Prime Vitali Klitschko vs Prime Mike Tyson

bums who didn't know how to fight................. and they, apart from tillis, would be?.........

in which particular fights early in tysons career did he get hit alot and/or stunned? granted tillis caught him, what others? bums who didn't know how to fight.................

Nobody was able to hit young Mike because his early record was filled with past thier past greats and bums. Tillis was the only person to take Tyson into deep waters and really test him. and Vitali would hit Mike at will. again, he is in perfect range for Vitali to pick his spots and work. and its laughable how you say that Vitali still lost like he was a beaten fighter, which he was not. The fight was stopped on cuts and he was winning the fight. Its laughable how you are ignoring all of this and only going by the bad things about Vitali. i see you switched roles, you went from saying that it was a hard fight to choose, to totally defending Tyson and down grading Vitali. wow! I say that he fought life and death with him because he failed to beat a journeyman contender who exposed him. He exposed Tyson as a front runner. If you could make it past the middle rounds with Tyson, you would usually have a shot at beating him because of his lack of heart and insecurity. and i thought that Tyson was suppose to be better than Morrison? Morrison was not as hyped up as Tyson. and again you are missing the point. when you said that Vitali quit against Byrd, i said that the thread starter wanted to know who would win at thier absoulte best. Vitali was in his prime when he fought Byrd but he didn't always break up, which means he was not at his best. ? I actually dont get the point. care to explain? Thats what fighters do. Tyson had limited options. Either look bad and go the distance with a fighter who you were suppose to blow out, leting him hold you and be critisized, or blow him out and look good. He choose to look bad against a fighter that a green Lennox Lewis tourched. (Smith) Bone crusher showed what he could have done earlier instead of being scared. Again, he didn't look shot against Morrison or Lewis. He actually had Morrison down a few times. where was he shot? Tyson got hit a lot when he was young and in his prime so i dont know where you are getting these impressions from. when he would get stunned, he would back up and the bums that he were fighting never jumped on him because they were just that, bums who were spoon fed to Tyson. again, PRIME means fighters at thier best. Vitali was at his best when he fought Lennox. did he break his hands in that fight? no, he didn't. Its laughable the way you are repeatedly ignoring the fact that Tyson loss confidence when he was in hard fights when you even mentioned it yourself in one of your other posts. even in his prime, when fighters actually fought him back, he would loose confidence and just follow his opponent around the ring like he was confused. If Douglas and Holyfield had enough power to get Tyson out, Vitali would surley get the job done. again he has knockout percentage over 90%. We probably have not even seen Vitali at his best yet. He will fight the winner of Peter/Maskaev and lets see how he does. If he is at 100% with his injuries, he will beat both of them and pretty easily. in which particular fights early in tysons career did he get hit alot and/or stunned? granted tillis caught him, what others?

Benny Leonard;3000826]Did I say Lewis was "shot"...NO, I said he was 38 and past his prime and Vitali still lost. He was still "Champion" because the division sucked. Lewis had a tough fight with Bruno, came through. Tough fight with Mercer, came through. Lewis landed a brutal uppercut that had Vitali holding. Lewis started to come on. A great fighter knows how to get his second-wind. My point with Tyson is that Vitali would have to come down to fight him, which leaves a tall fighter exposed. Wlad's reach is 80' inches, despite being 6'7. Nobody was abe to hit Vitali that often because nobody else was as skilled as Lewis. It's like a young Tyson, how many times did he really get hit because of his head movement, and basing it on Vitali's speed of punch, it doesn't favor Vitali hitting him that often...Wlad has the shot to land more often. Nobody was able to hit young Mike because his early record was filled with past thier prime greats and bums. Tillis was the only person to take Tyson into deep waters and really test him. and Vitali would hit Mike at will. again, he is in perfect range for Vitali to pick his spots and work. and its laughable how you say that Vitali still lost like he was a beaten fighter, which he was not. The fight was stopped on cuts and he was winning the fight. Its also laughable how you are ignoring all of this and only going by the bad things about Vitali. i see you switched roles, you went from saying that it was a hard fight to choose, to totally defending Tyson and down grading Vitali. wow! Again, you exaggeration is amazing: "Life and Death" :nonono: It's called he wasn't sure he could make it the distance so he was questioning the entire time and on cruise control. Tyson said he wanted to "quit."? Tyson has said fighters want to quit but they push past it. Get it right. Vitali quit against Byrd, don't forget. And this wasn't a prime Tyson...he was still coming into himself. He was what 19, almost 20 and still gaining experience. And have we forgot that Tommy was a big puncher? I say that he fought life and death with him because he failed to beat a journeyman contender who exposed him. He exposed Tyson as a front runner. If you could make it past the middle rounds with Tyson, you would usually have a shot at beating him because of his lack of heart and insecurity. and i thought that Tyson was suppose to be better than Morrison? Morrison was not as hyped up as Tyson. and again you are missing the point. when you said that Vitali quit against Byrd, i said that the thread starter wanted to know who would win at thier absoulte best. Vitali was in his prime when he fought Byrd but he didn't always break up, which means he was not at his best. Look at Wlad vs. Peter. Peter was stunned once, towards the end, yet it was McCline who put him down a few times and almost had him out. See the point? I actually dont get the point. care to explain? He stunned him, but Tyson fought back like he did against Ruddock. The point I made is that Smith wasn't opening up, which is why Tyson got comfortable in thinking Smith wasn't going to hit. Remember Bruno and Ruddock when they stunned Mike, what happened? Mike fought back, adjusted and controlled the fight. Mike needs you to throw back to have an openining to hit. For pushing off a bigger, stronger fighter, through the course of a fight is absurd and will only wear you out. You let the ref break you up and don't expend the energy. This isn't some lower weight class bullshit, this is the HW division where a fighter can out-weigh you by a lot. Tyson was 215-220, Smith was 230+ and was strong. Thats what fighters do. Tyson had limited options. Either look bad and go the distance with a fighter who you were suppose to blow out, leting him hold you and be critisized, or blow him out and look good. He choose to look bad against a fighter that a green Lennox Lewis tourched. (Smith) Bone crusher showed what he could have done earlier instead of being scared.This is what Ruddock said. So you are telling me you never seen a fighter get whooped in a fight, especially going one after the other against a power puncher, and not be the same in future fights? Unless you are Ruddock, I suggest you keep quite. Again, he didn't look shot against Morrison or Lewis. He actually had Morrison down a few times. where was he shot? Who doesn't have the best defense in the World, a young-Tyson??? Please tell me you are joking...Tyson had a very good defense. You missed the point again...No, he is not "taylor made for him." When you punch down your hands are down south, far away from getting your hands back to block, with your body tilted towards down at the fighter, leaving you exposed for a fighter as small as Tyson, who would only fight smaller, in order to make Vitali drop even lower. Yes, I see your point, Vitai isn't stiff, he is another Ali.:nonono: It's what Tyson does good that helps him. His head-movement, speed in body, timing and combinations and power in both hands help him. Tyson got hit a lot when he was young and in his prime so i dont know where you are getting these impressions from. when he would get stunned, he would back up and the bums that he were fighting never jumped on him because they were just that, bums who were spoon fed to Tyson. Soooo, Vitali wasn't at his best against Byrd? Didn't know Vitali wasn't a finished product. Did he have personal problems that he would work out? Fighters fight with injuries. Fighters have fought with broken hands, ribs, torn shoulder, jaw, etc. How didn't Tyson have heart, please explain? again, PRIME means fighters at thier best. Vitali was at his best when he fought Lennox. did he break his hands in that fight? no, he didn't. Its laughable the way you are repeatedly ignoring the fact that Tyson loss confidence when he was in hard fights when you even mentioned it yourself in one of your other posts. even in his prime, when fighters actually fought him back, he would loose confidence and just follow his opponent around the ring like he was confused. He fought a 6'5 fighter. Vitali is 6'7. For reach, Vitali has an 80' inch reach...Tyson's fought longer. Vitali doesn't have devastating power...heavy handed power, but not devastating. If Douglas and Holyfield had enough power to get Tyson out, Vitali would surley get the job done. again he has knockout percentage over 90%. Lennox doesn't have a weak chin, but it isn't Iron either. Vitali wears his opponents out with his heavy hands, which is a credit to him. We probably have not even seen Vitali at his best yet. He will fight the winner of Peter/Maskaev and lets see how he does. If he is at 100% with his injuries, he will beat both of them and pretty easily.

71% of the people are a mix of racist,nationalist morons that think Prime Tyson was invincible. Hey Brother Blues, are you gonna try losing some weight in the New Year or are you just gonna go with the old fashioned liposuction? Fat American slobs like you make me sick...you probably haven't even seen your cock before you disgusting fat fuck.:owned: Your post sums you up but I'll leave room for your adjustment if you care to go on further.

71% of the people are a mix of racist,nationalist morons that think Prime Tyson was invincible. Hey Brother Blues, are you gonna try losing some weight in the New Year or are you just gonna go with the old fashioned liposuction? Fat American slobs like you make me sick...you probably haven't even seen your cock before you disgusting fat fuck.:owned: so your saying the overwhelming majority are......wrong? y dont you just find a klitchko site to stroke to coz you cant seem to be able to discuss boxing rationally

Hmmm,71% of the people think the Klit would get killed. Oh well Wlad...you will have to think of another way to shine Klitschko's balls today. 71% of the people are a mix of racist,nationalist morons that think Prime Tyson was invincible. Hey Brother Blues, are you gonna try losing some weight in the New Year or are you just gonna go with the old fashioned liposuction? Fat American slobs like you make me sick...you probably haven't even seen your cock before you disgusting fat fuck.:owned:

Hmmm,71% of the people think the Klit would get killed. Oh well Wlad...you will have to think of another way to shine Klitschko's balls today.

All this poll proves is that Mike Tyson is one of the most overrated fighters of all time. If that joke Buster Douglas can destroy prime Tyson than Vitali definately could as well. I've said it once and I will say it again....Vitali klitschko destroys prime Tyson in 8 rounds.:boxing: Again, and I like how people continue to do this...Factors are involved with Tyson's loss to Douglas. He was not the same fighter. If you are not right mentally and physically the same as you were before, living a different lifestyle, are not training, not training with the same trainer, that's not the same. Tyson peaked with Spinks. After that, down hill. Training and Motivation is big. Just look at Douglas's career. Not motivated for most of his career, then finally decides to go all out, wins several fights in a row, fights Tyson, is motivated for his mother, and performs great. The other side to this was Tyson, who was once high on boxing, fell off prior to this fight. And what happened to Douglas right after this fight, he went to shit and packed it in. Factors of life. I actually think this fight isn't a Mike destroys Vitali, Vitali destroys Mike type of fight. To many questions for both. And you know what, Douglas is actually the sharper, faster, and more accurate puncher between him and Vitali...not to mention athletically better, but Vitali is 6'7, so it is harder for him.

Tyson wouldn't even be able to get near vitali at all, vitali would jab tyson to death just like Lennox lewis did. Tysons too damn short. Didn't know we are talking about a shot/past prime, overweight, unmotivated, pot smoker version of Tyson. Agree Vitali would whoop him like Lennox did.

Two words. Chris Byrd.

Look at the Poll, Wlad owns. LOL All this poll proves is that Mike Tyson is one of the most overrated fighters of all time. If that joke Buster Douglas can destroy prime Tyson than Vitali definately could as well. I've said it once and I will say it again....Vitali klitschko destroys prime Tyson in 8 rounds.:boxing:

=slicksouthpaw16;3000718]Its laughable how you talk about Lewis like he was shot when he fought Vitali, taking away from how well Vitali looked against a hall of famer. Lennox Lewis was still a dominate champion is knocking fighters out left and right. If he was so ''past his prime'', then why was he still champion? Lennox was never in wars, i would say that he was slightly past his prime, and thats kinda pushing it. He started to come on because Vitali had that cut, which is also why Vitali had to hold on. Who says that Tyson would hit Vitali as often as Lewis did? Lewis is almost as tall as Vitali and a great pure boxer, that is why he was able to hit Vitali that often. Have you seen anyone else hit Vitali that often? Tyson is alot shorter and in range of Vitali's punches, plus hes not a great pure boxer. He would be getting hit more than he is hitting. Did I say Lewis was "shot"...NO, I said he was 38 and past his prime and Vitali still lost. He was still "Champion" because the division sucked. Lewis had a tough fight with Bruno, came through. Tough fight with Mercer, came through. Lewis landed a brutal uppercut that had Vitali holding. Lewis started to come on. A great fighter knows how to get his second-wind. My point with Tyson is that Vitali would have to come down to fight him, which leaves a tall fighter exposed. Wlad's reach is 80' inches, despite being 6'7. Nobody was abe to hit Vitali that often because nobody else was as skilled as Lewis. It's like a young Tyson, how many times did he really get hit because of his head movement, and basing it on Vitali's speed of punch, it doesn't favor Vitali hitting him that often...Wlad has the shot to land more often. The point is that Tillis was never a good top fighter and Tyson fought life and death with. and looking at that fight, then looking at how Morrison torched Tillis really makes Tyson look bad. you are also ignoring the fact that Tyson later wrote that he wanted to quit in that fight from all of the body shots that he was taking, some observers made a case that the decision should have went to Tillis. again, this is PRIME Tyson that we are talking about. what happened? Its laughable how people compare Tyson to the all time greats, would Ali, Foreman, Johnson, or any of the other greats have a close fight with quick Tillis? please. Again, you exaggeration is amazing: "Life and Death" :nonono: It's called he wasn't sure he could make it the distance so he was questioning the entire time and on cruise control. Tyson said he wanted to "quit."? Tyson has said fighters want to quit but they push past it. Get it right. Vitali quit against Byrd, don't forget. And this wasn't a prime Tyson...he was still coming into himself. He was what 19, almost 20 and still gaining experience. And have we forgot that Tommy was a big puncher? Look at Wlad vs. Peter. Peter was stunned once, towards the end, yet it was McCline who put him down a few times and almost had him out. See the point? He knocked Tyson 5 feet back wards and rocked him. Imagine what he would have done if he would have opened up earlier in the fight? and it sounds like an excuse when you said ''Tyson was not expecting it''. please, many fighters get knocked out and do not expect the punch that did it. your point? and if someone is holding you, just push them off and go back to work, thats what a fighter does. He stunned him, but Tyson fought back like he did against Ruddock. The point I made is that Smith wasn't opening up, which is why Tyson got comfortable in thinking Smith wasn't going to hit. Remember Bruno and Ruddock when they stunned Mike, what happened? Mike fought back, adjusted and controlled the fight. Mike needs you to throw back to have an openining to hit. For pushing off a bigger, stronger fighter, through the course of a fight is absurd and will only wear you out. You let the ref break you up and don't expend the energy. This isn't some lower weight class bullshit, this is the HW division where a fighter can out-weigh you by a lot. Tyson was 215-220, Smith was 230+ and was strong. LOL! Its laughable how you try making Ruddock seem shot to take away from him being torched by Lennox and Morrison. He was shot in the Morrison fight, he actaully put up a pretty good fight before he was stopped. where was he shot? He was not shot when he fought Lewis either. It was not what he was not doing to Lennox, it was Lennox was doing to him. This is what Ruddock said. So you are telling me you never seen a fighter get whooped in a fight, especially going one after the other against a power puncher, and not be the same in future fights? Unless you are Ruddock, I suggest you keep quite. Punch down? that means that Tyson is taylor made for him. He has a short fight that is in range of his punches and does not have the best defense in the world. like i said before, Tyson would be getting hit a lot more than he is hitiing. and since when have you seen someone hit Vitali's body at will? it has never happened. He has an underrated defense and is a great pure boxer. and you getting Vitali mixed up with Wladimir. Wladimir is pencil stiff. Vitali is loose and fluent with his boxing, i dont know where you get the impression that he is stiff. Who doesn't have the best defense in the World, a young-Tyson??? Please tell me you are joking...Tyson had a very good defense. You missed the point again...No, he is not "taylor made for him." When you punch down your hands are down south, far away from getting your hands back to block, with your body tilted towards down at the fighter, leaving you exposed for a fighter as small as Tyson, who would only fight smaller, in order to make Vitali drop even lower. Yes, I see your point, Vitai isn't stiff, he is another Ali.:nonono: It's what Tyson does good that helps him. His head-movement, speed in body, timing and combinations and power in both hands help him. Its laughable how you say that Vitali quits when the thread starter says PRIME, meaning that its when they fight at thier 100% best. He quit when he his shoulder have out and thats an injury, so that is not needed in this debate. he was well ahead on the score cards against a 2 time world Heavyweight champion in Chris Byrd before it happened. We can use Tyson not having heart in this debate because he never had heart to begin with. Vitail didn't always have injuries so we can thorw that quiting stuff out. Besides, after the Byrd fight, Vitali promised his fans that he would never quit again. did he quit against Lennox? no, he didn't. And Tyson DID look terrible against Ruddock when you look at what Morrison and Lennox did to him. When you take away all of the press and hype, Tyson is just an average fighter. Seems to me like you are believing the hype along with everyone else. Soooo, Vitali wasn't at his best against Byrd? Didn't know Vitali wasn't a finished product. Did he have personal problems that he would work out? Fighters fight with injuries. Fighters have fought with broken hands, ribs, torn shoulder, jaw, etc. How didn't Tyson have heart, please explain? LOL! am i missing something? wow, i didn't know that Tyson fought a prime 6'8 2 time world champion with a good chin, good stamina, great power and chin? He fought a 6'5 fighter. Vitali is 6'7. For reach, Vitali has an 80' inch reach...Tyson's fought longer. Vitali doesn't have devastating power...heavy handed power, but not devastating. what does Vitali not hitting has as Wlad has to do with anything? Vitali has a knockout ratio of over 90%. His record is 35-2-33 knockouts with both knockouts being flukes and not REAL losses. Lennox Lewis was labled to having a weak chin but his chin isn't weak at all. When he was ready and prepared to take a good shot, he has showed a good chin. just look at the Mercer, Tua, Bruno, and Vitali fights. They all hit him and didn't take him out. you can tell how hard Vitali hits because you heard a loud ''snap'' when he was hitting Lewis. Lennox doesn't have a weak chin, but it isn't Iron either. Vitali wears his opponents out with his heavy hands, which is a credit to him.

someone please tell me how Vitali is pencil stiff? pXQPwyaY604

Its laughable how you talk about Lewis like he was shot when he fought Vitali, taking away from how well Vitali looked against a hall of famer. Lennox Lewis was still a dominate champion is knocking fighters out left and right. If he was so ''past his prime'', then why was he still champion? Lennox was never in wars, i would say that he was slightly past his prime, and thats kinda pushing it. He started to come on because Vitali had that cut, which is also why Vitali had to hold on. Who says that Tyson would hit Vitali as often as Lewis did? Lewis is almost as tall as Vitali and a great pure boxer, that is why he was able to hit Vitali that often. Have you seen anyone else hit Vitali that often? Tyson is alot shorter and in range of Vitali's punches, plus hes not a great pure boxer. He would be getting hit more than he is hitting. The point is that Tillis was never a good top fighter and Tyson fought life and death with. and looking at that fight, then looking at how Morrison torched Tillis really makes Tyson look bad. you are also ignoring the fact that Tyson later wrote that he wanted to quit in that fight from all of the body shots that he was taking, some observers made a case that the decision should have went to Tillis. again, this is PRIME Tyson that we are talking about. what happened? Its laughable how people compare Tyson to the all time greats, would Ali, Foreman, Johnson, or any of the other greats have a close fight with quick Tillis? please. He knocked Tyson 5 feet back wards and rocked him. Imagine what he would have done if he would have opened up earlier in the fight? and it sounds like an excuse when you said ''Tyson was not expecting it''. please, many fighters get knocked out and do not expect the punch that did it. your point? and if someone is holding you, just push them off and go back to work, thats what a fighter does. LOL! Its laughable how you try making Ruddock seem shot to take away from him being torched by Lennox and Morrison. He was shot in the Morrison fight, he actaully put up a pretty good fight before he was stopped. where was he shot? He was not shot when he fought Lewis either. It was not what he was not doing to Lennox, it was Lennox was doing to him. Punch down? that means that Tyson is taylor made for him. He has a short fight that is in range of his punches and does not have the best defense in the world. like i said before, Tyson would be getting hit a lot more than he is hitiing. and since when have you seen someone hit Vitali's body at will? it has never happened. He has an underrated defense and is a great pure boxer. and you getting Vitali mixed up with Wladimir. Wladimir is pencil stiff. Vitali is loose and fluent with his boxing, i dont know where you get the impression that he is stiff. Its laughable how you say that Vitali quits when the thread starter says PRIME, meaning that its when they fight at thier 100% best. He quit when he his shoulder have out and thats an injury, so that is not needed in this debate. he was well ahead on the score cards against a 2 time world Heavyweight champion in Chris Byrd before it happened. We can use Tyson not having heart in this debate because he never had heart to begin with. Vitail didn't always have injuries so we can thorw that quiting stuff out. Besides, after the Byrd fight, Vitali promised his fans that he would never quit again. did he quit against Lennox? no, he didn't. And Tyson DID look terrible against Ruddock when you look at what Morrison and Lennox did to him. When you take away all of the press and hype, Tyson is just an average fighter. Seems to me like you are believing the hype along with everyone else. LOL! am i missing something? wow, i didn't know that Tyson fought a prime 6'8 2 time world champion with a good chin, good stamina, great power and chin? what does Vitali not hitting has as Wlad has to do with anything? Vitali has a knockout ratio of over 90%. His record is 35-2-33 knockouts with both knockouts being flukes and not REAL losses. Lennox Lewis was labled to having a weak chin but his chin isn't weak at all. When he was ready and prepared to take a good shot, he has showed a good chin. just look at the Mercer, Tua, Bruno, and Vitali fights. They all hit him and didn't take him out. you can tell how hard Vitali hits because you heard a loud ''snap'' when he was hitting Lewis. you say tyson would be in range of vitali's shots and would be getting hit more than hitting because he is shorter, come on mike was shorter than just about everyone he fought and remember we're talking about a prime tyson, one of the hardest to hit heavyweights ever

yeah holmes was just past his best in 88 like i said he gave holyfield a tough night 4 years later, but tyson was just 21 and its the way in which he beat holmes, holmes with his vastly greater experience and just 3 years departed from his reign as champion was battered senseless, so no, we dont all know that a prime holmes would have beaten tyson Atlas seemed to indicate it wouldn't have mattered what stage Holmes was in, Tyson would still beat him because of a flaw in Holmes. Remember, it is about being able to expose the flaw in the fighter and according to Atlas, Mike was able to do something at that time that Holmes always had problems with...Holmes would drop his left after he jabbed and didn't move his head well, and Mike, at that point, was great at timing punches and could land the right hand, something Holmes was vulnerable to, which even slow Shavers was able to land, except, unlike Tyson, he wasn't fast enough, aggressive enough, talented enough to finish. I think it would be a good fight and never sold on these "fantasy" fights when it’s this close.

Benny Leonard;3000602]lewis was 38 years old. Lewis wasn't even in his prime against Tyson, and people were saying it, including Larry Merch. Lewis was still a good fighter, true, but he was clearly not into it mentally nor physically. You can peak as a fighter mentally and then decline. Foreman actually mentioned this with Frazier, when Joe beat Ali, that was his peak. Lewis lasted as long as he did because he still had the goal of unifying and then taking out Tyson. Vitali was up on the score-cards, true, but Lewis was starting to come on, which is also how Vitali got that nasty cut. It was Vitali that was holding on before the bell rang which would be the final round. Its laughable how you talk about Lewis like he was shot when he fought Vitali, taking away from how well Vitali looked against a hall of famer. Lennox Lewis was still a dominate champion and knocking fighters out left and right. If he was so ''past his prime'', then why was he still champion? Lennox was never in wars, i would say that he was slightly past his prime, and thats kinda pushing it. He started to come on because Vitali had that cut, which is also why Vitali had to hold on. Who says that Tyson would hit Vitali as often as Lewis did? Lewis is almost as tall as Vitali and a great pure boxer, that is why he was able to hit Vitali that often. Have you seen anyone else hit Vitali that often? Tyson is alot shorter and in range of Vitali's punches, plus hes not a great pure boxer. He would be getting hit more than he is hitting. He couldn't knockout Tillis early, and knew it. Tillis was holding, something the others weren't really able to do. When Tyson knew he wasn't going to finish him off early, he went into neutral to make sure he could finish. You wiill also see as Tyson continues to fight, he becomes a more patient fighter. Even Rooney told him to finish off Thomas, but Mike told him he wanted to continue to break Pinky down a bit more before finishing him off. And, should we go down the list of fighters that were "blown out" by one fighter but not another? The point is that Tillis was never a good top fighter and Tyson fought life and death with. and looking at that fight, then looking at how Morrison torched Tillis really makes Tyson look bad. you are also ignoring the fact that Tyson later wrote that he wanted to quit in that fight from all of the body shots that he was taking, some observers made a case that the decision should have went to Tillis. again, this is PRIME Tyson that we are talking about. what happened? Its laughable how people compare Tyson to the all time greats, would Ali, Foreman, Johnson, or any of the other greats have a close fight with quick Tillis? please. Wow, nice exaggeration. He stunned Tyson towards the end, similar to the way Ruddock was able to do, but he wasn't out on his feet. You don't cover up and then fight back/forward if you are "out on your feet." I don't think Tyson was expecting it either since it was towards the end of the fight and Smith wasn't throwing much and looked like he was going to coast to a UD loss. Smith was holding, ran away, simple as that. You cannot fight when someone is holding, and a 5'11, 220 pound Tyson would be stupid to try to wreste it out with a much bigger, stronger man through the course of a fight. He knocked Tyson 5 feet back wards and rocked him. Imagine what he would have done if he would have opened up earlier in the fight? and it sounds like an excuse when you said ''Tyson was not expecting it''. please, many fighters get knocked out and do not expect the punch that did it. your point? and if someone is holding you, just push them off and go back to work, thats what a fighter does. Are you serious? Are you in Ruddock's body? Razor was being hit by Tyson, over and over, in two fights. He had bruised ribs and a broken Jaw in the second fight. One fight, that is all it takes to hurt a fighter mentally and physically. LOL! Its laughable how you try making Ruddock seem shot to take away from him being torched by Lennox and Morrison. He was shot in the Morrison fight, he actaully put up a pretty good fight before he was stopped. where was he shot? He was not shot when he fought Lewis either. It was not what he was not doing to Lennox, it was Lennox was doing to him. Nobody made him pay for it because he fought nobodies. It works both ways. He still fought stiff up top, despite being able to move around the ring and being able to be somewhat elusive. It's like taking a pencil and moving it around, but the pencil still is stiff. Vitali would still have to punch down, and bring himself lower than he usually fights, which makes it harder and makes him exposed. Emmanuel mentioned this was the problem with tall fighters and a reason why he was concerned with Lewis fighting smaller fighters. Bruno also mentioned this as a reason why it was so tough to fight Tyson when you are tall. Bruno was scared to death of Tyson. and Punch down? that means that Tyson is taylor made for him. He has a short fight that is in range of his punches and does not have the best defense in the world. like i said before, Tyson would be getting hit a lot more than he is hitiing. and since when have you seen someone hit Vitali's body at will? it has never happened. He has an underrated defense and is a great pure boxer. and you getting Vitali mixed up with Wladimir. Wladimir is pencil stiff. Vitali is loose and fluent with his boxing, i dont know where you get the impression that he is stiff. Vitali quit, how about that? When did Tyson break down when he was under Rooney? And even without, he didn't do bad against Ruddock k. Its laughable how you say that Vitali quits when the thread starter says PRIME, meaning that its when they fight at thier 100% best. He quit when he his shoulder gave out and thats an injury, so that is not needed in this debate. he was well ahead on the score cards against a 2 time world Heavyweight champion in Chris Byrd before it happened. We can use Tyson not having heart in this debate because he never had heart to begin with. Vitail didn't always have injuries so we can thorw that quiting stuff out. Besides, after the Byrd fight, Vitali promised his fans that he would never quit again. did he quit against Lennox? no, he didn't. And Tyson DID look terrible against Ruddock when you look at what Morrison and Lennox did to him. When you take away all of the press and hype, Tyson is just an average fighter. Seems to me like you are believing the hype along with everyone else. I thought I made mention that Tyson fought nobody exactly like Vitali, but he did fight someone at least closer. LOL! am i missing something? wow, i didn't know that Tyson fought a prime 6'8 2 time world champion with a good chin, good stamina, great power and chin? Vitali's power and stamina could be questioned a bit. I question Tyson's as well. I don't think Vitali hits as hard as Wlad. When a big man is able to control a fight, he is able to control his stamina, but when they are pressured faster than they are used to, the tank can empty out fast. This is also one of the concerns I have every time I am watching Wlad. For his power, he is a big puncher, but not devastating as you make him out to be...neither is Tyson. Vitali was landing shot after shot on Lewis and couldn't take him out...why? what does Vitali not hitting has as Wlad has to do with anything? Vitali has a knockout ratio of over 90%. His record is 35-2-33 knockouts with both knockouts being flukes and not REAL losses. Lennox Lewis was labled to having a weak chin but his chin isn't weak at all. When he was ready and prepared to take a good shot, he has showed a good chin. just look at the Mercer, Tua, Bruno, and Vitali fights. They all hit him and didn't take him out. you can tell how hard Vitali hits because you heard a loud ''snap'' when he was hitting Lewis.

Holmes? Clearly past his peak. There is no significance for the simple fact that we all know that prime Holmes would have beaten Tyson. Even if Tillis was younger when he fought Tyson, Tillis was never a great contender or even a champion. That same Larry Holmes also lost to Oliver Mccall. Is MCcall a great fighter now? yeah holmes was just past his best in 88 like i said he gave holyfield a tough night 4 years later, but tyson was just 21 and its the way in which he beat holmes, holmes with his vastly greater experience and just 3 years departed from his reign as champion was battered senseless, so no, we dont all know that a prime holmes would have beaten tyson

Tyson by death.

didn't Chris Byrd stop Vitali? :kiss: