Calzaghe-Kessler: I was wrong

I always thought that P4P was around 70% who you WOULD beat and 30% who you HAVE beat. 3) Takes risks, ermm im not sure about that, jones offered him out this year and he declined, he doesnt wanna go to america and fight over there, his last 3 fights were Bika, Manfredo and Kessler, harldy what id call taking risks, and Manfredo is not a natural 168 pounder. Calzaghe is a risk taker DURING fights. Like in the final rounds last night when he knew he had it won, but kept brawling regardless. Going over to America to fight Jones at the moment isnt a risk, its stupidity. It WOULDNT do good business. Jones ISNT a good draw at the moment. If Calzaghe won he WOULDNT get that much credit for it and yet for all that Jones is still a risky fight for ANY of the big fighters because nobody knows how much ability he still has left. Hence why Jones is not getting any of the big fights at the moment. 4) Hopkins has fought his fair share of bums and dodged jones, but, he has fought way more skilled guys than Calzaghe has, Taylor x2,Winky, Tarver,De La Hoya, Roy Jones, Felix trinidad, now not all of those guys where his weight, but its still alot more impressive than a win over kessler, unless you think Kessler is in the same leauge as guys like De La Hoya. Yeah, but he lost mate. Wright - Blown up. De La Hoya - Blown Up. Trinidad - Blown up. Tarver - Overrated. Jones & Taylor...actually fucking BEAT him. Its pretty easy to discredit things in this way. Kessler was a dominant force in Calzaghe's and his own NATURAL division. 3 times Hopkins has fought a dominant force in their natural division and lost. Im not saying he isnt there or thereabouts in the p4p list, but number 3 is too much imo. Meh, I'd say 3 is about right. I cant think of many more than 2 other boxers who could beat Calzaghe if they were in his weight division.

No, not about the outcome. I was very confident that Calzaghe would win. I predicted a late stoppage in a fit of bravado but really I knew this was going to points and that it would be a relatively wide UD. I also knew that Calzaghe was that damn good. Best British boxer of his generation and you have to have him pretty high in the all-time list for this island. What I was wrong about was Kessler. Before the fight I couldn't see how he could get to Calzaghe but I'm telling you he must have some serious skills to land the jab and some very heavy right hands and uppercuts on the old man. No-one since Reid in the last 8 years has made a fight against Calzaghe competitive and Kessler undoubtedly did so. This might sounds daft but, if it's possible, Kessler might have pushed himself into the P4P reckoning even in defeat, and a conclusive one at that. I was also very impressed with him after the fight in which he acted as he had during the buildup - like a class act. He made a fan out of me last night and I'll certainly be following his career with renewed interest from now on. As for the future, I see Kessler dominating at 168 for as long as he wants. No-one will touch him there, certainly not anyone currently in the division and the likes of Pavlik and Taylor have little to no chance against him if they come up. Miranda will get knocked out of the ring in 30 seconds flat. Calzaghe - it's MSG and Hopkins in the spring. I'll be there for that. IMO he cemented his position in the top 3 P4P and possibly in #2 now. No-one can doubt him now. No-one. nice post but do you really think hopkins will fight calzaghe knowing the battering he will recieve.

Calling other posters "dumb" and then not knowing how to spell "dumb"... always a self-pwnage speciality. :lol1: You mean someone who doesn't have a different opinion to you, right? I called him 'Dum' not Dumb, ever heard of shorthand? haha. Ermm nah, im talking about the kind of people who can actually work out the following. Yes Jones, depending on the next fight i think Jones could be a credible threat, unless you think Peter Manfredo is a more credible threat than Roy Jones Jr. :lol1: Only a complete retard wouldnt give Hopkins credit for Fighting Roy Jones (lost) Tarver (won) Taylor (lost) Glen Johnson ( think he beat Johnson didnt he?) Winky (won) De la hoya (Fair enough, he couldnt lose) and Trindad (blown up) But then put joe calzaghe p4p number 3 in the world for fighting Kessler, Lacy Eubanks and who else that actually means anything, Robin reid, Richie Woodhall, your saying their in the same league as Tarver, Jones, Johnson etc :lol1: Unless your saying Joe calzaghe is more skilled than Bernard Hopkins (lol) Rafeal Marquez (shocking) Winky (you'd have to be an idiot) and Mosley ( i can see why some would say calzaghe has more skills than Shane) Then how can he be p4p number 3? Simple really.

Nope of course not, do you think joe calzaghe has better boxing skills than, Mayweather,The Marquez Brothers and Winky? Even Mosley? Think about it. Yes. I also think he's a smarter boxer and a better fighter. Maybe not Mayweather. Oh and grow up and leave the petulant shit at the door.

Kessler is a great fighter and didn't disappoint me one bit even in defeat. He just fought a guy whose style was all wrong for him and spoiled his solid tools. Kessler still beats everyone else at 160-168 in my opinion except Joe Calzaghe. Kessler went 12 with a truly special fighter and even won a few of the early and late rounds, I had it 8-4 myself. In no way did Calzaghe blow out Kessler, but merely out-smarted and out-styled him. Kessler is a solid fighter and he still cracked my 9-10 spot lb. 4 lb. regardless of him losing last night.

Winky and especially Hopkins are declining. I have watched the fight between the two and sorry, didnt look like 2 p4p Top5 fighters to me. Rafael Marquez? Yes, a great fighter, good acomplishments but Calzaghe is p4p more skilled. These small kid fighters in the lower division always look unbelievable but imo Calzaghe is p4p the better fighter. No way can i accept Calzaghe has better boxing skills than Rafeal Marquez, but keep your opinion, boxingscene is too emotional, a guy wins one fight against a decent fighter and he becomes the number 3 p4p in the world, disagree, and some dum special needs kid with too much time on his hands keeps hitting you with red K. I always have to wait till guys like Run W Knives post before i can acutally engage in a sensible debate. Anyways, Just to re-iterate im not saying calzaghe doesnt have skill, or that is not a p4p fighter, but number 3 is a step too far. :werd:

Facts: - Calzaghe has'nt lost a fight since 1993 - 10 Years as a World Champion - Defended his title 21 Times - Beaten Eubank, Lacy, Veit, Kessler, and other good fighters - Beaten 7 World Champions - Kessler is a very good fighter and is calzaghe's biggest win - Boxing's current longest reigning world champion - Takes risks and fights Young/Strong champions at his WEIGHT CLASS unlike *Cough* Hopkins who fights overblown welterweights and light middleweights - The only FIGHTER at supermiddleweight to have all Four belts at one time or another. WBA/WBO/IBF/WBC - Current Unified champion. 1)Kessler is ok, i told you many times Calzaghe would take him out, and i was right, dont try and hype calzaghe cos he took care of a guy who was never in his league, after you told us all Kessler had a chance. I told ages ago, Kessler aint in Calzaghe's league. 2) Lacy was good and prime when joe beat him, he got credit for that, btw, i predicated joe to win that too. 3) Takes risks, ermm im not sure about that, jones offered him out this year and he declined, he doesnt wanna go to america and fight over there, his last 3 fights were Bika, Manfredo and Kessler, harldy what id call taking risks, and Manfredo is not a natural 168 pounder. 4) Hopkins has fought his fair share of bums and dodged jones, but, he has fought way more skilled guys than Calzaghe has, Taylor x2,Winky, Tarver,De La Hoya, Roy Jones, Felix trinidad, now not all of those guys where his weight, but its still alot more impressive than a win over kessler, unless you think Kessler is in the same leauge as guys like De La Hoya 5) Wonjamking made about 20 defences too, is he number 3 p4p too? come on 6) Supermiddleweight has been poor for a while now, i think Joe should have moved to 175 ages ago. Im not saying he isnt there or thereabouts in the p4p list, but number 3 is too much imo.

I think someone has reading problems, i said, Cotto's resume isnt much worse than Calzaghe's, i didnt say it was better. Ermm, so Cotto fights Mosley and Judah back to back, Calzaghe fights Manfredo and Kessler back to back, Kessler and excellent fighter? Nope. A solid one yes, i didnt know beating libero andrade makes you excellent, Im sorry i cant take anyone seriously who thinks calzaghe is more Skilled and has fought better guys than Rafeal Marquez and Winky Wright, even Hopkins has fought better names and was/is more skilled , even though style wise the hopkins fight may favor calzaghe (cos the most skilled fighter doesnt always win) Winky and especially Hopkins are declining. I have watched the fight between the two and sorry, didnt look like 2 p4p Top5 fighters to me. Rafael Marquez? Yes, a great fighter, good acomplishments but Calzaghe is p4p more skilled. These small kid fighters in the lower division always look unbelievable but imo Calzaghe is p4p the better fighter.

You are just looking at the resumes, but face it, Calzaghe is p4p one of the most skilled fighters and Cotto is NOT above him in p4p!! Cotto has beaten better fights than Calzaghe?? The best fighter Cotto has beaten is Judah, besides that he has not faced elite fighters, and Judah is far away of a Topp4p fighter. Dont tell me thats an better accomplishment than what did Calzaghe EVEN before yesterdays fight against Kessler who turned out to be an excellent fighter!! Calzaghe has not fought manny big stars, but he has faced manny good fighters and hes unbeaten in over 40 fights and has a verry long title reign. Of course, i think Mayweather and Pacman are still above Calzaghe, but Calzaghe is Nr.3 I think someone has reading problems, i said, Cotto's resume isnt much worse than Calzaghe's, i didnt say it was better. Ermm, so Cotto fights Mosley and Judah back to back, Calzaghe fights Manfredo and Kessler back to back, Kessler and excellent fighter? Nope. A solid one yes, i didnt know beating libero andrade makes you excellent, Im sorry i cant take anyone seriously who thinks calzaghe is more Skilled and has fought better guys than Rafeal Marquez and Winky Wright, even Hopkins has fought better names and was/is more skilled , even though style wise the hopkins fight may favor calzaghe (cos the most skilled fighter doesnt always win)

awesome win for Joe, when he started boxing behind his jab he did well. Dropping his hands was stupid though. No points for being macho.

TECHNICAL SKILL Have something to chew on here! You have constantly disrespected Calzaghe and now, even faced with inarguable evidence willnot swallow your pride. You want to be right so much that you cant see whats in front of your face. Kessler has two belts, TWO! He aint no bum! Jeff Lacy was rated as one of the best to come out of the states. As a young man, calzaghe put Eubank on the floor. Why does he HAVE to fight in America, he is the champ, its his belt (or 4) Get a grip What evidence,lol, Valuev was nearly 43-0 and wba world champion, does that make him a world class fighter. Sven Ottke, look how many belts he won and defences he made, is he better than calzaghe? :lol1: Next time you talk shit, drink a glass of domestos before hand, means i dont have to put up with the smell.

Nope of course not, do you think joe calzaghe has better boxing skills than, Mayweather,The Marquez Brothers and Winky? Even Mosley? Think about it. yeah he has bthan Winky & Mosley ,Mosley is'nt a great Boxer his speed makes him the fighter he is ,who has Mosley beat of great note Dela Hoya he was outclassed badly by Winky twice beaten easily by Forrest and nearly twice & Dela Hoya beat him in the 2nd fight what other Elite fighters has Mosley beat

Calzaghe is good, very good, but people just overdo him so much, there are a few insightful people on this site, who for months were trying to explain that Kessler is and was hype, a good solid fighter, who hasnt fought anyone and has two belts he really shouldnt. The whole thing got out of hand when a few people actually thought Kessler would win, if you look at my posts from months back i was saying this was an easy win for calzaghe, and that Kessler is overrated. Now people are saying calzaghe is top 3 p4p, when he has never fought anyone on the p4p list in 10 years of boxing, yet this year around 8 guys on the P4P list fought each other and they arent as good as him? :lol1: Seriously, next week Cotto vs Mosely, two p4p guys fighting each other again compare Cotto's resume to calzaghe entire resume, even at this stage in his career cotto has fought 2 guys who have been p4p (when he fights mosely next week) and his resume isn't much worse than calzaghe's. So why am i seeing guys saying Joe is P4P number one? a little perspective wouldnt go a miss you know. You are just looking at the resumes, but face it, Calzaghe is p4p one of the most skilled fighters and Cotto is NOT above him in p4p!! Cotto has beaten better fights than Calzaghe?? The best fighter Cotto has beaten is Judah, besides that he has not faced elite fighters, and Judah is far away of a Topp4p fighter. Dont tell me thats an better accomplishment than what did Calzaghe EVEN before yesterdays fight against Kessler who turned out to be an excellent fighter!! I like Cotto verry much hes one of my faves but hes not an p4p top fighter yet and i dont know if he ever will be cause IMO he looks beatable. If he beats Mosley though i put him on Nr.5 or 6 p4p, but Mosley also is getting old is not 100% the fighter he once was. Calzaghe has not fought manny big stars, but he has faced manny good fighters and hes unbeaten in over 40 fights and has a verry long title reign. Of course, i think Mayweather and Pacman are still above Calzaghe, but Calzaghe is Nr.3 And Winkys time is over, He was once verry high p4p but not anymore IMO.

So P4P ranking is determined by who you have beaten? I think I see a flaw here. Nope of course not, do you think joe calzaghe has better boxing skills than, Mayweather,The Marquez Brothers and Winky? Even Mosley? Think about it.

But then we get into incestuous rankings because you're regarding P4P exponents (oh, and please stop ":lol1:" at the end of every point you make, it's really crass and annoying) on the strength of them beating other P4P exponents. Look at Winky Wright. Now, I like Winky, but he got there after beating an out-of-his-natural-weight-class Shane Mosley, then consolodated that by beating an always technically crap Tito. Since then, okay, he beat Jermain Taylor but he was bashed around by old man Hopkins. I mean... are you REALLY telling me you don't think Joe Blow could beat Wanky Wrong? So lets work this one out then mate. In 10 years Calzaghe these are the best 3 fighters Calzaghe has fought Eubank (Shot) Kessler (lol) Lacy (was dangerous) You would put him on a par with a guy like Winky Wright who has Fought Taylor, Hopkins, Mosley, Trinidad,:lol1: Fair enough mosely was out of his depth and trinidad was old, but Calzaghe fights the likes of Kabery Salem, Got knocked down by mitchell and that other bum no one cares about, Sakio Bika, Tocker Pudwill and all these legendary names, And you think Pound for Pound calzaghe deserves to be higher up on the pound for pound list? And a few people thought wright should have got the nod over hopkins, point being, Of course calzaghe would most likely take winky at 170+, but thats stupid but only cos winky would be out of his depth, i dont think calzaghe has better boxing skills than Winky Wright, he hasn't fought better oppostion than winky wright, and he hasnt beaten better fighters than winky wright. enjoy. haha.

No, not about the outcome. I was very confident that Calzaghe would win. I predicted a late stoppage in a fit of bravado but really I knew this was going to points and that it would be a relatively wide UD. I also knew that Calzaghe was that damn good. Best British boxer of his generation and you have to have him pretty high in the all-time list for this island. What I was wrong about was Kessler. Before the fight I couldn't see how he could get to Calzaghe but I'm telling you he must have some serious skills to land the jab and some very heavy right hands and uppercuts on the old man. No-one since Reid in the last 8 years has made a fight against Calzaghe competitive and Kessler undoubtedly did so. This might sounds daft but, if it's possible, Kessler might have pushed himself into the P4P reckoning even in defeat, and a conclusive one at that. I was also very impressed with him after the fight in which he acted as he had during the buildup - like a class act. He made a fan out of me last night and I'll certainly be following his career with renewed interest from now on. As for the future, I see Kessler dominating at 168 for as long as he wants. No-one will touch him there, certainly not anyone currently in the division and the likes of Pavlik and Taylor have little to no chance against him if they come up. Miranda will get knocked out of the ring in 30 seconds flat. Calzaghe - it's MSG and Hopkins in the spring. I'll be there for that. IMO he cemented his position in the top 3 P4P and possibly in #2 now. No-one can doubt him now. No-one. I was also not suprised with the outcome. I have not seen the fight yet but heard it was fantastic. But i doubt Miranda would get knocked out in 30 seconds, bullshit. Who has Kessler knocked out in the first round that he might do it against Miranda who looked better in his first supermiddleweight bout as in his middleweight fights? Miranda is faster at supermiddle and hes getting better, has a fast good jab and long arms, hes an good fighter. Kessler would most definately beat him, propably stop him, but in 30 seconds?? Common man!! Miranda is a tough SOB and a good fighter. Once Calzaghe retires, Kessler will shurely be the Nr1 at the division, propably for a long time since hes just 28 years old.

But then we get into incestuous rankings because you're regarding P4P exponents (oh, and please stop ":lol1:" at the end of every point you make, it's really crass and annoying) on the strength of them beating other P4P exponents. Look at Winky Wright. Now, I like Winky, but he got there after beating an out-of-his-natural-weight-class Shane Mosley, then consolodated that by beating an always technically crap Tito. Since then, okay, he beat Jermain Taylor but he was bashed around by old man Hopkins. I mean... are you REALLY telling me you don't think Joe Blow could beat Wanky Wrong? _____________________________________________________ Exactly Cotto beat Judah ,it dont make Cotto great because he beat a guy who was in the top 10 p4p list at 1 point , we all know Judah is a bum and clearly not as good as he was how many years ago

Just because something is HYOPTHETICAL, doesnt mean some degree of Logic should be applied to it. Look at calzaghe's resume and the guys he has beaten, now take the guys in the top 10 p4p and look at the guys they have beaten, how does beating Kessler make you top 3 p4p, compared with the other massive fights that have taken place this year and will take place. :lol1: resumes are always questionable btw. i mean beating an out of prime name doesn't mean that the opponent is truely more credible than someone who had or was to go and get a belt.

Just because something is HYOPTHETICAL, doesnt mean some degree of Logic should be applied to it. Look at calzaghe's resume and the guys he has beaten, now take the guys in the top 10 p4p and look at the guys they have beaten, how does beating Kessler make you top 3 p4p, compared with the other massive fights that have taken place this year and will take place. :lol1: just because you don't know who is on his resume does not mean they aren't significant. some of them have held belts or went onto hold belts. i mean he won with what was put in front of him. schumacher would not have won 5 titles with a mclaren btw :p joe is an under achiever in terms of who he has fought, but he is in my mind no doubt a great boxer. i mean he has beaten up some fighters badly, anbd on that night he would have given any prime jones a fight.

So P4P ranking is determined by who you have beaten? I think I see a flaw here.