a Floyd fan, for example and is starting to lose patience with Mayweather for this exact reason. I don't believe in this 'waiting game'. I think that's Mayweathers way for waiting it out, in hopes of Cotto losing. This isn't fact, just my theory. I know you don't agree. You don't have to.

18y ago

Shem

It's called emphasis. Is that your contribution to this discussion? Really? I'm sitting over here calm, cool and collected. Trust me, this is no hissy fit. A hissy fit would be what Floyd's nuthuggers do when they realize that it's quite possible Floyd may be ducking Cotto. I've been rational to a fault, if you ask me. But then again, I doubt you care about.. you know.. Facts. Is that what it's called? Oh, OK. Emphasis. I care about facts as they happen, yes. What are the facts as they stand then? You know, about Floyd quite possibly ducking Cotto? You know that for a fact do you? I said Floyd was stalling for whatever reason, so really there's no point in talking to me about nuthuggers. I know Cotto's worshippers tend to say he's ducking him, the fight will never happen, yada yada yada. They do that just so they can get in more bitching sessions - it's up to them. Bottom line - he has not said he will not fight him...he said he has to WAIT- as I've said in my original post.

18y ago

Horus8731

18y ago

IMDAZED

I'm not assuming that he's money hungry. And people sue people all the time and do business with them. De La Hoya sued Arum. Look at the fights that were made. Arum sued Oscar, AS THEY DID BUSINESS. All this after De La Hoya claimed to have 'beaten the biggest Jew that came out of Harvard.' In terms of all that independant stuff, I think it's too allow Mayweather to deal with Cotto DIRECTLY. Which would allow Mayweather to gain more money IF they did fight. I think that's wrong. This is ONE time that having Arum in your corner, could be a good thing. I don't understand what you're saying. And I think vice-versa. Let me spell it out for you: The chances of Floyd Mayweather doing business with Bob Arum are very, very LOW. VERY. And it goes waay back, from Floyd feeling Arum improperly promoted him for many years (while building up lesser hispanic fighters like Erik Morales) and then not giving him fights against these guys (they were 4-8 pounds apart at most). Floyd didn't start seeing eight figures until he went out on his own. And now he's suing him for back pay? Hell no, this fight isn't happening. And if you think it's because Floyd's scared, I've got soem cheap oil to sell you in the US (not directed atyou but at those who make that claim). What about when both were at 140 and Floyd called him out endlessly? You think he got scared after watching him go life and death with Mosley? Or beat up on a reality show fighter? Not in the least.

18y ago

THe_TRiNiTY

If mayweather loses to Oscar....Then obivious a rematch is in order... and if Cotto loses to margarito then obviously a rematch is order...... Srl vs. Hagler wasnt a fight between two undefeated fighters Floyd vs. Oscar wasnt a match between two undefeated fighters But it was still a great boxing match and event.... But i am not worrying about Floyd losing... but the question are you worrying about Cotto losing...? How COULD I be worried about either one if I want them to fight eachother. Clearly, one will have to lose. I'm not even saying I'm pciking Cotto. I probably wouldn't. I just want to see the fight. For the record, Hagler/Leonard was big because it was the last TRULY big fight for either.

18y ago

Horus8731

And what about if Cotto or Mayweather lose before they fight? How do you hype up the fight bigger then 'Two Undefeated Prime Fighters' with one or BOTH of them having a loss? Waiting too long only brings upon problems. If mayweather loses to Oscar....Then obivious a rematch is in order... and if Cotto loses to margarito then obviously a rematch is order...... Srl vs. Hagler wasnt a fight between two undefeated fighters Floyd vs. Oscar wasnt a match between two undefeated fighters But it was still a great boxing match and event.... But i am not worrying about Floyd losing... but the question are you worrying about Cotto losing...?

18y ago

THe_TRiNiTY

ok i want to see mayweather-cotto, but u have to accept that mayweather can make more money doing other things; de la hoya rematch WILL make mayweather more money than cotto right? I never said it wouldn't. But an OLDER fighter in De La Hoya is fighting THIS YEAR, AFTER the fight with Mayweather. Why couldn't a YOUNGER fighter like Mayweather fight in the beginning of NEXT YEAR? I know it's a ways off so it still COULD happen. But, he refuses to even discuss it.

18y ago

THe_TRiNiTY

Here is my repost So basically it is ok for Oscar to make Floyd meet all his stipulations and standards... which amounted in Floyd waiting for 6 years....For Oscar to fight Floyd and it is ok that SRL made Hagler Wait until he meet all his stipulations and standards... which amounted in Hagler waiting for 7 years For the SRL vs. Hagler fight to happen But it is not ok for Floyd to make Cotto meet all his stipulations and standards...:thinking: before the Floyd vs. Cotto fight can happen..!! Double Standard once again....:nonono: But here is the common factor in any those situations, 1. the fight eventually happen 2. When the fight happen it was the biggest thing in Boxing....!!! So why Cant Floyd follow a successful Format...!! if it works....???? I not saying Have cotto wait 7 years...or 6 years in Floyd case.... But why not let Cotto wait, and let the fight Build up to what it should be...!!! Obviously this format works...!!! and plus cotto needs to build his boxing prestige..... And what about if Cotto or Mayweather lose before they fight? How do you hype up the fight bigger then 'Two Undefeated Prime Fighters' with one or BOTH of them having a loss? Waiting too long only brings upon problems.

18y ago